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FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling


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17 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

Yes, Ed Karl and my father were good friends.  That was my "in" (along with being a writer for the glossy Wrestling's Main Event magazine). All of those names bring back good memories for me, too. It's really nice that someone remembers our show!

The Wrestling's Main Event part is what appeals to me.  That's awesome.

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1 hour ago, BobbyWhioux said:

and, conversely, the handful of guys who do take that more mercenary approach? 

Warrior, Goldberg, Brock "Why would I watch the show, Paul?" Lesnar?

Those are the guys who actually got/get over on Vince in contracts, again and again.  And get booked above the Dream Job Good Soldiers again and again. Oh sure, they get tarred with that "doesn't have passion for the business!" brush, but that kinda just exposes what a con job that idea is.

Vince has enough weird psychology going to that Dr. Sidney M. Basil could work on him for years and not make a dent.  One of his odd peculiarities is that he really likes and wants the wrestlers who don't give a shit and don't need him.  He doesn't respect the "marks" who want to be there.  He has to be able to "break" the rogues who don't.

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The problem for anyone challenging the status is that they probably get tied up in court for literal years, likely without a paycheck or the right to work somewhere else during all this, and given that WWE has the money and the high powered attorney, there's no guarantee you'd win, even if, to my amateur eyes, it looks like the law would clearly be on the talent's side.

Then you are out thousands of dollars in legal fees, haven't been paid for a couple years, and likely are blacklisted from the biggest and best paying company in the industry.

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Now we wait for some booster like Rollins to post a photo of himself with an Oreo as a snide comment on Meltzer. Or an Owens to do it in rebellion. If would be nice if everybody posted an Oreo because that would mean something, but there's your hopes of a union for you. 

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Oh, and the only way a mass walk out has a chance of working is if it's WrestleMania and it includes at least most of the main event talent.

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14 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

The problem for anyone challenging the status is that they probably get tied up in court for literal years, likely without a paycheck or the right to work somewhere else during all this, and given that WWE has the money and the high powered attorney, there's no guarantee you'd win, even if, to my amateur eyes, it looks like the law would clearly be on the talent's side.

Then you are out thousands of dollars in legal fees, haven't been paid for a couple years, and likely are blacklisted from the biggest and best paying company in the industry.

Exactly.  The U.S. legal system in a nutshell.  If your opponent is bigger and has deeper pockets, it doesn't matter if you're right or have a winning case.  They can stall so much Larry Zbyszko would be like, "damn, let's go already," until you've lost your ass in legal fees with nothing to show for it. 

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Hell, look how much money Colt Cabana ended up owing his lawyers after a lawsuit he was on the winning side of.

(Seriously, Dr Whatisname sued Colt and Punk, lost in court pretty decisively, and yet the two of them lost six figures each on legal fees. That's fucked up.)

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

One point cleared up (and unsurprising)

 

That's at least more reasonable, though it's not what Dave was saying last night when he and Alvarez brought this up.  A fair bit of the conversation was devoted to how talent would be punished if they ate out and took a group photo with the name of the steakhouse in the background.

I wonder what Dave's like if you know him personally.  There were a couple instances last night where he and Bryan had these odd stilted conversations and I felt like Dave was just impersonating a human being.  The bit where Dave asked Bryan where he would eat out at, and then went into this awkward monologue about how he knew what Bryan was going to say and planned to have a good joke ready but didn't have a good joke ready seemed like it came out of that new SyFy network show about the alien impersonating a doctor in a small town (sry, name escapes me at the moment).   

l

Edited by Eoae
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1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

That being said, I really, really hope this is all borne out of the Nia Jax hole thing where someone had to explain to Vince what brand ambassadorships are and why Nia could get outside pay for a joke he wrote.  

Wait, Vince wrote the "My Hole" line? It wasn't something Nia came up with herself? Is that a known fact, or speculation?

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23 minutes ago, Eoae said:

That's at least more reasonable, though it's not what Dave was saying last night when he and Alvarez brought this up.  A fair bit of the conversation was devoted to how talent would be punished if they ate out and took a group photo with the name of the steakhouse in the background.

Well again - which is kinda what I said in my summary of the radio show (and Dave brought up in the tweet) - as of last night, WWE talent thought that was the case and that was clearly Dave's source on the matter.

I mean they were using the Steakhouse example in the same lines as the aforementioned Oreo example and the car example that they also brought up. None of it was odd outside of the weird obsession with that one Steakhouse which I chalked up to be a California thing

Now how it was explained to WWE talent is a different story. It could have easily been a bad game of telephone and the person who talked to Dave had gotten it third hand from other werstlers instead of reading the directive sent out by WWE. Or it could have been the WWE being mush mouthed when actually telling talent about it

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Pretty sure WWE would just ignore them. Any real change won't happen until Vince is dead/retired, the company is sold, or the talent comes together for a walkout/union/class action lawsuit. 

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2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Didn't everyone have to wear Tap Out gear when the company a deal with them? 

IIRC, they weren't forced to wear it, but if they wanted to get out of the stupid "business attire when you travel" dress code, Tap Out gear was the only acceptable attire. 

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If Kevin Owens were to go AEW/NJPW how far could he push the Stunner gimmick?

Really all I want is a shirt that says:

"Kevin 3:6 Steen"

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The only other thing about the Tapout shirts that I remember is Gallows, Anderson, and others talking about how the fabric used for the Tapout shirts smelled like shit and would make your body smell the same.

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53 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Pretty sure WWE would just ignore them. Any real change won't happen until Vince is dead/retired, the company is sold, or the talent comes together for a walkout/union/class action lawsuit. 

I remember the story about Dancing with the Stars castmates being jaw-on-the-floor stunned when Stacy Kiebler told them about wrestlers' lack of benefits, trans, hotel, etc.  It was something they all took for granted, working in the entertainment field.  If Vince and the family decided to cash out and sell to NBC, Disney, whomever, I assume the reaction of the people in their benefits departments would be the same.  Having been a part of corporate mergers/acquisitions on both ends, oh to be a fly on the wall when, say, NBC HR meets with WWE HR to discuss the transfer of benefits.  WWE exec: "this is going to be easy.  They don't have any."  NBC exec: oh wtf seriously wtf

7 minutes ago, Craig H said:

The only other thing about the Tapout shirts that I remember is Gallows, Anderson, and others talking about how the fabric used for the Tapout shirts smelled like shit and would make your body smell the same.

But being true old school carnies, free gear is free gear!  😄

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5 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

For a) 1/3 the audience and b) 1/3 the roster size.  

I think the latter is way more important, especially right now. Now after the pandemic/when crowds come back, I expect some roster expansion which include spots for people who are indeed unhappy campers and available (or can find a way to become available). However, once that roster expansion ends and they get happy with what they have, you're going to be on the outside looking in unless you're a premium free agent.

5 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

If you're willing to give up the WWE paycheck you have to be good enough to get into their roster, which is no guarantee.  And then after that, well, you're going to Japan and all the costs associated there... or you're going to Impact/ROH and on down the line.

Not saying you're wrong, but there are other factors to consider for a pro grappler. 

It's pretty clear that you're going to have to be an enterprising individual for you to thrive outside WWE. Now people more closely familiar with WWE performers outside the ring would have a better gauge on who would or would not fit that description. If you don't fit that description, you should definitely stay put.

Re: Japan

I don't think anyone is going to Japan (before or post pandemic) that doesn't want to go to Japan OR more importantly, if one of the major companies doesn't want you there. It's not the Terry Gordy salad days anymore where a notable talent who should be in WWF or WCW just decides to work in Japan cause the money is great and the schedule isn't brutal. Like I imagine FTR goes to New Japan when things open back up cause (1) New Japan wants to beef up their tag division and (2) they stated in the past that's something they're interested in. The Good Brothers likely are headed there as well. There are likely some others that plan on going from IMPACT or AEW. If you're in WWE, feel like you're going nowhere or it's too restrictive, and possibly would have interest in going there, that's something that is definitely on the table. However, you have to go before that window closes.

The sooner you can get you release (that is if you can), the better it would be. If you're thinking about fulfilling one of these long term deals, the wrestling world might have flipped on its head entirely at the end of that 3-5 years. That's what WWE really depends on when they're negotiating with people. That said, the longer an AEW stays around, the more tempting it would be to sign with them and undercuts that little fear tactic. The reality lies somewhere in the middle cause these companies aren't going to take everyone and most of these people honestly don't mean very much outside WWE (hell, the ratings dip and the lack of ratings/overall interest in younger viewers for NXT shows they don't mean very much INSIDE WWE to begin with). 

If you don't feel like you can make it work (or you never worked indies before), you definitely should stay where you are. If you feel like there are legitimate opportunities out there, have some connections, and get your hustle on, why not leave if you can? Based on the recent history of WWE anyway, chances are you might wind up back there when everything is said and done. Having a break from that will probably help you deal with the bullshit if and when you go back.

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Wasn't there a mainstream media interview with Bayley - when Smackdown first moved to Fox, maybe? - where the topic of benefit packages and insurance came up and it quickly got awkward for everyone involved?

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3 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I remember the story about Dancing with the Stars castmates being jaw-on-the-floor stunned when Stacy Kiebler told them about wrestlers' lack of benefits, trans, hotel, etc.  It was something they all took for granted, working in the entertainment field.  If Vince and the family decided to cash out and sell to NBC, Disney, whomever, I assume the reaction of the people in their benefits departments would be the same.  Having been a part of corporate mergers/acquisitions on both ends, oh to be a fly on the wall when, say, NBC HR meets with WWE HR to discuss the transfer of benefits.  WWE exec: "this is going to be easy.  They don't have any."  NBC exec: oh wtf seriously wtf

 

Didn't Bayley have an (live?) interview on a talk show where the host was shocked about her having to drive from town to town and all Bayley could do was shrug and try to change the topic?

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31 minutes ago, Eoae said:

Wasn't there a mainstream media interview with Bayley - when Smackdown first moved to Fox, maybe? - where the topic of benefit packages and insurance came up and it quickly got awkward for everyone involved?

 

30 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Didn't Bayley have an (live?) interview on a talk show where the host was shocked about her having to drive from town to town and all Bayley could do was shrug and try to change the topic?

 

Apparently so!  😄

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The look on her face when her reality brushes up against what goes on in the bubble is still fantastic. As is Bayley trying to grin through questions she really doesn't want to respond to. 

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18 hours ago, odessasteps said:

If they replaced it with a Pillman v Liger, that’s a tough choice.

Say what you will about Bischoff as a creative but I doubt they've not went with that to start the show. I'm surprised it didn't get more time 

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