FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling

[DreamBroken]

21 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

With as big a Wrestling fans as they were I'm shocked Redman, Method Man, or Busta Rhymes never ended up on WWF tv in the late 90s, early 00s. Especially since Red and Meth were on a WWf album.

 

[Ziggy]

7 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

With as big a Wrestling fans as they were I'm shocked Redman, Method Man, or Busta Rhymes never ended up on WWF tv in the late 90s, early 00s. Especially since Red and Meth were on a WWf album.

I know MVP and Mia Yim are hug Wutang marks. The Beat Down Clan was basically Wrestlings Wutang. Also RZA is close with Batista. Most, if not all of the Wutang Clan members are wrestling fans and Redman would throw in wrestling references in is raps on occasion. The business right now is so willing to accept any celebrity thats remotely athletic with a big enough name. Outside of the fact that they're taking another wrestlers potential pay day, I don't have a problem with it. Most the celebrities that get to work actual matches are the ones who are big enough fans that it was something they've always wanted to do. And from a promoters stand point they probably hoped to stumble upon another Tyson/Austin  situation were they turn business around especially since wrestling isn't as socially relevant right now. WWE is trying to bring in Cardi B, I hope she does get involved. Seeing as she's the same age as alot of the women on the roster, I could see her hitting it off with a few of them and maybe leading to more crossover for some of them

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

6 hours ago, Ryan said:

That's a slight exaggeration. They're not really used and those machines are like in super seedy weird areas based on some quick googling. The only way to know for sure is to get @El Gran Gordi's views on it!

It's more than a "slight exaggeration" It is ridiculous ignorant bullshit. 

There is, however, definitely a subculture here that specializes in sexualizing and fetishizing very young women. I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but it certainly exists. Also not really sure if that has any relevance whatsoever w/r/t Scurl in New Japan.

Oh, and I also disagree with @NintendoLogic about Jim Neidhart. Like @Matt D I also felt a little disappointed when Tony K deflected the "Do you think Anvil was better than Hitman?" question. Undoubtedly, Bret had the better career and left behind the more impressive body of work, but I am always impressed by Neidhart when I watch old Hart Foundation matches, particularly pre title run stuff from '86 vs teams like the Killer Bees and Islanders. He was great in his role at that time. It's the small things, like his timing on interference spots:

 

Babyface Islanders are also an excellent,  probably underrated team, and '87 title run Foundation could be pretty good, too, despite being saddled with the Danny Davis stuff:

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by El Gran Gordi

[BobbyWhioux]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Use Jacques' name in Knoxville. JERRY ROBERTS FROM CANADA!

give him the the boom box and pornstache and I'm sold

 

 

[BobbyWhioux]

and Neidhart is absolutely a victim of the Wheat Or Chaff paradigm that gets unfairly imposed on all tag teams.  Yes, Bret turned out to be an all-time great. That does not mean Anvil must have been a slug

[The Natural]

Waited aged for this and WWE's finally released it. One of my favourite themes today.

Still remember this Cesaro theme fondly:

 

[Jiji]

I feel like the more I watch old TNA the more I start to think I've been duped thinking it was the shits this whole time. Don't get me wrong, a lot of it is silly or downright bad, but it's almost always entertaining. The above clip perfectly encapsulates the wonders of TNA. AJ taking a savage bump, disheveled Lex Luger a step away from getting caught up in Billy's t-shirts (which are too tight!), Abyss becoming the tag team champion by winning what appears to be a 1-on-1 tables match, child aged ref Posey now of AEW, and the GOATed announce pairing of all time sounding like they put their money on AJ. Everything here is great. 

[Phantom Lord]

I think I remember wishing back then that Lex would get it together for a run in TNA. He was still in shape (personal demons aside). He could have been beneficial to them had he given a shit. Then again he would have probably just been eventually used to put the NWA Title on Jarrett one way or another because all things TNA led to Jarrett.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I've seen a lot of the Hart Foundation run quite recently.  Bret is holding those matches together.  Anvil does a great job but has obvious limitations.  He works better on offense, he's shot out of a cannon but then fizzles out.  Bret works exceedingly well in whatever is asked of him. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

6 hours ago, Ziggy said:

WWE is trying to bring in Cardi B, I hope she does get involved. Seeing as she's the same age as alot of the women on the roster, I could see her hitting it off with a few of them and maybe leading to more crossover for some of them

I agree

[The Idiot King]

8 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

 

 

That's a lot of gross fun. Joey at one point notes that "this is the best Sabu's ever looked," which feels true. I wonder if this was in his run-up to being signed to WWECW, where he was also looked healthy and was doing great stuff. He's in good shape, hits his spots clean (relatively), and he and LA Park move at the right speed with each other. Very stabby and passionate. There's a really nice moment in this where LA Park has been taking an especially vicious ass-kicking, and the front row get a chant going for him.

It made me rewatch the Joe - Necro Butcher match and --  I heard a little bit about the backstory, and I see there's shoot stuff around with Necro Butcher talking about it, but has Joe ever said anything?

[Brian Fowler]

Anvil was also the personality of the team, especially in the early years.

[RIPPA]

Not surprising but the whole Network to Peacock is still a cluster

From the new WON

Quote

Regarding Peacock, the plan for Fast Lane on 3/21 is to be on both Peacock and the WWE Network. The original plan was for the WWE Network to be switched over to Peacock on 3/18. The complete switch is still scheduled prior to WrestleMania for the U.S. only where Peacock will be the only way to get the show. It’s been noted to us that Peacock is now well suited for live sports and at least at first, that will be the case with WWE as well. One person noted to us their EPL coverage is not good, since if you watch live, it has to be live, you can’t join in and start at the beginning, or pause or rewind during the live broadcast. The service has also had issues with getting replays up in a timely fashion. Sometimes they are immediate once the game is over and sometimes it takes hours. Also, originally I was told your WWE Network account would transfer over, but now it appears you will have to sign up with Peacock to move your account over. But all this changes and will likely continue to change until the launch

 

[NintendoLogic]

This match is a prime example of what I'm talking about. When Neidhart is the legal man, he supplies nothing but generic big man offense. And it's not like he does anything special on the apron. In fact, there are a couple of spots that look like clear setups for him to interfere, but he either runs in late or doesn't run it at all because he's asleep at the switch. It forces Bret to practically wrestle for two. This is actually one of my favorite matches of all time, so it being so awesome despite Anvil's contributions (or lack thereof) is a testament to how great Bret was even then. I will grant that Neidhart turns in a much better performance in the Killer Bees match (another one of my all-time favorites).

[Boydy]

If anyone has not yet seen NXT UK this week then you should definitely watch Tyler Bate Vs Bailey Matthews(Regal's kid) as they have a very good, short match and Bailey held his own. You can tell he is Regal's son and Regal should be very proud as he really did well in his WWE debut.

Bailey Matthews if pushed right is one for the future. 

[Matt D]

30 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

This match is a prime example of what I'm talking about. When Neidhart is the legal man, he supplies nothing but generic big man offense. And it's not like he does anything special on the apron. In fact, there are a couple of spots that look like clear setups for him to interfere, but he either runs in late or doesn't run it at all because he's asleep at the switch. It forces Bret to practically wrestle for two. This is actually one of my favorite matches of all time, so it being so awesome despite Anvil's contributions (or lack thereof) is a testament to how great Bret was even then. I will grant that Neidhart turns in a much better performance in the Killer Bees match (another one of my all-time favorites).

Again, so much of my point is that we shouldn’t laugh this stuff out the door because it could create interesting discussion and because footage has become more available and certain metrics have shifted over time.

It was more of a hypothetical than an actual thing to engage with in this moment but if people want to do so, go for it.

To me, it’s interesting you point to a Bulldogs match as one pole and a non-Bulldogs match as another pole. I think a lot of people’s rose colored glasses on both tag worker Bret and the Bulldogs in general are of the specific pairing. I wonder if Bret was more suited/familiar with them and Neidhart less suited. 

[RIPPA]

I wonder if Bret Hart actually sucks

[Jenalysis]

13 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I know MVP and Mia Yim are hug Wutang marks. The Beat Down Clan was basically Wrestlings Wutang. Also RZA is close with Batista. Most, if not all of the Wutang Clan members are wrestling fans and Redman would throw in wrestling references in is raps on occasion. The business right now is so willing to accept any celebrity thats remotely athletic with a big enough name. Outside of the fact that they're taking another wrestlers potential pay day, I don't have a problem with it. Most the celebrities that get to work actual matches are the ones who are big enough fans that it was something they've always wanted to do. And from a promoters stand point they probably hoped to stumble upon another Tyson/Austin  situation were they turn business around especially since wrestling isn't as socially relevant right now. WWE is trying to bring in Cardi B, I hope she does get involved. Seeing as she's the same age as alot of the women on the roster, I could see her hitting it off with a few of them and maybe leading to more crossover for some of them

 

MVP is probably going to go down I think is one of the more underrated folks of this era.  He does a lot of things so well- and he had fun matches, especially after the Kane stuff and even more after Benoit beat the wrestling into him.   I was really hoping he'd end up on NJPW Strong and doing something with Ren Narita- even moreso after hearing Shibata's criticism of Narita lacking fire (probably kayfabed but you never know)

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Bret is doing all of the heavy lifting,  what does Anvil provide outside of a nice hot tag sequence to many of these matches?  Bret is often fighting two men by himself. 

[Curt McGirt]

1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

I wonder if Bret Hart actually sucks

Well he's definitely a formula guy. Just look at the complaints winged between him and Flair for doing the exact same shit in every match. 

Re: Neidhart, it feels a bit unfair to complain about the other guy in a tag with Bret, no? But that's criticism for you.

[Ryan]

But, how was Jim with Owen compared to Bret?!

[Matt D]

29 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Well he's definitely a formula guy. Just look at the complaints winged between him and Flair for doing the exact same shit in every match. 

Re: Neidhart, it feels a bit unfair to complain about the other guy in a tag with Bret, no? But that's criticism for you.

Bret is more like Christian than Flair, though Christian is the evolution of him in response to more weekly TV.

[ChesterCopperpot]

 

[Eivion]

3 hours ago, alstein said:

MVP is probably going to go down I think is one of the more underrated folks of this era.  He does a lot of things so well- and he had fun matches, especially after the Kane stuff and even more after Benoit beat the wrestling into him.   I was really hoping he'd end up on NJPW Strong and doing something with Ren Narita- even moreso after hearing Shibata's criticism of Narita lacking fire (probably kayfabed but you never know)

I love MVP's character but have never really enjoyed his ring work. Like I know he had good matches with Benoît and Matt Hardy, but can't recall them at all.

[SirSmUgly]

3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I wonder if Bret Hart actually sucks

Heresy, goddamnit.

No, I know that nothing is heresy around here.

The Hart Foundation is one of those teams that my childhood impressions are hard to get around because as a kid, they were Not the Rockers. Kinda like the Demos were Not Really the Road Warriors, and I still sort of have to overcome that when talking about them.

But I do think Anvil played his role well in the HF stuff I've seen, though that match posted above is in fairness not a point in his favor.