FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling

[Rev Ray]

35 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

What the F is this about?

The thread: 

 

I have attempted some good ol boot licking to avoid the block.  I would say I am stupid and I respect him but I do not know how that will go with the language barrier.

[Hagan]

So, what are the best barb wire and/or exploding ring barb wire matches to watch? 

I mean, has there ever been a GOOD one? It's all spectacle and voyeuristic bloodlust but is there one that legitimately can be called a great match? 

[Zimbra]

16 minutes ago, Hagan said:

So, what are the best barb wire and/or exploding ring barb wire matches to watch? 

I mean, has there ever been a GOOD one? It's all spectacle and voyeuristic bloodlust but is there one that legitimately can be called a great match? 

Yo:

 

[Curt McGirt]

Onita vs. Funk, Tenryu, Hayabusa, Goto. And definitely the match above.

[J.H.]

Hayabuas/Tanaka v. Funk/Mr. Pogo No Ropes Exploding Barbed Wire Double Hell Exploding Deathmatch is a fun little fight, as you have Busa throwing himself all over the place, bumping like a freak and Terry Funk is in full "Crazy Terry Funk" mode while Pogo is Pogo and Masato Tanaka is just trying to direct traffic and have something resembling a match

I love this match to pieces!

James

 

[Spontaneous]

Figured I would contribute a link to the Foley-Funk match. It's not great but I think for many it was one of the first match of this kind that they saw. I also second the Toyoda-Kudo match. That is probably the best one. 

[Curt McGirt]

1 hour ago, J.H. said:

Hayabuas/Tanaka v. Funk/Mr. Pogo No Ropes Exploding Barbed Wire Double Hell Exploding Deathmatch is a fun little fight, as you have Busa throwing himself all over the place, bumping like a freak and Terry Funk is in full "Crazy Terry Funk" mode while Pogo is Pogo and Masato Tanaka is just trying to direct traffic and have something resembling a match

I love this match to pieces!

James

I love it too but it is a hot mess and doesn't really fall under the "great match" category, at least in the conventional sense. Foley/Funk is the same. 

No explosions, but I remember this ruling

 

[Coletti]

I'm listening to Eddie Kingston on Renee's podcast right now and all I can think is this dude needs to be in Hollywood. He easily could have been a big bad on The Shield or Breaking Bad, he is just oozing charisma, menace, and legitimacy.

I know we've talked before about who from the wrestling world would be great at acting, but Kingston is going to be at the top of my list from now on. 

[SirSmUgly]

Kingston can make you care about whatever angle he's in on whatever part of the card the angle's in. He's legitimately a great talent and should have had a better career than he's had. 

[odessasteps]

Speaking of Kingston, Twitter tells me it would have been Larry Sweeney's 40th birthday. 

[Sawada's Cobra]

4 hours ago, Rev Ray said:

The thread: 

 

I have attempted some good ol boot licking to avoid the block.  I would say I am stupid and I respect him but I do not know how that will go with the language barrier.

Tobita is the man, I think I have seen more Tobita in the last year than most people outside of Japan. He even worked a 1995 show that had an exhibition match between Koichi Kimura vs Sayama as Super Tiger. This was during his PWC days and had a bunch of PWC guys on it, even Tigerman who would later show up in Eagle Pro. 

[Boydy]

I would love to see a buddy cop film with Eddie Kingston and New Jack.

[The Green Meanie]

18 minutes ago, Boydy said:

I would love to see a buddy cop film with Eddie Kingston and New Jack.

He's not Denzel, but he can be Denzel's best friend.

[Spontaneous]

How about Training Day with Eddie Kingston and Survival Tobita?

[Kev]

8 hours ago, Casey said:

I mean, I might be in the minority, but I thought the end to Undertaker's WrestleMania streak was pretty great.

On that same note, but the other side of it - it kind of sucks that Mr. Perfect's undefeated streak ended at the hands of fucking Brutus Beefcake (unless you count untelevised house shows, but the TV didn't, so...). And apparently the Hogan vs Perfect/Genius handicap match aired on MSG Network after WrestleMania, but taped before it (?), so even that doesn't count technically if we're following just what aired on TV in chronological order.

Yeah, THE streak was my first thought as well. I suppose it depends on how we define win streak though, you could argue that any lengthy title run is a win streak, in which case there should be plenty of examples which end in a satisfying title switch. But I assume we’re talking more newcomer win streaks, in which case I literally can’t think of any good examples.

[Sublime]

If they had let DDP end Goldberg’s streak that would have been the best ending of a win streak because the diamond cutter was over enough that it would have been convincing but not hurt Goldberg’s aura. But yeah I can’t think of a win streak that was booked well when it ended.

[OSJ]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:51 AM, AxB said:

Did you see that Eminem video on the UFC Saturday? Because it was all making it look like Eminem is training for a fight and all the boxing and MMA imagery, but the crowd shot on the chorus was totally the Thunderdome.

There have been massive arguments back and forth over the years as to whether Eminem watches wrestling or not. Some people get hugely invested in it.

I'm late to the game on this, but the dude is from Detroit, 8-mile to be more specific, the idea that he doesn't watch wrestling is absurd.

[Elsalvajeloco]

19 minutes ago, Sublime said:

If they had let DDP end Goldberg’s streak that would have been the best ending of a win streak because the diamond cutter was over enough that it would have been convincing but not hurt Goldberg’s aura. But yeah I can’t think of a win streak that was booked well when it ended.

Jackhammer -> Diamond cutter outta nowhere would have took the roof off the place.

You could have had a scenario where Goldberg hits the spear, but is too tired/fatigued/hurt to get up and do the Jackhammer. Then, he finally gets Page up, long delayed suplex position, and then....Page falls, lands on his feet, Diamond Cutter. 1-2-3. 

I think by the time Page got the belt in 99, the wheels had already come off too much for it to be corrected. Beating Goldberg in that fashion would have made him a megastar that could have prolonged WCW just a little while longer. They would have had someone that could somewhat rival Austin and The Rock.

[OSJ]

7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I don't know what is worse

Bix defending us or the fact that Tobita clearly vanity searches

There are circles of Hell...

[Matt D]

It's really simple to end a streak. Keep it simple and get heat on someone. DDP cleanly beating Goldberg would have been fine, but debuting Bam Bam in February to screw him and cause him to get pinned would have been better. Nash clearly and cleanly turning heel to cost him a match against Hogan would have worked too. Both of those create story beats, gets someone or something over, and gives the person a legitimate gripe. What they did was two complicated with multiple weeks to pay off. Keep it simple. I can see cases where you put over someone cleanly to end a streak but that's about elevating a younger talent who has clearly outpaced the person with the streak. Seems rare within the span of a year or two though.

But this isn't rocket science. Make it screwy. Set up new feuds. Have the person who loses not lose a beat in the eyes of the fans even though he ate a pinfall. You do it right and the babyface with the streak hasn't lost any momentum, has a big program against an even more heated heel or new heel threat, and the person who beat him has the buzz/momentum. You've got multiple programs, multiple stars, lots of heat all coming out of it. I don't see why this is hard at all.

[Dewar]

Tatanka's streak getting ended by a cheating heel is the blueprint for this. The followup sucked because of Borga being a shithead, but coming out of that match, Borga was a made man for ending the streak and Tatanka was set up for a world title feud with Yokozuna.

[MapRef41N93W]

20 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Jackhammer -> Diamond cutter outta nowhere would have took the roof off the place.

You could have had a scenario where Goldberg hits the spear, but is too tired/fatigued/hurt to get up and do the Jackhammer. Then, he finally gets Page up, long delayed suplex position, and then....Page falls, lands on his feet, Diamond Cutter. 1-2-3. 

This is almost exactly what they did at Halloween Havoc '98, except there wasn't a long delay before the reversal. And Goldberg kicked out >:^|

17 minutes ago, Matt D said:

It's really simple to end a streak . . . Make it screwy.

Booooo

[Kev]

What about the initial Umaga run. Undefeated until taking a ‘fluke’ roll up to the ace, building to a rematch where the ace has to pretty much kill him to put him down. Although I suppose the new monster heel being built up for the champ is a bit of a different blueprint.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

It's really simple to end a streak. Keep it simple and get heat on someone. DDP cleanly beating Goldberg would have been fine, but debuting Bam Bam in February to screw him and cause him to get pinned would have been better. Nash clearly and cleanly turning heel to cost him a match against Hogan would have worked too.

To me, screwy finishes was the reason WCW was kinda flailing at the end of 98. They just had so much shit going on that they lost the plot. IIRC I think the summer of 98 was when Bischoff had that meeting w/ Turner brass where they put a ceiling on how far they could go. I think Eric panicked, saw what WWF was doing, and decided if they couldn't out raunch WWF that they would have a bajillion run-ins and a whole bunch of nonsensical shit inserted into their storylines. I don't think it's any coincidence, Eric was gone by the end of the next summer a year later. To me as a fan then, I thought if Goldberg should have lost, it should have been cleanly. And if you want that guy who beat him could have had a decent little reign, Goldberg beats him clean at SuperBrawl, and the title changes hands again at Slamboree or GAB. That's three really strong buyrates you could have gotten out of that. And then, you pivot to the next feuds for both guys. The only guy they really had going they had fucked up was Page at the time, and he was very much on upward trajectory. They had Wrath going for a little bit, but I don't think Bryan Clark really had the tools for the next level. He had an amazing look and the crowd started to get behind him, but I don't think he would have been the guy.

I just didn't buy Bam Bam as a top guy. I went back and watched the Raw when he turned babyface and left the Million Dollar Corporation. Shortly after, they had a Raw where Shawn had to be saved by Diesel and Bam Bam. All three are in the ring at the end of the show. He was clearly lesser than on the screen, unsure of himself, and just came off as a mid carder/third wheel hanging out with the big boys. Shawn and Kevin carried themselves like stars and Bigelow is in the ring like, "yeah, way to go guys." He was like a big 300+ pound mascot for the stars. 

When he was in WCW during that time period, he never jumped off the screen for me. I had already seen him just kinda be a guy in his other runs in the major companies. It felt like there was a time for Bam Bam to be star and that time was ten years earlier. Had he not kept bouncing back-and-forth from WWF to JCP/WCW, he could have been a really big star and I think his limitations as far as on screen presence and charisma could have been hidden better. In the Monday Night Wars era, he felt like a leftover from the New Generation who happened to still be around.

[The Natural]

6 hours ago, Hagan said:

So, what are the best barb wire and/or exploding ring barb wire matches to watch? 

I mean, has there ever been a GOOD one? It's all spectacle and voyeuristic bloodlust but is there one that legitimately can be called a great match? 

Best of them all was Terry Funk vs. Sabu at ECW Born to be Wired 1997 in a no rope barbed wire match. That's a really hard watch with Sabu tearing his bicep open, taping it up with wrist tape and both become entangled in the barbed wire so went to the finish.

Sabu vs. Abyss in the first Barbed Wire Massacre at TNA Turning Point 2005 and Barbed Wire Massacre III: LAX vs. oVe on Impact TV, 18th January 2018. Those had no ropes barbed wire with barbed wire weaponry. No exploding barbed wire.