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But seriously, folks:

Spoiler

 

I hate that wrestling companies will allow blatant cheating, caught on video in clear view of everyone, to go completely unpunished. Some promotions even allow their supposedly prestigious titles to change hands as a result of such acts. It makes no sense and cheapens everything.

I also hate that the rules of pro wrestling permit competitors to drop each other on their heads and necks, kick and knee downed opponents in the head, and throw each other over the top rope.

These moves being legal makes nonsense out of everything that happens in the ring. Why would you ever scoop slam an opponent on their back when you could spike them on the top of their head instead? If your opponent is on the mat in front of you, why would you ever do anything but stomp their face over and over? Why would you ever hit a press slam or powerbomb in the ring, when from the same setup, you could throw your opponent over the top rope to the floor? It would be way more effective, and it's all legal!

All wrestling promotions should outlaw manuevers that involve lifting the opponent off their feet and dropping them on their head or neck, as well as all kicks and knees to the head of downed opponents, and all throws over the top where the opponent's feet are off the mat before their shoulders clear the perimeter of the ropes. They should also move away from unambiguous match-deciding cheating, except for angles involving reversed decisions and/or wrestler suspensions.

 

I'm kidding, but I'm also completely serious.

(Spoiler for eyeroll-inducing diatribe)

Edited by MapRef41N93W
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A wrestling promotion run with "real sport" rules could be pretty interesting.

It would certainly give some great room to work on 'shades of grey' stories with people deliberately/accidentally cheating, or trying to injure people with illegal moves etc.

Put value into managers by giving them NFL style challenge flags. Heel cheats, ref misses it, out comes the challenge flag.

You don't have a manager? Oh well, refs rule is final.

Did your manager not throw the flag? Maybe they didn't see the cheating either? Or maybe they are about to turn on you...

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12 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

I don't know quite how to explain this, but I hate this thing I've been seeing recently where multiple wrestlers will all do one wrestler's signature pose at the same time. It's part of a larger trend toward a sensibility in wrestling that I can't quite describe except to call it "cutesy".

For example:

LGAy98.gif

uWBUly.gif

Plus one more recent thing in a similar vein from AEW

I'm personally on the fence about these since I don't mind showing your opponent up if it happens in the context of the match. At least the Nakamura one was from a house show and those always have silly stuff in them (which is partly why there fun to attend). 

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14 hours ago, L_W_P said:

A wrestling promotion run with "real sport" rules could be pretty interesting.

It would certainly give some great room to work on 'shades of grey' stories with people deliberately/accidentally cheating, or trying to injure people with illegal moves etc.

Put value into managers by giving them NFL style challenge flags. Heel cheats, ref misses it, out comes the challenge flag.

You don't have a manager? Oh well, refs rule is final.

Did your manager not throw the flag? Maybe they didn't see the cheating either? Or maybe they are about to turn on you...

part of what make the Royal Rumble so fun and something that even the casuals and lapsed show back up for is it's the one night on the WWE schedule that comes closest to still doing it.  Time lasted, number of eliminations, which numbers are historically more lucky. STATS. And as much as I've been joining in with the laments about "The Floor Is Lava" the underlying premise that there is a Letter Of The Law that's gotten divorced from the Spirit Of The Law as athletes find a competitive edge in the loophole is great, and all over real sports -- and not coincidentally, I think, the moments that tend to draw the most controversy (or as we wrestling fans call it, heat) -- just think about how much "did both feet hit the floor?" feels like "did he get both feet in bounds?" or "did he break the plane of the goal line?"  It's really not that different.

Just think about how pissed off people get, and how much "engagement" social media gets after a soft Roughing The Passer call, or a phantom Pass Interference or Holding.  Why is that?  Because the match matters, and the rules ostensibly matter.  Wrestling is leaving metric tonnes of potential heat on the table by not going through with the effort of pretending to be a "realistic" sport.

I *LOVE* the manager with challenge flag idea, especially because it would actually give pretense/plausible deniability to why anyone has a second at ringside, be it manager valet or partner, instead of everyone knowing they're just there to expedite the run in so why doesn't the ref just eject them straight away? Why are they even allowed at all?

Meanwhile, I'm watching Tully Blanchard be as clandestine as possible about passing a metal slug back and forth to Shawn Spears' black glove and I appreciate Tully's effort but can't help but ask why go through all that trouble?  What are they going to do to you?  AEW never disqualifies anyone.  There's no consequences for being caught.

THAT should be the heat getting gimmick. Blatantly cheat in fair view of the ref and DARE them to DQ you every week, and talk in your promos about how you know they won't and it's the fans fault because the fans don't want a DQ.  Sets up your transition back to actually caring about rules.

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2 hours ago, Ramo2653 said:

I'm personally on the fence about these since I don't mind showing your opponent up if it happens in the context of the match. At least the Nakamura one was from a house show and those always have silly stuff in them (which is partly why there fun to attend). 

My first thought was "is it weird that the one on TV bothers me but I think the house show one is kinda cool?"

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1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

My first thought was "is it weird that the one on TV bothers me but I think the house show one is kinda cool?"

It also doesn't hurt that Nakamura's pose is cool, and Black's is... sitting on the floor like he's in kindergarten.

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On 2/7/2021 at 2:10 PM, BobbyWhioux said:

part of what make the Royal Rumble so fun and something that even the casuals and lapsed show back up for is it's the one night on the WWE schedule that comes closest to still doing it.  Time lasted, number of eliminations, which numbers are historically more lucky. STATS. And as much as I've been joining in with the laments about "The Floor Is Lava" the underlying premise that there is a Letter Of The Law that's gotten divorced from the Spirit Of The Law as athletes find a competitive edge in the loophole is great, and all over real sports -- and not coincidentally, I think, the moments that tend to draw the most controversy (or as we wrestling fans call it, heat) -- just think about how much "did both feet hit the floor?" feels like "did he get both feet in bounds?" or "did he break the plane of the goal line?"  It's really not that different.

Of course, if it were a real sport, the much bigger loophole - that if you go out under the top rope, you can hang out on the floor as long as you want - would have been closed long ago. When your match rules strongly disincentivize the competitors from getting in the damn ring at all, you have a problem.

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It was funny on the new day pod this week to hear Kofi being relieved in a way that he wasn't in the Rumble and didn't have to come up with a new spot this year. Of course, everyone still asked him about it. 

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54 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Of course, if it were a real sport, the much bigger loophole - that if you go out under the top rope, you can hang out on the floor as long as you want - would have been closed long ago. When your match rules strongly disincentivize the competitors from getting in the damn ring at all, you have a problem.

at least there's the baseball-esque rule that if you get lapped by the runner/number behind you, you're out, but that only applies if you never get in the ring in the first place and not even then if you're 2019 Billie Kay

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23 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

at least there's the baseball-esque rule that if you get lapped by the runner/number behind you, you're out, but that only applies if you never get in the ring in the first place and not even then if you're 2019 Billie Kay

Is that actually a rule, though? I know Piper said so one year, but as far as I know it's never been referenced since and there have been plenty of counter-examples.

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Well, there's the whole issue of whether you can eliminate yourself or not as well. Because that's been called both ways.

Then again, that's one of the ways Wrestling is like real sports; The fact that different referees interpret the rules different ways. Like how Fiveyards Holding deserved to be MVP of the Superbowl, or how John McCarthy insists a 12-6 Elbow is only a 12-6 elbow if the person delivering it is standing vertical. The exact same motion from a prone position is just a horizontal elbow.

He must think that gravity adds an awful lot of power to a strike. Like he doesn't know that "Heavy Handed" is a euphemism and hands don't actually weigh that much.

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Things I miss; the idea that a good tag team is better than two singles wrestlers teaming for the firs time, needing a managers license to be at ringside, newly turned heels growing and EVIL goatee.

things I don't like doing a rematch after the champ has lost because he had a "rematch clause" in his contract. there was a period where WWE did this constantly  also in the Royale Rumble tag teams or people who should be friends not working together just because its "everyman for himself"

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I'm sure this was mentioned before so apologies in advance.  But one main trope I miss is heels who grab something while applying a hold and the ref has to keep checking them a couple times.  Then when they hold it too long the ref freaks out and either the hold is broken or the face makes a small comeback.  It's such a simple thing for a heel to do but I've always been a sucker for it.

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35 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

One of the Deaners just turned and shaved his head and beard in TNA. It was pretty old school. 

He got it wrong by shaving his beard. Shaved head and a beard = EVIL

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Yeah but it made sense in this case because beard = Deaners and because Eric Young also shaved his beard. 

Hell when you think about it NOT having facial hair in wrestling these days is almost a heel move. Like it would be to not have shaved sides to your haircut in WWE. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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Was watching a Bullet Club vs. Chaos 10 man from this week and forgot about this one, when the heel will really build up a piece of offense with an intentionally bad payoff.  El Phantasmo had someone set up for Ishimori to come off the top but it ended up just being... a back rake

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Just remembered another one I hate: when the name of a tag team is either

(a) A portmanteu of the two wrestlers' names (FinnJuice, Breezango)

(b) A phrase made up of a word associated with one wrestler + a word associated with the other wrestler. (Sky Pirates, Natural Nightmares, Broserweights, Dangerous Tekkers)

This another part of the "cutesiness" trend I mentioned earlier--in that it seems like it's intended just to make fans say "oh, haha, I get that! I get what they're doing there!"

Plus it makes the team seem more like just those two wrestlers thrown together, rather than a special thing with its own identity.

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yeah it has that same "Create-A-Wrestler" feel as when their finisher is an established hold under an alias that's just a lazy pun on their name.

oblique references to the larger gimmick (Sharpshooter, Tombstone, Pedigree, Camel Clutch, Sister Abigail) are far more clever.  Tombstone is the best because unlike everything else in this post, that already was the established name for that hold.

It's fine if it's a new/unique hold, or at least new to the company (i.e. Rude Awakening, Razor's Edge, Diamond Cutter) or if the character is such a pompous ass that it makes sense for them to arrogantly put their own name on the hold (Perfect Plex, Taz-Mission).

There's also some wiggle room if the character name doubles as a word (see Rude Awakening) though you'll note Ric Flair never used a "Flair Gun" and Randy Savage's elbow drop was never formally dubbed The Savage Elbow, fans just slapped that label on it for expedience

Puns are also fine if they're not necessarily rooted in the character name (Disarm-Her) if the character has a bit of a sense of humor to them and it's also fine if it's not merely a pun but a hold named directly after the character (Asuka Lock, Vader Bomb, AngleSlam) though if the character has a nickname to go with their "real" name, it's better to name the hold after that (Million Dollar Dream, Stone Cold Stunner).

Some characters, conversely, should absolutely eschew cute names entirely (Spinebuster), and sometimes the hold's generic name is sufficiently cool or ominous sounding that it's impossible to improve upon (DDT). A hold also doesn't need a cute name if you protect it's menace and match ending potential enough (Heart Punch, Cross Face Chicken Wing).

But what is The Masterlock? Something cool?  Oh, no, just a full nelson.  Banks' Statement? Twisted Bliss?  It is, as the kids these days say, Cringe.  Reeks of trying too hard.  Now, when Bayley was a hugger and her whole raison d'etre was that she was exactly the sort of massive dork who WOULD slap a stupid cute name on her hold like the Belly-to-Bayley Suplex, leaning into that tryhard cringe actually fits.  And sure, you can survive in spite of it if you're over enough (Rock Bottom), but it's still more likely to make you look like a low-rent knockoff (BookEnd) even if you really are better than that.  Can you imagine if Magnum T.A. called the belly to belly "The T & A plex"?  Or if they'd tried to make Jake Roberts rename it "The Snakebite" [as they'd probably do today in a fit of Branding/Trademarking pique]? J.A.G. with Just Another thoughtless coat of paint covering up the beige loser underneath.  "Create A Wrestler".  Like you got invented in 5 minutes to fill out a roster spot.  And that's if you're lucky.  If you're unlucky you might even stumble into something offensive (The Hollycaust)

and God help you if the character name is a pun to begin with.  Though at least in that case you probably won't be using your finisher often enough for anyone to remember what dumb pun name got slapped on it.

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WCW tried to improve on the name of the DDT. They called it the Evenflow DDT for a bit.

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16 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

yeah it has that same "Create-A-Wrestler" feel as when their finisher is an established hold under an alias that's just a lazy pun on their name.

oblique references to the larger gimmick (Sharpshooter, Tombstone, Pedigree, Camel Clutch, Sister Abigail) are far more clever.  Tombstone is the best because unlike everything else in this post, that already was the established name for that hold.

It's fine if it's a new/unique hold, or at least new to the company (i.e. Rude Awakening, Razor's Edge, Diamond Cutter) or if the character is such a pompous ass that it makes sense for them to arrogantly put their own name on the hold (Perfect Plex, Taz-Mission).

There's also some wiggle room if the character name doubles as a word (see Rude Awakening) though you'll note Ric Flair never used a "Flair Gun" and Randy Savage's elbow drop was never formally dubbed The Savage Elbow, fans just slapped that label on it for expedience

Puns are also fine if they're not necessarily rooted in the character name (Disarm-Her) if the character has a bit of a sense of humor to them and it's also fine if it's not merely a pun but a hold named directly after the character (Asuka Lock, Vader Bomb, AngleSlam) though if the character has a nickname to go with their "real" name, it's better to name the hold after that (Million Dollar Dream, Stone Cold Stunner).

Some characters, conversely, should absolutely eschew cute names entirely (Spinebuster), and sometimes the hold's generic name is sufficiently cool or ominous sounding that it's impossible to improve upon (DDT). A hold also doesn't need a cute name if you protect it's menace and match ending potential enough (Heart Punch, Cross Face Chicken Wing).

But what is The Masterlock? Something cool?  Oh, no, just a full nelson.  Banks' Statement? Twisted Bliss?  It is, as the kids these days say, Cringe.  Reeks of trying too hard.  Now, when Bayley was a hugger and her whole raison d'etre was that she was exactly the sort of massive dork who WOULD slap a stupid cute name on her hold like the Belly-to-Bayley Suplex, leaning into that tryhard cringe actually fits.  And sure, you can survive in spite of it if you're over enough (Rock Bottom), but it's still more likely to make you look like a low-rent knockoff (BookEnd) even if you really are better than that.  Can you imagine if Magnum T.A. called the belly to belly "The T & A plex"?  Or if they'd tried to make Jake Roberts rename it "The Snakebite" [as they'd probably do today in a fit of Branding/Trademarking pique]? J.A.G. with Just Another thoughtless coat of paint covering up the beige loser underneath.  "Create A Wrestler".  Like you got invented in 5 minutes to fill out a roster spot.  And that's if you're lucky.  If you're unlucky you might even stumble into something offensive (The Hollycaust)

and God help you if the character name is a pun to begin with.  Though at least in that case you probably won't be using your finisher often enough for anyone to remember what dumb pun name got slapped on it.

The pinnacle of move naming has to be the Angle Lock.  It works on a lot* of levels.

 

 

*2

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6 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

yeah it has that same "Create-A-Wrestler" feel as when their finisher is an established hold under an alias that's just a lazy pun on their name.

oblique references to the larger gimmick (Sharpshooter, Tombstone, Pedigree, Camel Clutch, Sister Abigail) are far more clever.  Tombstone is the best because unlike everything else in this post, that already was the established name for that hold.

It's fine if it's a new/unique hold, or at least new to the company (i.e. Rude Awakening, Razor's Edge, Diamond Cutter) or if the character is such a pompous ass that it makes sense for them to arrogantly put their own name on the hold (Perfect Plex, Taz-Mission).

There's also some wiggle room if the character name doubles as a word (see Rude Awakening) though you'll note Ric Flair never used a "Flair Gun" and Randy Savage's elbow drop was never formally dubbed The Savage Elbow, fans just slapped that label on it for expedience

Puns are also fine if they're not necessarily rooted in the character name (Disarm-Her) if the character has a bit of a sense of humor to them and it's also fine if it's not merely a pun but a hold named directly after the character (Asuka Lock, Vader Bomb, AngleSlam) though if the character has a nickname to go with their "real" name, it's better to name the hold after that (Million Dollar Dream, Stone Cold Stunner).

Some characters, conversely, should absolutely eschew cute names entirely (Spinebuster), and sometimes the hold's generic name is sufficiently cool or ominous sounding that it's impossible to improve upon (DDT). A hold also doesn't need a cute name if you protect it's menace and match ending potential enough (Heart Punch, Cross Face Chicken Wing).

But what is The Masterlock? Something cool?  Oh, no, just a full nelson.  Banks' Statement? Twisted Bliss?  It is, as the kids these days say, Cringe.  Reeks of trying too hard.  Now, when Bayley was a hugger and her whole raison d'etre was that she was exactly the sort of massive dork who WOULD slap a stupid cute name on her hold like the Belly-to-Bayley Suplex, leaning into that tryhard cringe actually fits.  And sure, you can survive in spite of it if you're over enough (Rock Bottom), but it's still more likely to make you look like a low-rent knockoff (BookEnd) even if you really are better than that.  Can you imagine if Magnum T.A. called the belly to belly "The T & A plex"?  Or if they'd tried to make Jake Roberts rename it "The Snakebite" [as they'd probably do today in a fit of Branding/Trademarking pique]? J.A.G. with Just Another thoughtless coat of paint covering up the beige loser underneath.  "Create A Wrestler".  Like you got invented in 5 minutes to fill out a roster spot.  And that's if you're lucky.  If you're unlucky you might even stumble into something offensive (The Hollycaust)

and God help you if the character name is a pun to begin with.  Though at least in that case you probably won't be using your finisher often enough for anyone to remember what dumb pun name got slapped on it.

Dolph Ziggler and his "Zig Zag" would like a word with you...

That aside, how do you feel about ZSJ's full page poetry finisher names?

Edited by L_W_P
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Orienteering with Napalm Death is a reference to a Stewart Lee comedy routine.

 

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On 2/13/2021 at 5:38 PM, Nineteen said:

Was watching a Bullet Club vs. Chaos 10 man from this week and forgot about this one, when the heel will really build up a piece of offense with an intentionally bad payoff.  El Phantasmo had someone set up for Ishimori to come off the top but it ended up just being... a back rake

I always loved when the Young Bucks would do a Great Muta style handspring into the corner, just to do a back rake.  Bonus points for the time they did it in a no dq match and used an actual rake. 

13 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

(b) A phrase made up of a word associated with one wrestler + a word associated with the other wrestler. (Sky Pirates, Natural Nightmares, Broserweights, Dangerous Tekkers)

 

Exception to the rule: The Unbreakable Fucking Machines

4 hours ago, L_W_P said:

Dolph Ziggler and his "Zig Zag" would like a word with you...

That aside, how do you feel about ZSJ's full page poetry finisher names?

"Hurrah! Another Year, Surely This One Will Be Better Than the Last; The Inexorable March of Progress Will Lead Us All to Happiness."  Always funny to hear Excalibur try to get the full name in before the opponent could get out of it or submit.

More recent trope I can't stand: refs counting dogpile pin attempts.  No.  Just no.

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