JANUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling

[zendragon]

That last sentence is right on the money 

[JonnyLaw]

I’d call them the Facebook of pro wrestling. Clear #1 in their field, little innovation, buy out/sign competitors, bad for America.

[twiztor]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Topanga > Kelly Kapowski

Eddie, i like you man, you're a nice guy. but you're really pushing my buttons here.

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

We all know how WWE hammers people over the head non-stop with whatever they're pushing. They are gonna run the promotion of Peacock into the ground during the weekly shows. 

i can't decide if a Goobledy Gooker Peacock is the best idea or the worst.

[Brian Fowler]

1 minute ago, twiztor said:

Eddie, i like you man, you're a nice guy. but you're really pushing my buttons here.

Is the truth that painful?

[Kang]

Domestic Houseshows aren't needed anymore with all these deals, revenue, alternative ways to make money. The business model has changed for WWE.

[Godfrey]

It's interesting to view it as a promotional tactic, a billion dollars for a 5 year full court press. Will they also save a fortune by laying off everyone who took care of the accounts and other parts of the Network that Peacock will now take care of for them? I don't know much about business but that sounds like a WWE thing to do. Then the Network can wander from service to service for increasingly bigger figures somehow.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

1 hour ago, D.Z said:

Domestic Houseshows aren't needed anymore with all these deals, revenue, alternative ways to make money. The business model has changed for WWE.

Except for the fact the performer contracts are still heavily skewed towards the majority of your income is based off of house show bonuses. WWE did away with PPV bonuses when the network started. They took away third party platforms last year. They are now scrapping house shows completely. Merch bonuses is legitimately the only source of income now for the performers, outside of the downside guarantee. Which kind of makes downside guarantees obsolete and carny as fuck. Hey pal take a lower salary here but you'll make it up in bonuses if you do well. (But we're gonna take away 75% of the bonus opportunities so actually you'll pretty much just make your downside. Haha. Capitalism pal, gotta love it.).


Multiple billion dollar deals in the last 18 months for the company. But the earning power of the performer has never been lower than it is now.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, Godfrey said:

It's interesting to view it as a promotional tactic, a billion dollars for a 5 year full court press. Will they also save a fortune by laying off everyone who took care of the accounts and other parts of the Network that Peacock will now take care of for them? I don't know much about business but that sounds like a WWE thing to do. Then the Network can wander from service to service for increasingly bigger figures somehow.

They don't even have to promote anything for the next five years. It can be the same thing it is now every second of television for the next five years, from NXT up to WM, and it simply will not matter one bit to the bottom line. It's fucking baffling.

[Brian Fowler]

I think there are two separate issues with house show business here. What the company needs (getting guys ring time, wrestlers earning money, maybe merch sales) and doesn't need them for (income) is one of those things.

The other is what cratering house show business tells us about their overall popularity.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Brian Fowler

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

[mattdangerously]

11 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Topanga > Kelly Kapowski

Winnie Cooper > Topanga > Kelly Kapowski

[sabremike]

So do these recent developments mean WWE is going to sign Dalton Castle and give him a huge push as the face of Peacock???

[Niners Fan in CT]

You can give the gobbly gooker a new paint job. 

[The Natural]

Here y'all!

 

[Ryan]

14 hours ago, Craig H said:

So, to show an example of how fucking annoyed I am at my old man brain, I can still remember how the theme song for ProStars goes, but I can't remember family trip stuff from 6 years ago

Maybe you all just sang the theme song?

[The Natural]

Taken from f4wonline.com:

In an interview with Sportskeeda, McIntyre said a cinematic match against “The Fiend” Bray Wyatt for the WWE Championship isn’t something he’s interested in right now: “Maybe eventually, not right now. I'm WWE Champion and I think, in fact I know, like the way I've been building the title, it's about the honor and respect and about wrestling. And there's room on the show for everything, a little bit something for everybody, different characters. It'd be boring if everyone was the same and The Fiend's unique character is so incredible, so out there, but I don't think that's something I think I want to mix the WWE title with. Like that's for, you know that portion of the audience and for me as a fan to watch and be blown away by the spectacle. But when it comes to the WWE Championship, I expect it to be in a wrestling match. You know, like man-on-man, fighting over the title with respect and honor. And that's what I'm all about, that's how I've tried to represent the title and that's how I think it should be represented. Not in a comedic fashion or an outlanding fashion, but a realistic wrestling environment."

Well said, Drew McIntyre.

Edited January 27, 2021 by The Natural

[AxB]

If he wants the World title to be contested as a serious Wrestling contest with respect and honour, he's signed to the wrong company.

[The Natural]

So funny. CHAOS losing it.

Edited January 27, 2021 by The Natural

[Technico Support]

16 hours ago, Infinit said:

I wonder if Fox will push back on Peacock being heavily promoted on their network. And if they do, how Vince & Co will handle it.

Thinly-veiled corporate exec heel gimmick incoming!

Or they hire AR Fox and job him to Dalton Castle on every show.

12 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Except for the fact the performer contracts are still heavily skewed towards the majority of your income is based off of house show bonuses. WWE did away with PPV bonuses when the network started. They took away third party platforms last year. They are now scrapping house shows completely. Merch bonuses is legitimately the only source of income now for the performers, outside of the downside guarantee. Which kind of makes downside guarantees obsolete and carny as fuck. Hey pal take a lower salary here but you'll make it up in bonuses if you do well. (But we're gonna take away 75% of the bonus opportunities so actually you'll pretty much just make your downside. Haha. Capitalism pal, gotta love it.).

Hearing old talent relations guys like JR discuss house show payouts was always very carny and disgusting.  Essentially, the promotion got the biggets cut, then the main eventers got a set percentage of what was left, and the rest of the guys on the card got whatever Ross figured they should get based on gut feeling and some arcane, carny pro wrestling math taught to him by semi-literate promoters on his way up.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

4 hours ago, The Natural said:

Taken from f4wonline.com:

In an interview with Sportskeeda, McIntyre said a cinematic match against “The Fiend” Bray Wyatt for the WWE Championship isn’t something he’s interested in right now: “Maybe eventually, not right now. I'm WWE Champion and I think, in fact I know, like the way I've been building the title, it's about the honor and respect and about wrestling. And there's room on the show for everything, a little bit something for everybody, different characters. It'd be boring if everyone was the same and The Fiend's unique character is so incredible, so out there, but I don't think that's something I think I want to mix the WWE title with. Like that's for, you know that portion of the audience and for me as a fan to watch and be blown away by the spectacle. But when it comes to the WWE Championship, I expect it to be in a wrestling match. You know, like man-on-man, fighting over the title with respect and honor. And that's what I'm all about, that's how I've tried to represent the title and that's how I think it should be represented. Not in a comedic fashion or an outlanding fashion, but a realistic wrestling environment."

Well said, Drew McIntyre.

Man, I hope he doesn't get in trouble for saying "wrestling" so often!

Edited January 27, 2021 by El Gran Gordi

[Spontaneous]

At least we are past the stuffing instead of mashed potatoes/product days. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Hearing old talent relations guys like JR discuss house show payouts was always very carny and disgusting.  Essentially, the promotion got the biggets cut, then the main eventers got a set percentage of what was left, and the rest of the guys on the card got whatever Ross figured they should get based on gut feeling and some arcane, carny pro wrestling math taught to him by semi-literate promoters on his way up.

Yeah carny math indeed lol. JR's first territory he drove around the promoter everywhere because he was blind. Forget the promoter's name. Leo McGirk maybe? But even carny math is better than no math... If you're THE GUY like Stone Cold or Hogan, let's say you get 5k a night as your bonus. (The amounts varied on the draw, who else was booked ect). But for the sake of easy math: 5k x 4 night a week (leaving one night as a tv night where I don't think they did bonuses) = 20k a week x 52... you're pulling in a bonus of $1,040,000. A million dollars on top of your salary for the major top stars.

 

Even if you're the lowest guy on the card you're getting at least 200 a night as your bonus. 200 x 4 = 800 a week x 52... even the lowest of the low card dudes where pulling in a bonus of $41,000 a year on top of their salary. So depending on where you were on the card, how often you worked, how much the office like you... you're getting between $40,000 - $1,000,000 extra a year on top of your salary. And that's how they operated for almost 40 years.

 

Now, it's just gone. You get your downside and no house show bonus. No ppv bonus. No third party money. You get salary, merch sales cut, and a bonus if you make one of the video games. But in recent year's they've cut the video game bonus significantly as well. The whole pay structure of the talent keeps getting cut. It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. They've singed multiple billion dollar deals in the last 18 months. I'd love to see what the revenue share is in WWE vs NFL or UFC or NBA. Them signing 500 people and trying to open up territories all over the world surely add to the total talent budget, but the overall slice any one person gets has got to be tiny compared to the company's profits.

 

And that's before we even start on how every single person on any single episode of any single television show that's shown on Peacock gets royalties, EXCEPT for professional wrestlers appearing in all that WWE content they just purchased now. It sucks that Andrew Yang was apparently just blowing smoke a few months ago. Because wrestlers need a union / collective bargaining so very badly.

Edited January 27, 2021 by NoFistsJustFlips
typos

[hammerva]

8 hours ago, The Natural said:

Taken from f4wonline.com:

In an interview with Sportskeeda, McIntyre said a cinematic match against “The Fiend” Bray Wyatt for the WWE Championship isn’t something he’s interested in right now: “Maybe eventually, not right now. I'm WWE Champion and I think, in fact I know, like the way I've been building the title, it's about the honor and respect and about wrestling. And there's room on the show for everything, a little bit something for everybody, different characters. It'd be boring if everyone was the same and The Fiend's unique character is so incredible, so out there, but I don't think that's something I think I want to mix the WWE title with. Like that's for, you know that portion of the audience and for me as a fan to watch and be blown away by the spectacle. But when it comes to the WWE Championship, I expect it to be in a wrestling match. You know, like man-on-man, fighting over the title with respect and honor. And that's what I'm all about, that's how I've tried to represent the title and that's how I think it should be represented. Not in a comedic fashion or an outlanding fashion, but a realistic wrestling environment."

Well said, Drew McIntyre.

I wonder if this what they are meaning when NEWZ sites are saying that something "scary" will happen in the finish.   "Scary" in some massive hocus pocus bullshit that will look dumb to make Bray or the Fiend the winner 

[Pete]

6 hours ago, The Natural said:

So funny. CHAOS losing it.

They're always cracking each other up on the "YTR produced" DVDs and the like. Ishii in particular is basically 180 degrees from his in-ring persona. 

[Technico Support]

@NoFistsJustFlipsyep, it's almost like wrestling needs to move on from the carny days and actually pay wrestlers like athletes or actors.  But WWE is run by a guy who'd have his own talent work TV tapings for free in the 80s because "you're getting exposure on my TV, pal!" so fat chance of that.

Meltzer has addressed the revenue share percentage comparing wrestling and MMA to other sports.  I can't remember the numbers but I know it was absolutely shameful.  I just looked it up and the NFL shares around 47% of their revenue with the players.  WWE was definitely under 10% and maybe closer to 5, I want to say.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Technico Support