It's Monday, You Know What That Means - Raw - 12/28/2020

[The Natural]

For RAW I'd only say AJ Styles, Sheamus, Drew McIntyre, Asuka, New Day and Hurt Business.

[Super Ape]

I just realized January 8 is a Friday. I wonder what stupid bullshit will air on Smackdown to commemorate the 14th anniversary of the day I swore I’d never give this company another penny.

[Dolfan in NYC]

49 minutes ago, Super Ape said:

I just realized January 8 is a Friday. I wonder what stupid bullshit will air on Smackdown to commemorate the 14th anniversary of the day I swore I’d never give this company another penny.

This seems like a long time to hold a grudge for Ashley Massaro winning a Bra & Panties Gauntlet match.   

[NikoBaltimore]

I didn't expect a full-on Brodie tribute but it was nice to see clips of the talent paying tribute in their own ways.  Honestly that was my main reason for flipping through the show though I'll likely stop before the Orton/Bliss segment.

As for Smackdown it's hard to believe at times how a brand that's part of the same company can be so much better.  But I've always been partial to SD over the years and I think a main part of it is due to Vince not having as much focus on it as he does Raw.  But I take no joy in seeing Raw be as bad as it is.  Some of my favorites like AJ are on there and I for the life of me have a hard time caring a lot of the time.  And now a match with Elias and Ryker in his corner just seals the deal.  The only thing worth paying attention to is Hurt Business and that's really about it.

[Super Ape]

46 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

This seems like a long time to hold a grudge for Ashley Massaro winning a Bra & Panties Gauntlet match.   

Close. Fake Trump vs. fake Rosie O’Donnell.

[The Natural]

42 minutes ago, Super Ape said:

Close. Fake Trump vs. fake Rosie O’Donnell.

Oof. Understandable.

[The Natural]

58 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I didn't expect a full-on Brodie tribute but it was nice to see clips of the talent paying tribute in their own ways.  Honestly that was my main reason for flipping through the show though I'll likely stop before the Orton/Bliss segment.

As for Smackdown it's hard to believe at times how a brand that's part of the same company can be so much better.  But I've always been partial to SD over the years and I think a main part of it is due to Vince not having as much focus on it as he does Raw.  But I take no joy in seeing Raw be as bad as it is.  Some of my favorites like AJ are on there and I for the life of me have a hard time caring a lot of the time.  And now a match with Elias and Ryker in his corner just seals the deal.  The only thing worth paying attention to is Hurt Business and that's really about it.

Smackdown tends to be my favourite show to RAW. 2002, 2003, 2006-2009, 2016 2018-2020. The years when RAW and Smackdown had separate rosters with the brand/roster split.

[The Natural]

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

6 hours ago, Eivion said:

 You can still see weaker points in some of the women's booking and the tag division.

The Bayley/Sasha feud was much stronger than anything that they've had going on with the RAW belt and hell Sasha/Carmella is much stronger too. They are also pushing Bianca into the spotlight and now have her feuding with Bayley.  

RAW has nothing going on for the women. 

[Eoae]

12 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I don't have a problem with them trying a cliffhanger. Regular TV shows do it all the time. But don't have Charly and R-Truth being ho-hum about it on RAW Talk. A co-worker was potentially set on fire 25 feet from where they sat. They couldn't be even half-inclined to care. It totally devalues the moment.

Hasn't it been well established that even WWE talent seem to not watch the shows?

Didn't love the optics of a woman basically daring a man to set her on fire and burn her to death, though somehow it did bring up memories of a hot, crazy girl I dated in college and led to my wife needling me over the relationship, so the segment wasn't a total waste (it was a fun moment with the wife; she enjoys pointing out how amazingly shallow I was when we were younger). 

As far as RAW vs. Smackdown goes, not a lot is working for me on SDL either aside from the Roman-Jey stuff.  Golden Role Models carried the water for the show before that.  I don't really feel like the women's division in general is faring that much better than Raw's.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Eoae

[The Natural]

You'd think I'd be into the Fiend/Alexa Bliss challenging Joker/Harley Quinn as a fan of all four but I can't for how it came about, a man assaulting a woman. Made me feel uncomfortable ever since with Fiend putting the Mandible Claw on Alexa Bliss and the pairing of the two as a result. When @Dolfan in NYC said he expects me and @D.Z to post pictures/memes of the two. I said I wouldn't and that's why I haven't. Be interested to get @Burgundy LaRue and @JLSigman's POV on this. Thanks.

[The Natural]

Still hate how Steve Austin gave Stacy Keibler a Stone Cold Stunner for not drinking a beer for Christ's sake.

[BobbyWhioux]

definitely makes The Fiend as babyface a really hard sell

[The Natural]

Just now, BobbyWhioux said:

definitely makes The Fiend as babyface a really hard sell

This too. Thank you. Why the fuck would I root for The Fiend?

[BobbyWhioux]

don't get me wrong, I liked the early phase of this angle, with Bliss as unwitting sleeper agent who would activate whenever someone mentioned The Fiend by name.

and "I come back from injury to turn heel and join the person who took me out because I'm more mad at my face friend for not visiting/defending me" is a twist as old as wrestling, so I don't even mind Bliss consciously siding with Wyatt. So I don't mind the pairing or how they got to it.

But it's absolutely not at any point babyface behavior and Orton was arguably completely heroic in fighting fire with fire (at least, as long as that remained figurative rather than literal) to defeat The Fiend

[The Natural]

12 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

don't get me wrong, I liked the early phase of this angle, with Bliss as unwitting sleeper agent who would activate whenever someone mentioned The Fiend by name.

and "I come back from injury to turn heel and join the person who took me out because I'm more mad at my face friend for not visiting/defending me" is a twist as old as wrestling, so I don't even mind Bliss consciously siding with Wyatt. So I don't mind the pairing or how they got to it.

But it's absolutely not at any point babyface behavior and Orton was arguably completely heroic in fighting fire with fire (at least, as long as that remained figurative rather than literal) to defeat The Fiend

That way rather than the assault. I don't like man on woman violence and I find this worse because Bliss has joined with the Fiend from that.

Edited December 29, 2020 by The Natural

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The Bayley/Sasha feud was much stronger than anything that they've had going on with the RAW belt and hell Sasha/Carmella is much stronger too. They are also pushing Bianca into the spotlight and now have her feuding with Bayley.  

RAW has nothing going on for the women. 

And when Sasha & Bayley were not involved none of the women were doing anything of note. The only other feud that got play was Mandy/Sonya which ended 4 months ago. They are doing slightly better now, but its nothing amazing. I never said it wasn't better than Raw. It is, but its still not as good as it could/should be. That is why I mentioned weaker points and didn't call it straight up bad or shitty. All one has to do is watch the NXT women's division to see the issues with main roster's divisions.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Eivion

[Eoae]

 

15 minutes ago, The Natural said:

This too. Thank you. Why the fuck would I root for The Fiend?

Because you rooted for Kane?  I mean, Vince is really just digging around in the same playbook that got parent-murdering necrophiliac over as a beloved babyface?  

Or maybe he's using the playbook that got the rapist father Lita's baby over as a babyface in the middle of a feud that also turned the pregnant women who Kane had coerced into sex into a heel?  Oops, never mind, we're talking about the same guy.

Maybe Vince thinks he can get the Fiend over as a babyface because he got the dude who set an announcer on fire as a babyface?  As well as the wrestler who tried to "electrocute" the owner's son's testicles?

Maybe the question should be: why wouldn't Vince think we'd cheer the Fiend?  The crowds have babyfaced worse characters.

[Kang]

The Fiend is the anti-hero of the angle tbh. Orton's new gimmick is Arsonist.

Jonathan Baeckstrom is the lead writer of Raw,  Ed Koskey is the lead Smackdown writer with both Ryan Ward and Andrea Listenberger helping out. All work under and report to Prichard who also controls both teams. Then there are Dana Warrior and Hayes and David Kapoor working for both brands.

Raw reportedly with Edge instead of Smackdowns D Bry. 

Plus Raw is now the brand that goes under more rewrites or Vince throws it all out and do it over himself.

Seems the general consensus is to just write Raw less than Smackdown but with some key moments. Raws getting the B level approach.

Now combine all that with 3 hours of Raw.

Edited December 29, 2020 by D.Z

[HumanChessgame]

Didn't Heyman have some creative input on Smackdown? Or is he just helping Roman with his promos?

[Kang]

Just Roman and some minor things.

Also Vince can veto anything anybody does.

[The Green Meanie]

I believe this was the shortest amount I watched of an episode of Raw ever. I made it through hour one, then just watched Simpsons episodes for the rest of the night.

[Burgundy LaRue]

I'll expand more on what I said over at PWO:

To @Eoae's point--and they're right--characters are often written to be isolated from anyone beyond who they're currently feuding with. Still, the nonchalant attitude to Fiend/Alexa/Orton bothers me. Orton burned the Fiend like firewood and taunted an emotionally/mentally abused Alexa. She's obviously suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, dousing herself in gasoline and begging to join the Fiend wherever he may be. 

I will say that Orton is being true to character. He's always been a sadist with a taste for arson. He'd normally burn Alexa to a crisp, but he enjoys tormenting her more. If nothing else, Orton's overall narrative is correct.

But how is it that one and potentially two wrestlers are being set on fire and no one besides commentary is even offering a "Hey, stop that!" toward the situation? Why isn't Adam Pearce doing anything in his role as WWE official? Why isn't brave warrior babyface Drew McIntyre, who just feuded with Orton, not coming to the rescue? He can stand up for legends who help him in an ambulance match, but can't be bothered to say Orton should leave Alexa alone? At least spend a few minutes talking about it on RAW Talk, as Alexa should have been screaming still, either for Orton to toast her or as she was engulfed in flames. The isolation of a story that big doesn't work for me. The roster should be talking about it backstage, if nothing else.

We're 16-17 years removed from Kane/Lita. Even then, we knew that story was weird at best, criminally psychotic at worst, and unbelievable in reality.  We were just a couple of years removed the Attitude Era of crash TV wrestling, so it got a pass when it shouldn't have. A LOT of stuff that was brushed off back then wouldn't work today, and thank goodness for that. Hopefully it's a sign that we've somewhat matured as an audience.

For the record, I think Orton and Alexa in particular are doing good jobs with the material they're given. But the whole thing is uncomfortable. Trying to present The Fiend as a babyface is like saying Freddy Krueger is a great guy. Sure, there's a certain charm that can pull you in. But he's still scum. Not only is Alexa a shell of herself, they have her swinging around like a child. I think it's supposed to come across as the Devil's playground, but it's missing the mark. Emotionally broken to where she acts like an 8-year-old? Strange as all out.

There's a way to tell the story if there are a couple of layers to it, even with the creepy overtones. I watch a lot of horror movies, so I don't get weirded out easily. And I've followed enough soap operas to where I can easily go along with a WTF premise. Present it with some semblance of plausibility and I'm fine. But this isn't plausible. You can't cheer for either Orton or the Fiend. You feel sorry for Alexa. It's twisted for the sake of being twisted with no logical conclusion in sight. And they're showcasing abuse, be it for sick love or sick thrills. It's a big no for me.

[Phantom Lord]

Well the whole thing made the NY Post (thought it says it was originally published in The Sun). I'm amused it was covered straight forward like this is what happened on this tv show.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/29/alexa-bliss-creepy-fire-scene-is-wwes-latest-dark-turn/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter

I watched the whole thing earlier on dvr and it was just stupid. I too wonder where the hell is anyone to come out and stop what was going on. The WWE has no problem with someone  who is begging to be burned alive so they just sit back and let it happen? Send out the entire locker room, officials, and cops or something. They want to write for adults but have no clue how to do it. 

[Kang]

Raw ratings went up. Next week they will probably go up some more.