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DECEMBER 2020 WRESTLING TALK.


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3 hours ago, Peck said:

Ric Flair said on ESPN today that the WWE is constructing a physical Hall of Fame building in Orlando.

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/ric-flair-wwe-building-hall-fame-orlando-327766

 

This could be pretty cool. They have the money and resources to make this memorable. Let's hope they don't botch it and it doesn't end up being WWE New York 2.0 at Universal City Walk or Disney Springs.

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I will say, with these numbers coming in, I want to take back some of what I said about Roman Reigns. He's clearly helping with Smackdown, considering what's happening to Raw's ratings with Drew and company on top.

 

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2 hours ago, Edwin said:

  

I think a lot of you overestimate how much Vince actually cares about AEW. Honestly, if you read some of the replies on this board and buy into everything Meltzer and co. say, you'd think Vince has nightmares about Tony Khan and AEW. I get it you all love it and think WWE is bad (which I agree with as I don't even bother watching aside from a handful of matches of wrestlers I like to watch on the roster), but of course knowing Vince.

Mmm, don't think I said anything about Vince fearing AEW. Pretty sure all I said was if NXT is staying on Wednesdays as counter programming to AEW, AEW wants a second show and USA needs content so... no need to twist my words. I hardly watch either at this point.

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1 hour ago, Edwin said:

 when AEW does questionable stuff you quickly back out

No I don't. When Matt Hardy got KOed on PPV and the match continued, I said it shouldn't have. Who besides me on this board has dissed AEW for not actually saying the words Gay or Trans in terms of LGBTQ representation on their roster?

Besides which, signing Sting to a multi-year contract is hardly on the same page as employing rapists, stranding the roster in Saudi Arabia, killing Owen Hart and trying not to pay his widow...

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For some reason I thought of the Freddy Krueger gimmick and thought damn, what a waste of a gimmick. Here you have one of the great talkers in horror history but the mask is a cheap piece of shit and clearly has no working jaw, so Freddy ends up being a mute just like Jason or Michael Myers. Tommy Gilbert probably could have pulled off the mic work too. 

And so then I had to watch this again

 

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22 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

For some reason I thought of the Freddy Krueger gimmick and thought damn, what a waste of a gimmick. Here you have one of the great talkers in horror history but the mask is a cheap piece of shit and clearly has no working jaw, so Freddy ends up being a mute just like Jason or Michael Myers. Tommy Gilbert probably could have pulled off the mic work too. 

And so then I had to watch this again

 

TIL the Freddy Kruger gimmick was done outside of W*ING and reading his Wiki entry, it says he actually wrestle as Freddy in Memphis before than the gimmick even debuted in W*ING.

I know Jason worked in Stampede and in Puerto Rico before W*ING.

Now I'm curious, did Leatherface or any of the other monsters show up elsewhere outside of W*ING or Japanese indys?

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1 minute ago, Smelly McUgly said:

This is DVDVR in 2020, no one here is on some Fed Warz shit except for me. 

Corgan's NWA will ride on ALL YOUR FAVORITE COMPANIES IN 2021 and they can do no wrong. 

Hey, they hired Cornette and he made that tasteless horrendous joke.

There ya go.

Edited by Edwin
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Yeah, in Memphis Tommy Gilbert was "Nightmare Freddy" (that tape is a Memphis one) and Doug Gilbert was Jason the Terrible. I'm pretty sure a Leatherface went through the US indies. 

EDIT: Yeah, Kirschner did Leatherface in ECW and ICP's JCW

Edited by Curt McGirt
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No, I'm an old man, so I posted at DVDVR instead of using that newfangled Twitter.

Seriously, though, HHH shitting on fans who complain and then say that they're going to stop watching is funny as shit considering how many viewers they've shed in the past two decades. If this company weren't being propped up by networks desperate for live programming, Vince'd be taking all the water coolers out of WWE's home office again by now. 

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25 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Yeah, in Memphis Tommy Gilbert was "Nightmare Freddy" (that tape is a Memphis one) and Doug Gilbert was Jason the Terrible. I'm pretty sure a Leatherface went through the US indies. 

EDIT: Yeah, Kirschner did Leatherface in ECW and ICP's JCW

Seems Leatherface was another Memphis gimmick.

I guess all the W*ING monsters were Memphis ripoffs, not Quiñones creations.

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10 hours ago, AxB said:

There's nowt wrong with hyping something big, when you know you're going to deliver something big. That's what AEW Winter is Coming was. What does WWE have on the table that's on the level of Omega vs Mox and Sting debuting?

 

9 hours ago, Edwin said:

I can't even.

 

7 hours ago, AxB said:

So you have the World Champion, PWI500 #1 defending the tile against the much ballyhooed Best Wrestler in the World, it's their second match ever (and the first match was a PPV Main Event that was famous for being excessively violent, and took place over a year earlier), AND a literal ICON making his company debut, and you think that's NOT a big deal? What more do you want, the moon on a stick?

 

3 hours ago, Edwin said:

 Alright, you're clearly trolling.

So if I'm following along, Edwin was taking issue with the suggestion that WWE couldn't put up something as big as Winter is Coming, AxB responded with the PWI500 #1 which Edwin rolled his eyes at, and here we are. 

Honestly, Edwin has kind of a point even though he ruffled some feathers in explaining it. If WWE put some effort into changing their product up and putting some marquee attractions on TV that are built up and protected, they could easily put up a special episode attraction as big and appealing as Winter is Coming. Building up to a major competitive Lesnar TV match or a Rousey match is something you could get some legs under pretty quickly and build from there. If WWE protected matches half as well as AEW, they could just as easily pop some numbers on some special shows. And they wouldn't even need the PWI500 #1 to do it. 😉 

They have a deep bench. If they really put their minds to it, they could wipe their ass with Omega and Mox. 

Quote

I think a lot of you overestimate how much Vince actually cares about AEW. Honestly, if you read some of the replies on this board and buy into everything Meltzer and co. say, you'd think Vince has nightmares about Tony Khan and AEW. I get it you all love it and think WWE is bad (which I agree with as I don't even bother watching aside from a handful of matches of wrestlers I like to watch on the roster), but of course knowing Vince.

I don't think anyone think Vince has nightmares about Tony. I think most people make the reasonable assumption that Vince would like to keep anyone else from getting a major foothold in what he perceives as his marketplace of big televised wrestling shows. But maybe you know Vince well enough to posit an alternative to everything suggested by decades of his own business practices. 

1 hour ago, Edwin said:

Pretty sure NXT has been on Wednesday nights since 2010 on the WWE Network and then they got a TV slot on USA for a lot of money, but of course, NXT can put on shows on Tuesdays and folks would claim they are counter programming Dark because no matter what they do = counter programming, direct shot, etc.

If you think Dynamite's impending debut didn't add extra motivation to strike such a deal, you're welcome to continue on in that belief. But we're talking about a guy who just a few years ago started a UK brand seemingly just to gut anyone potentially getting a foothold on ITV. I'm sure you can understand why you're having a hard time disabusing some of us of the notion that this guy is making moves to protect what he believes is his space in the market. 

Edited by Andy in Kansas
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27 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

No, I'm an old man, so I posted at DVDVR instead of using that newfangled Twitter.

Seriously, though, HHH shitting on fans who complain and then say that they're going to stop watching is funny as shit considering how many viewers they've shed in the past two decades. If this company weren't being propped up by networks desperate for live programming, Vince'd be taking all the water coolers out of WWE's home office again by now. 

The "Me and my Friend Mark" RAW had 4.5 Million viewers. So, triple what they got this week.

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1 hour ago, Edwin said:

So you are one of the folks Triple H was talking about.

 

RAW did 1.5 million viewers last Monday...alot of their friends must have stopped watching along with them too lol

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I actually got two IWA Japan handhelds from 2000 this week, one has a 10 man tag with get this a heel team made up of Tarzan Goto, Kendo Nagasaki, Ichiro Yaguchi, Freddy and Freddy #3. The other one has a six man with Goto, Freddy and Freddy #3, already had this but there's a WWS shows which has Freddy vs Freddy 3. After the match Doug Gilbert partially unmasks and goofs around with the crowd.  That's from the same show that has Mr. Pogo vs Jason the Terrible, which used to be on youtube.

Goto and Yaguchi might just be my favorite scummy indies deathmatch team, they raised hell in SPWF feuding with Yatsu. They ended up having a bunch of deathmatches with him. Deathmatches they had:
barbed wire cross penalty match,
a no rope barbed wire match
a exploding barbed wire cage one
a caribbean barbed wire, barbed wire boards and a bed of nails deathmatch 
Plus possibly one or two more, from the ones I have seen the, none cage, exploding barbed wire one is the best.

Edited by Sawada's Cobra
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2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

For some reason I thought of the Freddy Krueger gimmick and thought damn, what a waste of a gimmick. Here you have one of the great talkers in horror history but the mask is a cheap piece of shit and clearly has no working jaw, so Freddy ends up being a mute just like Jason or Michael Myers. Tommy Gilbert probably could have pulled off the mic work too. 

And so then I had to watch this again

 

I am so happy that someone chose that song instead of this one:

 

I dig it,

RAF

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10 hours ago, AxB said:

So you have the World Champion, PWI500 #1 defending the tile against the much ballyhooed Best Wrestler in the World, it's their second match ever (and the first match was a PPV Main Event that was famous for being excessively violent, and took place over a year earlier), AND a literal ICON making his company debut, and you think that's NOT a big deal? What more do you want, the moon on a stick?

He's not a literal icon. It's not like you can double-click on him to launch a program.

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1 hour ago, Sawada's Cobra said:

I actually got two IWA Japan handhelds from 2000 this week, one has a 10 man tag with get this a heel team made up of Tarzan Goto, Kendo Nagasaki, Ichiro Yaguchi, Freddy and Freddy #3. The other one has a six man with Goto, Freddy and Freddy #3, already had this but there's a WWS shows which has Freddy vs Freddy 3. After the match Doug Gilbert partially unmasks and goofs around with the crowd.  That's from the same show that has Mr. Pogo vs Jason the Terrible, which used to be on youtube.

Goto and Yaguchi might just be my favorite scummy indies deathmatch team, they raised hell in SPWF feuding with Yatsu. They ended up having a bunch of deathmatches with him. Deathmatches they had:
barbed wire cross penalty match,
a no rope barbed wire match
a exploding barbed wire cage one
a caribbean barbed wire, barbed wire boards and a bed of nails deathmatch 
Plus possibly one or two more, from the ones I have seen the, none cage, exploding barbed wire one is the best.

I like both Goto and Yaguchi.

I thought Goto was underrated as he never gets much recognition and he was great in many of the early FMW bloody brawls he was involved in.

Yaguchi is good too, but whenever I see him in it's mostly in those chaotic Onita multiman arena bloody brawls.

Speaking of sleazy Japanese indys. I always related the student pro-wrestlers to being strictly untrained backyarders and while they are backyarders, from what I've read they are considered student pro-wrestlers because they are actually university students. They create promotions at their universities and those are their home promotions where they wrestle. I know a good portion of the wrestlers who've come up through the DDT roster were student pro-wrestlers when they debuted for DDT. I know HARASHIMA, MIKAMI and Kota Ibushi were all student pro-wrestlers.

Japanese indy pro-wrestling is fascinating. They will literally put on shows anywhere and everywhere.

Edited by Edwin
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4 hours ago, kafkonia said:

I will say, with these numbers coming in, I want to take back some of what I said about Roman Reigns. He's clearly helping with Smackdown, considering what's happening to Raw's ratings with Drew and company on top.

 

I believe alot of that has to do with him turning heel and running very well with it. I truly believe it would've benefited him if happened years ago. I edon't think its Drew's fault necessarily, he and many others are a victim of the system. Him losing the title im sure didn't help.

USA being as much behind NXT going on USA as WWE is interesting. They obviously didn't expect to be so behind in viewership. It'll be interesting if they move them in the next year because unless the bring Roman Reigns and Heyman in for an angle or one of the Elite just leave and come in, I don't see NXT getting ahead of AEW any time soon. Although like I said recently, HHH and everyone else running NXT are actually trying to make  it a good show. Going live for 2 hours every week really changed the brand because they have to focus on having the better show than AEW each week. Now they have to keep certain top guys in NXT longer than they would've been.

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