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DECEMBER 2020 WRESTLING TALK.


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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Only WWE would sign a fat guy who can fly and do amazing things, then tell him to try to not be fat, fly, or do amazing things. 

WWE takes guys who do cool shit, then they remove all the cool shit from their games and make them all average.  There's a great Kurt Vonnegut short story, Harrison Bergeron, that I'm always reminded of whenever I hear how WWE sands down all the edges of their workers until they're all smooth and bland.

Reminds me of when they had Daivari do a dark match, everyone backstage popped when he did the flying carpet finish, WWE signed him, made him a generic evil Arab and never had him do the move on TV (As near as I can tell!).

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Remember when Brent Albright was Gunner Scott, Benoit's protégé but wasn't allowed to do any of Benoit's moves? Why even call anyone up for that then?

Oh, remember when Paul Burchill was a Jack Sparrow like pirate but Vince hadn't seen Pirates of the Caribbean so he axed it? No one could explain why this low card act was functioning to Vince?

Edited by Six String Orchestra
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5 hours ago, sabremike said:

Meltzer actually put it best: Lee does some things incredibly and some things not so incredibly. Many years back Ric Flair told him that when he turned face he realized that he wasn't great at doing dropkicks (a face staple) and he decided not to do them because he's Ric Flair and he doesn't do anything average. So tell him to do the stuff he does great and don't do the stuff he doesn't do great.

I understand that, thats a great point but how many people change up their moveset based on the Heel/Face dynamic. I watch all the PPVs every month without keeping up with the TV every week and when I watch the matches with the commentary on mute I can't tell alot of the times who's heel and who's face.

People bring up thing Lee doesn't do well but you have Miz and a handful of women on the main roster that aren't smooth at all in alot of stuff they do. Maybe his expectations of Keith Lee are higher than these other people but alot of these other people wouldn't have been on TV this long or even made it on TV period 20 to 25 years ago. Even Big Show and Mark Henry were sent to Developmental a time or two after both being prominently featured on TV for years. CM Punk a shitty looking top rope elbow which I thought was fine for him. The G2S looked like shit to especially compared to KENTA. My point is everything doesn't have to look pretty, as long as your safe. In WWE everything is supposed to look perfect, every footstep every word. From the entrance to the closing bell. No room for errors 

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Mine went out around the time of the Lee match. I was switching back and forth between that and Zimmern and now I just got a black screen. 

EDIT: Well shit. I got it figured out. Because I had rewound the TV to catch the spot where Miz fell down even though Morrison barely grazed him, then switched to Zimmern, it froze the TV in some kinda limbo. All I had to do was fast forward the TV to go back to where it left off. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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So I watched that Keith Lee/Angel Garza Main Event match that was being discussed (and put it in the 2020 matches thread so others can as well) and the guy who tweeted that it was wrestled like neither man had any idea how to work a big man/little man match... I have no idea what he was talking about as that didn't appear to be the case at all. The match is just sorta there and if one wanted to go "the WWE match formula has issues and I'll use this match to show why" that'd be fair but they generally worked the big/little formula well enough and the layout doesn't show any sign of the agents letting them down. Angel does have an awful chinlock but using it once you finally knock a big man down to keep him from getting back up is actually the right time to go to it, Lee perhaps registered Angel's strikes a tad bit much, but those aren't massive "these guys have no clue how to work this kind of match" issues. Lee didn't do any big athletic moves which is a larger main roster issue for him but I don't know that I'd want him to bust that out for Main Event.

 

Watching it with a critical eye what really sticks out is that on this stage Lee just lacks presence due to not really emoting much or being all that expressive either facially or with his body language. He does the big guy powering out of stuff WWE likes and at the right times but he doesn't really sell it all that well, perhaps if he was in front of a live audience that is marking out for it it'd work better but in this environment it looks... well it basically looks like a guy who needs a bit more training in that area. It is generally the one area WWE generally focuses on, often to excess (cries hysterically after someone kicks out of a move that has never won a match), so I am pretty sure it isn't something they'd ask him to do and something that would bother them in particular.

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Wrestlevotes posted this on twitter about an hour ago.

Quote

Recently a group of writers were asked to make a list of underutilized talents they felt could shine if given the proper opportunity. Those lists ranged wide, but nearly ALL of them included: Cesaro, Angel Garza, Chad Gable, Carmella & Peyton Royce.

 

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"Talented and Charismatic enough to be a top star in a major company", and "Talented and Charismatic enough to be a top star in a company run by Vince McMahon" are very much not the same thing. A few wrestlers fit both, but an awful lot fit one but not the other.

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39 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I can see some of them being used more but none of them sticks out as having a really high ceiling to me. 

At the risk of starting a stan-feud, I thought Carmella came out looking like a complete star on Smackdown. Yes, Sasha Banks is a much better worker and Carmella's new gimmick is to some extent a composite of old Diva schtick - but she has transitioned from 'the girl who got drafted last and is overcompensating' character to the new 'untouchable' character very well. In many ways, she is carrying it like The Boss did a few years ago. She's not 100% there yet, but I think she's more than capable of holding her own as a top tier female.

 

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8 minutes ago, Morganti said:

I mean. Truthfully? For WWE as long as they get paid it probably is.  The only way things change is if usa/fox start hammering vince or they stop makin merch money.

 

Not good for the current RAW roster who we’ll get the share of the blame.

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2 minutes ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

She's not 100% there yet, but I think she's more than capable of holding her own as a top tier female.

She's certainly improved and I do like her new character a lot, I agree with you.  I'm not sure about her ceiling but she's already been SD! champion so that wouldn't be a new accomplishment.  With women's wrestling in WWE my question is more around the idea of if the person could be a viable main eventer for WrestleMania and Royal Rumble.  Could Carmella be in the Charlotte vs. Asuka spot or the Becky vs. Charlotte vs. Sasha spot.   I'm not sure she's there but maybe she could get there.  

The others on the list I think their ceiling is the midcard or maybe the upper midcard.  They all have ability and WWE writing is garbage so sure they could be used btter than they are. 

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