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NOV WRESTLING CHIT CHAT THREAD

RIPPA

By RIPPA
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Posted
Posted

 

 

How about Busaiku Knee Kick?

 

Sure, Cole wouldn't screw that up at all.

 

 

So? We can't use that as a measuring stick. Cole can't call a suplex.

 

 

Since Vince is always in his ear anyway, Cole should just call everything "Whattamaneuver!"

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Skelemania

Skelemania

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Good ol' J.R, baw gawd! Sorry for the sloppy formatting, the quoting system here sucks.

 

**************

 

"Based on the WWE conference call this morning, executives were apparently disappointed with the Summer Slam PPV buys and the term 'attraction' was used as the reason.

 

Couldn't agree more. PPV's are all attraction driven and they've always been. However, the more that is given away on free TV and the more free TV that is provided in general the harder it is for attractions to be considered worth spending extra, big bucks on and adding to one's cable or satellite bill.

 

Plus, too often major storylines are 1. over thought and 2. over exposed in largely a 'sameness' presentation on free TV to make them feel special enough for one to want to invest significant money on PPV to see more.

 

I'm a believer that TV ratings can be achieved without giving away multiple, PPV attractions but only if long term, creative planning is firmly in place.

 

Changing things on the fly and making 11th hour decisions regarding direction, etc will never be a successful formula.

 

PPV's should generally feature one of two things. if not both, in different, main event level bouts, 1. The 'blow off' of a well told storyline or 2. The first bout of a well set up issue. It gets very tricky when one is trying to get multiple, PPV's out of two talents on successive PPV events. It can be done but it's getting harder and harder or so it seems.

 

Storylines need to be simplified and made to be more plausibly believable and relatable to the average fan. That allows for the talents to create a discernable, personal issue and create an emotional investment that is required to manufacture success and to warrant spending more PPV dollars.

 

How some in the business can discount the lack of disposable income for the average Joe to buy monthly PPV's is beyond incredulous to me. Most fans cannot buy 12 PPV's in today's economy...no matter if it be in pro wrestling or MMA.....or both.

Plus, what new talent in the business today is truly "hot?" What new talent(s) provides must see TV and is in a professional ascension? Until someone new gets hot and connects organically with the audience then the shift in the perception of the genre, in general, isn't likely to change any time soon.

 

Stars sell tickets, it's always been that way, and until company's figure out how to commit to making new stars the business is going to on its current course.

 

The good news in another big picture item for WWE is that their TV rights fees are dramatically under valued, another prime example of the old, pro rasslin bias in my view. When WWE TV programming gets what they deserve and what the market will bear, business, at least on the financial side, will definitely pick up.

 

Getting several emails here and Tweets @JRsBBQ about 'deserving' NXT talents not being called up to the main roster in a more timely fashion. Firstly, specifically why are they "deserving?' Secondly, any new talent who's naive enough to think that they can become a star simply by showing up on TV without introductory vignettes and an established game plan in place for the first 12 months of their 'run' is being naive and foolish.

 

If the powers that be cannot agree upon an introductory 12 month plan then the talent is better off staying 'off Broadway' and refining their game.

 

Plus, it's obvious that several TV wrestling talents have arguably overstayed their welcome and either need to go away and regroup or simply just go away. It's not automatic that everyone who's currently appearing on a weekly TV wrestling show deserves to be there or that the business is their calling.

 

Rosters need to change and to be tweaked regularly and to systematically add 'new' talents to the mix. However, that requires that all decision makers make a commitment and to encourage that their support staffs have the courage to stand by their ideas and to also think outside the box.

 

The creative aspect of the sports entertainment genre is one of the most over thought, under achieving elements within the business especially when many fundamental aspects of the business are largely ignored and those within creative are afraid to express themselves or feel compelled to reinvent the wheel in hopes of endearing themselves to those in power.

 

Top talents back in the day had an open door to the bookers who made the decisions regarding the matches and the creative utilized in all bouts because the goal was to sell tickets as that was the way that revenue was generated, by and large. The talents had an agenda, to draw money, in which everyone involved benefited. When the business started becoming more diverse it was thought that a 'writing team' had to be created, then expanded and to eventually to experiment with more 'entertainment' ideas rather than 'competition' ideas which seems, in hind sight, to have been a fundamental mistake.

 

Too many cooks in an unorganized kitchen doesn't produce tasty meals.

 

Decision makers have to establish the long term direction of their companies and then rely on the creative minds within the organizations to help navigate the pre-determined route.

 

The lack of adequate, long term planning in the world of TV pro wrestling creative is the proverbial kiss of death.

 

That issue is followed closely by the lack of talent development as fans of every sport's team and entertainment entity love to have something 'new' added to the mix. (Think the NFL Draft...the introduction or a breakout star in a film, etc.)

 

We live in a society of 'new' and that self indulgent theory isn't likely to change any time soon.

 

Wrestling decision makers have to start looking longer at how an idea might be successful rather than automatically reacting to a suggestion as to why said idea won't work.

 

*******************

 

A lot of not-so-subtle veiled shots in there. But he makes some good points, points that the majority of us have expressed for quite some time. Thought maybe it'd be a decent discussion?

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ingrsco

ingrsco

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Good ol' J.R, baw gawd! 

Based on the WWE conference call this morning, executives were apparently disappointed with the Summer Slam PPV buys and the term 'attraction' was used as the reason. Couldn't agree more. PPV's are all attraction driven and they've always been.However, the more that is given away on free TV and the more free TV that is provided in general the harder it is for attractions to be considered worth spending extra, big bucks on and adding to one's cable or satellite bill.Plus, too often major storylines are 1. over thought and 2. over exposed in largely a 'sameness' presentation on free TV to make them feel special enough for one to want to invest significant money on PPV to see more.I'm a believer that TV ratings can be achieved without giving away multiple, PPV attractions but only if long term, creative planning is firmly in place. Changing things on the fly and making 11th hour decisions regarding direction, etc will never be a successful formula.PPV's should generally feature one of two things. if not both, in different, main event level bouts, 1. The 'blow off' of a well told storyline or 2. The first bout of a well set up issue. It gets very tricky when one is trying to get multiple, PPV's out of two talents on successive PPV events. It can be done but it's getting harder and harder or so it seems.Storylines need to be simplified and made to be more plausibly believable and relatable to the average fan. That allows for the talents to create a discernable, personal issue and create an emotional investment that is required to manufacture success and to warrant spending more PPV dollars.How some in the business can discount the lack of disposable income for the average Joe to buy monthly PPV's is beyond incredulous to me. Most fans cannot buy 12 PPV's in today's economy...no matter if it be in pro wrestling or MMA.....or both.Plus, what new talent in the business today is truly "hot?" What new talent(s) provides must see TV and is in a professional ascension? Until someone new gets hot and connects organically with the audience then the shift in the perception of the genre, in general, isn't likely to change any time soon.Stars sell tickets, it's always been that way, and until company's figure out how to commit to making new stars the business is going to on its current course.The good news in another big picture item for WWE is that their TV rights fees are dramatically under valued, another prime example of the old, pro rasslin bias in my view. When WWE TV programming gets what they deserve and what the market will bear, business, at least on the financial side, will definitely pick up.Getting several emails here and Tweets @JRsBBQ about 'deserving' NXT talents not being called up to the main roster in a more timely fashion. Firstly, specifically why are they "deserving?' Secondly, any new talent who's naive enough to think that they can become a star simply by showing up on TV without introductory vignettes and an established game plan in place for the first 12 months of their 'run' is being naive and foolish.If the powers that be cannot agree upon an introductory 12 month plan then the talent is better off staying 'off Broadway' and refining their game.Plus, it's obvious that several TV wrestling talents have arguably overstayed their welcome and either need to go away and regroup or simply just go away. It's not automatic that everyone who's currently appearing on a weekly TV wrestling show deserves to be there or that the business is their calling.Rosters need to change and to be tweaked regularly and to systematically add 'new' talents to the mix. However, that requires that all decision makers make a commitment and to encourage that their support staffs have the courage to stand by their ideas and to also think outside the box.The creative aspect of the sports entertainment genre is one of the most over thought, under achieving elements within the business especially when many fundamental aspects of the business are largely ignored and those within creative are afraid to express themselves or feel compelled to reinvent the wheel in hopes of endearing themselves to those in power.Top talents back in the day had an open door to the bookers who made the decisions regarding the matches and the creative utilized in all bouts because the goal was to sell tickets as that was the way that revenue was generated, by and large. The talents had an agenda, to draw money, in which everyone involved benefited. When the business started becoming more diverse it was thought that a 'writing team' had to be created, then expanded and to eventually to experiment with more 'entertainment' ideas rather than 'competition' ideas which seems, in hind sight, to have been a fundamental mistake.Too many cooks in an unorganized kitchen doesn't produce tasty meals.Decision makers have to establish the long term direction of their companies and then rely on the creative minds within the organizations to help navigate the pre-determined route.The lack of adequate, long term planning in the world of TV pro wrestling creative is the proverbial kiss of death.That issue is followed closely by the lack of talent development as fans of every sport's team and entertainment entity love to have something 'new' added to the mix. (Think the NFL Draft...the introduction or a breakout star in a film, etc.)We live in a society of 'new' and that self indulgent theory isn't likely to change any time soon.Wrestling decision makers have to start looking longer at how an idea might be successful rather than automatically reacting to a suggestion as to why said idea won't work.

 A lot of not-so-subtle veiled shots in there. But he makes some good points, points that the majority of us have expressed for quite some time. Thought maybe it'd be a decent discussion?
Regarding his PPV thoughts, I used to buy them every month. Now, I only buy the big four aside from the occasional stand out which lately has been waning as well. I find myself on the fence about ordering them, then I find a reason not and upon reading results I am justified in skipping them. The matches seem to have little meaning and just be either thrown together lower card matches or mid card ones and the upper cards matches are the same for three to five ppvs with just different stips.
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jaedmc

jaedmc

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Wha tI like about JR is that it doesn't totally sound like sour grapes. He sounds like he wants it WWE to succeed, he's just criticizing the same stuff everyone pretty much agrees is the problem. What they're doing now, despite a great in-ring product is not working.

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Skelemania

Skelemania

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Wha tI like about JR is that it doesn't totally sound like sour grapes. He sounds like he wants it WWE to succeed, he's just criticizing the same stuff everyone pretty much agrees is the problem. What they're doing now, despite a great in-ring product is not working.

 

Yeah, this is what I feel too. Like, Daniel Bryan is a fantastic worker, no doubt. One of the very best in the entire industry. Has been great for years. Used to watch him all the time in ROH. But in WWE, how much does the actual bell-to-bell in-ring work really matter? All that really matters is the glitz & glam. The characters, the stories & the outcomes of matches. Which, Daniel Bryan is a decent enough "entertainer" when they let him be but all he's doing lately is running around yelling "Yes!" while getting screwed by the guys at the top, then getting overshadowed if he ever does have a "big" moment (like beating Cena) or just getting beatdown by the people telling us that he sucks.

 

I feel the same way about Cody Rhodes. He's hot right now, putting on good matches with Goldust. Had quite a bit of heat from what I could see & hear from the whole story. They had their big moment, got their jobs back, won the tag titles...then just lose to Swagger/Cesaro on free TV. It just doesn't make any sense. If The Real Americas were going to get a push up the tag ranks, and were going to go over the red hot Rhodes brothers, why have The Real Americans lose to Los Matadors on the PPV? WWE are just making everyone losers & it's usually for no rhyme or reason other than to kill an abundance of time that they have to fill up every show.

 

Even-stevens booking, backstage political egos & over-saturation of the amount of WWE readily available are real things.

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Cristobal

Cristobal

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I bought SummerSlam, this year, which was the first time I have paid the full price of a wrestling PPV, ever. I guess what attracts me is not what attracts enough other people.

 Is it Daniel Bryan that attracts you?
Daniel Bryan has been on nearly every WWE PPV for about 3 years now, none of which (until SummerSlam) I paid full price for. He's headlined the 3 WWE PPVs since SummerSlam, none of which I paid full (or any, in fact) price for.Daniel Bryan might be my favorite wrestler right now, but he alone isn't enough to get me to slap fifty to sixty bucks down to watch a few hours of wrestling.
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jaedmc

jaedmc

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I would pay 50-60 bucks to buy a ticket to see Daniel Bryan wrestle in a Hammerstein Ballroom sized space against just about anyone. I don't think I'd pay to watch him in the WWE unless he had just won the Rumble and was facing someone really awesome in the Main Event of Wrestlemania.

 

Nothing in between.

 

It's not a bias against WWE, it's more just - what is there left for me to see him do in the WWE? We already got Bryan/Punk, Bryan/Ziggler, Bryan/Henry and Bryan/Cesaro. He already beat Cena. I'm good. Maybe if he fought Brock. That's about it. There's no guy below him that has my attention in a way that says, "I can't wait to see these guys go for it with all the marbles on the line. ALL THE MARBLES." 

 

And that goes for just about anyone else. I don't even like Cena, but anyone I've wanted to see beat him, I've seen. Punk, Ziggler, and Bryan. 

 

NO ONE feels unbeatable. Not even Cena. It just feels like everyone is politely taking turns being a winner. I don't know what the fuck I want from the WWE, but something just isn't clicking. I rarely ever feel like they support the talent they have, even though they have talent that can put on killer matches. 

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Skelemania

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I think my biggest complaint with current WWE is this: I have certain expectations when I watch certain promotions. Those expectations can certainly change over time (like they did with ROH). When I watch WWE, I expect to see the larger than life atmosphere. I want all the big huge entrances with the Titantron going nuts, loud music blaring, a big crowd going nuts, etc. I want to suspend my disbelief & buy into the show as a whole, all the angles, characters & stories. I've never really tuned into WWE for ring work. I used to purposely seek out other promotions looking for in-ring work because I felt that WWE gave me everything else. Now WWE has great in-ring work...but everything else feels like it's lacking.

 

Where do I go for the big glitz & glam now? Because it seems to have waned in WWE. It's really weird because their whole show still tries to be built off of having big characters, stories & angles but none of the people in those roles can drive the stories or angles. It's a bunch of wrestlers portraying shitty actors. That's not entertaining. They can't keep me glued to the show unless they're actually wrestling. What about all the time when they're NOT wrestling though? That's the problem for me right now. RAW is three hours long, so all of the non-wrestling shit just really sucks & makes me not want to watch.

 

So, I guess I want to see guys that have more non-physical charisma that can drive angles & stories off of mic work alone & better writing. So that I have a reason to care when the bell does finally ring.

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