AEW Scouting Report

[Hustler of Culture]

AEW's first official show was Double or Nothing PPV on May 25, 2019.  Their official Dynamite TV debut was October 2, 2019.  

Full Gear wasn't until November 9, 2019.  At best they gave it 10 shows before they blew their load booking the heel turn.  And that's being generous since the TV show brings far more viewers that can follow along with storylines. 

It's obvious that they didn't think the entire Cody as the mentor and MJF as the student thing out very well and then just said 'fuck it, we'll just turn him heel and get it over with.  Our fans won't mind too much.'

Zbyszko didn't turn on Sammartino for 7 years.  I don't expect for modern televised wrestling to move at that slow of a pace, but 10 shows...some of which MJF and Cody weren't even on the air for...isn't a build to get maximum effect.  And this is symbolic of AEW's booking...their inability to create and sustain any type of momentum to build compelling television that would get more than their 750K/0.30 viewers to watch every week.

Few fans remember the feud and turn now other than being something that happened that was part of normal sports entertainment protocol.  And the response MJF gets as a heel is very pedestrian.  Most fans view him as a guy playing the role of the heel and recognize that he's good at it, but they don't seriously hate him enough to root hard for the babyfaces and want to see MJF get his comeuppance.  
 

 

HoC

[Goodear]

Marq Quen

Marq Quen wins the award for the hardest to spell name with the fewest letters. I swear I look it up every time I write his name down. This means nothing, I just wanted to mention how dumb I am when it comes to 8 letters.

If MJF and Page are the future and Jungle Boy is the long term future, Quen is a lonnnnnng term project. Like when Bret Hart first joined the Hart Foundation in 1985 to be World Champion in 1992 long term. Now obviously so much can happen in seven years that projecting that far off is nearly impossible but it's not nothing. I can't see Isiah Kassidy in the same position for instance but Quen has something more that can help him as his career progresses and his skills mature.

Obviously in his tool box, Quen has some amazing athletic tools. And I know some think calling People of Color great athletes in a dog whistle but I don't know what else you would call it. If anyone else could do a higher, prettier shooting star press I haven't seen it. That they've let so many people kick out of it in the tag team is not what I would do. Even having people break it up would be better than anyone kicking out of it. Regardless, Quen being on the top rope is a thing to behold.

Despite that, Quen does have some bad habits and Private Party as a whole tries to be too cute with multiple combination moves rather than doing simple stuff that looks better. For instance, the 'stand on someone's back as they are on Kassidy's knees and do a shooting star press' requires too much cooperation for me. Private Party does several of those spots and they don't all look particularly good. Being 'teamed' with Matt Hardy should allow them to fix some of these holes if they were guided properly.

[Hustler of Culture]

14 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

I always thought the typical dynamic was mentor is face and student is heel, a la Sammartino/Zbyszko

 

15 minutes ago, Goodear said:

Marq Quen

Marq Quen wins the award for the hardest to spell name with the fewest letters. I swear I look it up every time I write his name down. This means nothing, I just wanted to mention how dumb I am when it comes to 8 letters.

If MJF and Page are the future and Jungle Boy is the long term future, Quen is a lonnnnnng term project. Like when Bret Hart first joined the Hart Foundation in 1985 to be World Champion in 1992 long term. Now obviously so much can happen in seven years that projecting that far off is nearly impossible but it's not nothing. I can't see Isiah Kassidy in the same position for instance but Quen has something more that can help him as his career progresses and his skills mature.

Obviously in his tool box, Quen has some amazing athletic tools. And I know some think calling People of Color great athletes in a dog whistle but I don't know what else you would call it. If anyone else could do a higher, prettier shooting star press I haven't seen it. That they've let so many people kick out of it in the tag team is not what I would do. Even having people break it up would be better than anyone kicking out of it. Regardless, Quen being on the top rope is a thing to behold.

Despite that, Quen does have some bad habits and Private Party as a whole tries to be too cute with multiple combination moves rather than doing simple stuff that looks better. For instance, the 'stand on someone's back as they are on Kassidy's knees and do a shooting star press' requires too much cooperation for me. Private Party does several of those spots and they don't all look particularly good. Being 'teamed' with Matt Hardy should allow them to fix some of these holes if they were guided properly.

I generally agree here although I think Jungle Boy is a longer term project than Quen.  Jungle Boy seems to be a quicker study in the ring, but is very small and has a babyface (no pun intended) that with his lack of size is going to make it hard to become a superstar in today's wrestling.  That worked in the 80's with Rickie Morton in the southeast, but I don't think today's fans will buy into when they were exposed to good looking superstars who were far bigger than Jungle Boy.  

Both Cassidy and Quen are fantastic athletes, but Quen is on the level with Omega athletically...although Omega appears to be much stronger.

I see the similarities to Bret Hart in terms of his potential career path, but Bret had years of experience as a quality singles wrestler that got a main event push in Calgary whereas Quen has mostly stuck to tag team wrestling.

The roadblocks for Quen is that with his lack of singles experience he goes into AEW as a tag wrestler and basically being brought in because the Young Bucks love PP's style of wrestling...which is basically the Young Bucks' style of wrestling.

I'm not down on the Young Bucks in the ring as many people think I am.  I don't even mind all of the superkicks (they're small guys who aren't going to knockout a wrestler with 1 superkick).  But they are very limited in what they can do well and this type of style of tag team wrestling I think will prove to be poor in developing a main event singles wrestler.

In many ways I can see him having a Bubba Ray Dudley type of career path.  BRD had limited singles experience before he became a tag wrestler in ECW which had a very high spot oriented, tornado style of tag wrestling.  Hell, he didn't even know how to properly lock up.  But thru dedication and athleticism he made a career for himself as a tag wrestler and when he went to singles, he wasn't awful but he just wasn't made for superstar, main event status.  And yes, I know he had a run in TNA, but it drew like felons to a police station.


 

 

HoC

[DangerMark]

Jungle Boy is so much further along than Marq Quen, in terms of personality, wrestling ability and name recognition. Quen's billed as having 60lbs on JB, but they're of a height.

I'd agree with that "Long Term Project" tag; he's got way better style than the other guy in Private Party, and I think a little more personality. Stick him with the guy from the Acclaimed who isn't the one rapping, and I reckon you've got the best out of both teams right there. It'd be an easy enough heel turn for him with that hair, just start cribbing Wesley Snipes' lines from Demolition Man.

[Jiji]

20 minutes ago, DangerMark said:

It'd be an easy enough heel turn for him with that hair, just start cribbing Wesley Snipes' lines from Demolition Man.

That would make him an over babyface though.

[AxB]

How tall does everyone think Jungle Boy is? Because I think his lack of bulk is tricking some of you into thinking he's a shorter guy than he is.

Edited December 22, 2020 by AxB
than, not that

[DangerMark]

Taller than Marko Stunt, but shorter than Luchasaurus?

[Goodear]

Not looking I would guess he’s 6’1” or so. He’s thin enough though that him kicking the shit out of someone doesn’t feel right. That’s why I would cast him as someone who works primarily  from underneath where he can gain sympathy.

[Eivion]

35 minutes ago, AxB said:

How tall does everyone think Jungle Boy is? Because I think his lack of bulk is tricking some of you into thinking he's a shorter guy than he is.

He is 5'10

[Goodear]

Matt Jackson

I don't know if people want to hear my usual gripes about the Bucks so I will do a very short version. They are built like the Hardy Boyz but sometimes act like they are John  Cena at his most indestructible. I feel like they'd be better using quickness and smarts to overcome adversaries rather than absorbing lots of offense and walking through it. Since they wrestle a style that emphasizes getting their shit in, it is less effective than just selling and working a smart finish rather than hitting the Metzler Driver (which is a terrible name).

Matt in particular is a surface level seller. He takes the bump, sells the bump, does the same thing he was going to do anyway, and then sells again. There's very little in terms of accumulated selling where his back or knee effects his offense which is what would take him to the next tier of worker. Some of his power spots, notably the rolling Northern Lights suplexes don't fit his appearance. There's very little reason for Matt to do it to two people either which he's been known to do. That feels like something a power wrestler should do and not our perhaps outmanned babyface.

Speaking of babyface, The Bucks semi-heel turn was dumb and I think we can all move past that now. It does point to The Bucks not really being in great feuds and not being able to construct something other than having good matches. For the Bucks fans out there, what's their best feud? Because I'm trying to think of one that built to a climax rather than just having good matches. 

The Bucks' gear is solid and gets the point across but I think it again fits better to the "underdog" babyfaces than the ass kicking tag team the Bucks work as. Matt looks better with a beard than the mutton chops. 

 

[Hustler of Culture]

2 hours ago, Eivion said:

He is 5'10

If that.  There's a google image of Jericho and him together and he looks like he's about a 1/2" shorter than Jericho.

 

 

 

HoC

[Hustler of Culture]

The Bucks are more limited than most fans (that I've come across) think they are.  They are basically wrestle the Tornado style and TLC style of tag team very well.  That great if the promotion's rules are basically geared that way (ala ECW).  The Public Enemy basically kept ECW alive by wrestling that way, but the promotion allowed for it.  When you have a promotion that forces tag teams to follow standard rules then there's a conflict and either the matches don't make sense or they are just poor quality.  

 

I started to see this when they began their feud with the Lucha Brothers in AEW.  Their third match of the feud they had to go to a TLC match and it was obvious that the reason was that fans would get bored of it.  Great tag teams don't need to go to gimmick matches that early in a feud.  The MX didn't need that against the RnR Express or the Fantastics.  The Bulldogs didn't need to go to that against The Hart Foundation or Demolition.  I don't expect long, drawn out feuds of yesteryear, but 3 matches in and going to a gimmick match is really jumping the gun.  And that's what Tony Khan and the Bucks don't comprehend...this isn't the indies where the promotion doesn't have TV and cannot develop characters and storylines so the 'draw' is the in-ring wrestling, athleticism and even doing hardcore matches.  It's better to extend these things a little while otherwise the in-ring wrestling gets stale and the gimmick matches...which have great potential to draw...have no meaning and don't draw nearly as well.

 

The tag division in AEW has been disappointing to me mainly because almost every team wrestles the same style.  There seems to be a real focus on double team moves in AEW, but it often comes at the expense of the credibility of the referee and the rules.  But what annoys me more is the frequency of one wrestler beating the double team.  That should be reserved more for a hot tag that changes the match or maybe to get a small pop from the crowd early in the match.  In AEW it's happens a handful of times in a match and usually with moves that are just too convenient to be believable.

But the superkick thing doesn't bother me at all.  Going to the camera and saying 'best comeback in wrestling' did

The Meltzer Driver I'm not too high on, but the fans really seem to like it and I've seen far worse tag team finishers.  

In all they have been very influenced by video games as it shows in their style where the focus is on spots, double teamsa nd athleticism more than selling and making things look plausible. I do think they can tell a story in a match as I've seen them do it, but the lack of selling and all of these overly-participatory spots turn me off.  I think they could learn a lot from FTR, but will bristle at that notion.

 

They do play the cocky heels pretty well, but with it known that they are execs at the company they have to guard against that or it just comes off like another authority figure type gimmick.  As faces or tweeners, they are god awful on the mic.

 

 

HoC

[John E. Dynamite]

I was wondering what this topic would look like if it had twice the words and half the joy. 

[OSJ]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:10 AM, WholeFnMachine said:

I think we are all preconditioned to expect wrestlers to look a certain way. And I do get it, listen, I'm 44 and I'm in what most would consider to be great shape for my age, HOWEVER, there I guys I train with that are my age or older that put me to absolute shame. And of course much younger dudes as well, and that's what I compare myself to. I know I shouldn't but I do, I was chubby growing up, so there's that. I have a full time job, a wife, and kids and I find time to work out every day. So yeah, sometimes I get aggravated when I see dudes on TV who are paid to fucking wrestle who don't look like they train/eat right. And I get it, it can be part of a gimmick, and it shouldn't have to matter if they can still go, which Chuck absolutely can, but it still does annoy me a bit, I can't help it. Like I could give a fuck if a dude is short or not shredded to the gills, or not a HOSS, but look like you get paid to do what you do. I also notice that people on here have really cracked down on folks body shaming female wrestlers, which as a #GIRLDAD, I think is awesome, however, why is it OK to still body shame male wrestlers? All I ask, of both sexes, is look like you give a fuck and you're putting in the work. Or if you don't maybe find some more flattering gear.

This all said, if you asked me in the 1970s-1980s who I would want to have my back in a bar fight, the answer without hesitation was "Harley Race"

[OSJ]

3 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

If that.  There's a google image of Jericho and him together and he looks like he's about a 1/2" shorter than Jericho.

 

 

 

HoC

I'm 5'11, Jericho is ever-so-much slightly shorter than I am.

[zendragon]

Bucks kinda remind me of Sabu in 1995 matches built around high spots, no real psychology to speak of, but admittedly there is an audience for that

[Jiji]

Is it 2011? We still on the Bucks no psychology train?

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

"The Bucks are nothing but spot machines," "The Bucks can't/won't sell," and "The Bucks don't understand pacing and psychology" are obviously worn out lazy tropes. They are a dead giveaway that the person using them isn't actually paying attention.

Admittedly, I used to say the same things myself, right up until Dominion 6.9.2018 at Osaka Jo. Matt spent six whole months selling his back injury from Wrestle Kingdom right up until their match with EVIL & Sanada. That match was a masterpiece of selling and storytelling, including the Bucks having to adjust to fighting bigger guys, and Nick having his foot injured. From that point on, if not earlier, anyone who repeated those old tropes was obviously not paying attention.

I mean, the match at Full Gear was similarly built around a Bucks injury, this time the Pillmanized ankle. It's baffling how anyone could have watched that match and continued to fall back on "The Bucks don't sell" and "They don't get psychology and storytelling, all they do is spots."

It's obviously no longer the case. It hasn't been the case for almost three years now. Well past time to let that nonsense go.

Edited December 23, 2020 by El Gran Gordi

[AxB]

4 minutes ago, El Gran Gordi said:

It's obviously no longer the case. It hasn't been the case for almost three years now. Well past time to let that nonsense go.

Some people cling to nonsense like their lives depend on it, brother.

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

The Bucks are more limited than most fans (that I've come across) think they are.  They are basically wrestle the Tornado style and TLC style of tag team very well.  That great if the promotion's rules are basically geared that way (ala ECW).  The Public Enemy basically kept ECW alive by wrestling that way, but the promotion allowed for it.  When you have a promotion that forces tag teams to follow standard rules then there's a conflict and either the matches don't make sense or they are just poor quality.  

 

 

4-5 other people have already disputed this but come on man.  They got over in New Japan where they absolutely did not work PWG style spotfests.  You need to reverse that first sentence.  The Bucks are more talented than guys who parrot Cornette talking points say they are. 

[Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta]

The Bucks aren't my cup of tea but I've seen enough to know the "can't work/sell" point has been beaten to death. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Jimbo_Tsuruta

[Craig H]

Man, just what this thread needed, more RASSLINGOPINIONZ4U from whoever the fuck this dude who is likely to be another EN090 account is.

[Jenalysis]

6 hours ago, Jiji said:

Is it 2011? We still on the Bucks no psychology train?

 

The R3K match in 2018 showed how good the Bucks can be when they actually do psychology. 

[DangerMark]

It's official: there's nothing new to say about the Young Bucks. I'm not sure I ought to bother adding my twopenn'orth, but this is the Internet, what else is it for?

They do some stuff I don't like, but some stuff that I do. They dress like prats but their big matches usually deliver. For better and for worse, the AEW Tag Division is, was and always will be patterned after them. They are better heels than faces.

I can never tell just how self aware they are, and if they are, does it matter? They still do daffy self-indulgent crap. They absolutely delight in trolling fuddy-duddies, which is both good and bad.

And please, for the love of whatever gods there might be: let's not do this again when we go through the Ns.

[Goodear]

What a fun evening everyone must of had tearing down other people's motivations without adding anything of substance. I'm sure hope everyone didn't get tired.

Quote

 I was wondering what this topic would look like if it had twice the words and half the joy. 

And I was so hoping someone would join in with a pithy one sentence reply!  We both got what we wanted! YAY! I sure hope this wasn't too long a reply for you to read.

Quote

Is it 2011? We still on the Bucks no psychology train?

True things no longer true if its been said for a long time. Hogan didn't fall into the same pattern for his finishing runs anymore folks! We've been making that argument TOO LONG.

9 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

"The Bucks are nothing but spot machines," "The Bucks can't/won't sell," and "The Bucks don't understand pacing and psychology" are obviously worn out lazy tropes. They are a dead giveaway that the person using them isn't actually paying attention.

Admittedly, I used to say the same things myself, right up until Dominion 6.9.2018 at Osaka Jo. Matt spent six whole months selling his back injury from Wrestle Kingdom right up until their match with EVIL & Sanada. That match was a masterpiece of selling and storytelling, including the Bucks having to adjust to fighting bigger guys, and Nick having his foot injured. From that point on, if not earlier, anyone who repeated those old tropes was obviously not paying attention.

I mean, the match at Full Gear was similarly built around a Bucks injury, this time the Pillmanized ankle. It's baffling how anyone could have watched that match and continued to fall back on "The Bucks don't sell" and "They don't get psychology and storytelling, all they do is spots."

It's obviously no longer the case. It hasn't been the case for almost three years now. Well past time to let that nonsense go.

I figured out the quote function. Yes, I am lazy. I did not watch a match from the Bucks in 2018 in another promotion in another country. You caught me! I tried to sneak past the fact that I didn't watch one match from a year and a half ago that clearly disproves my point. Or, or hear me out here. I've watched The Young Bucks in AEW where just two weeks ago when Matt pulled a Cody, no sold Angelico's finish on that super well sold knee that you just brought up and did his usual shit. Let me put it this way, if "name NFL quarterback here" throws five touchdowns one game and averages 1 touchdown and 3 interceptions a game, you don't look at the good game and pretend the average doesn't exist. On average, Matt doesn't sell accumulated damage to the point where it effects his offense. Congratulations, you made arguments though! Most people didn't bother.

9 hours ago, AxB said:

Some people cling to nonsense like their lives depend on it, brother.

Like AEW is super good (because its not WWE you see) and if it's bad its okay because they are all friends and maybe it was on purpose? Because I have seen those arguments.

9 hours ago, Technico Support said:

4-5 other people have already disputed this but come on man.  They got over in New Japan where they absolutely did not work PWG style spotfests.  You need to reverse that first sentence.  The Bucks are more talented than guys who parrot Cornette talking points say they are. 

Cornette is a raging douche bag who won't give any credit to someone he doesn't like. He barely pays attention to the shows he reviews and fast forwards through most of it. I try to give people fair shakes based on their wrestling and nothing else. Notice I don't mention Trump at all in this whole thread. I also didn't plug anything. I also don't think I said anyone wasn't talented in 13 pages except maybe Luther who has no talents. Also New Japan isn't AEW and I don't give a shit how over they were over there.

5 hours ago, Craig H said:

Man, just what this thread needed, more RASSLINGOPINIONZ4U from whoever the fuck this dude who is likely to be another EN090 account is.

Craig. Buddy. Pal. This ad hom horseshit is beneath you. Someone having opinions you don't agree with and actually writing them down on a wrestling forum is not trolling. If you don't like the opinions that have been expressed in a clear manner, you can disagree with them. But don't be all, "my opinion is the clearly correct one so if you disagree, you're faking it." If CoH or I are doing it for the lulz, we're putting in a lot more work than needed to get a rise out of people.