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Reach Out, Touch Faith - SDL - 11/20/2020


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4 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Credit where credit is due,I'm looking forward to Roman/Drew more than any WWE PPV main event in a long time.

Same. I'll be watching it live from midnight. Bloody time difference makes you feel like a zombie.

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1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

How can WWE do so much, so wrong, yet absolutely crush it with Roman like they are. That was an incredible segment.


because for 5 years everyone else has been an afterthought at best while getting Roman over/getting Roman right has been their only priority, and after all this time they've finally run out of wrong ideas on how to do that and are stuck resorting to what always would've worked all along.

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6 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:


because for 5 years everyone else has been an afterthought at best while getting Roman over/getting Roman right has been their only priority, and after all this time they've finally run out of wrong ideas on how to do that and are stuck resorting to what always would've worked all along.

This. Still remember "suffering succotash". Bloody hell.

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Seth/Murphy & Bryan/Jey were pretty enjoyable.

The Asuka/Sasha segment didn't do much for me though I enjoyed another cheap attack by Mella.

Not sure why Roman/Drew was not the end of the show. It was easily the highlight.

2 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

How can WWE do so much, so wrong, yet absolutely crush it with Roman like they are. That was an incredible segment.

I assume because Vince finally stopped getting in the way. I also assume Roman & Paul probably have a lot do with how the current story is going. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bryan and Cesaro on the creative team has helped somewhat. Bryan is supposedly the one behind Jey's push.

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I really liked the Sasha Banks/Asuka segment. Sasha wanting to fight Asuka right now instead of Survivor Series going barefoot, showed her fighting spirit. Why wait? You get another sneak attack by Carmella and Asuka not stepping in to help her opponent at the Survivor Series. 

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

 

I assume because Vince finally stopped getting in the way. I also assume Roman & Paul probably have a lot do with how the current story is going. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bryan and Cesaro on the creative team has helped somewhat. Bryan is supposedly the one behind Jey's push.

I've been theorizing the same about Roman having more creative freedom and Heyman having input in what he's been involved. I knew Bryan was apart of the creative team, had no idea Cesaro was too. I know Heyman played a big role in his initial push which was really good before the shutdown happened.

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That Roman promo is nearly six years old. Let that dead horse become fertilizer.

Why this version of Roman works is because of what he's been through over the past five years. Dealing with Vince and fans alike, his cancer returning, taking time off due to the pandemic, having McIntyre claim that Roman abandoned WWE during last week's promo. When, as Heyman spelled out in August, it was WWE that took Roman for granted.

It eventually came to a point. Roman is taking everything that's happened to him in his singles career and molding it to fit his still-new domineering persona. It's the right blend of story and reality. 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

That Roman promo is nearly six years old. Let that dead horse become fertilizer.

Why this version of Roman works is because of what he's been through over the past five years. Dealing with Vince and fans alike, his cancer returning, taking time off due to the pandemic, having McIntyre claim that Roman abandoned WWE during last week's promo. When, as Heyman spelled out in August, it was WWE that took Roman for granted.

It eventually came to a point. Roman is taking everything that's happened to him in his singles career and molding it to fit his still-new domineering persona. It's the right blend of story and reality. 

I been saying for years that alot of the rejection Roman got came as a result of CM Punk on Colt Cabanas podcast. When the smart crowd started rejecting Roman,  majority of the Adult audience followed suit. Don't get me wrong,  Roman wasn't given the best material to work with and Vince really forced him down the peoples throughts at the same time the audience was rejecting Roman in rebellion to McMahan. As a booker, your job its to try push a person with out it being so painfully desperate, no matter how smart your fan base is. 

I also believe that the fans weren't ready to move on from Bryan as the top guy, my self included, especially since he hadn't had a long enough run as the Champ. Vince was already ready to move on from Bryan and it was so obvious by the fact that he wasn't in the '15 Rumble match.

I believe that if Punk hadn't left the way he did, Roman wouldn't have struggled so much to get over. I'm a fan of Punk and I support his decision to leave  when he did, but I know him burying Roman did alot to hurt him as far as initially getting over.

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5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I believe that if Punk hadn't left the way he did, Roman wouldn't have struggled so much to get over. I'm a fan of Punk and I support his decision to leave  when he did, but I know him burying Roman did alot to hurt him as far as initially getting over.

This is a really good observation.

I agree with you that Punk didn’t do Roman any favors, but I also think this could have been overcome with better booking.

I don’t think it’s playing Monday morning QB to say Roman’s booking was horrible for a long period. We could all see how bad it was as it was happening. If they course corrected, they probably could have ended up where they wanted to w/Roman after a year, two at most. But it’s taken soooo muuuuch looooooooonger.

I don’t think it would be crazy to say that if it weren’t for Punk, Roman still would’ve had a hard time getting over with what he was given. Maybe not AS bad, but as @Ziggy mentioned, the desperation attached to his push was very, very stinky.

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9 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

That Roman promo is nearly six years old. Let that dead horse become fertilizer.

Why this version of Roman works is because of what he's been through over the past five years. Dealing with Vince and fans alike, his cancer returning, taking time off due to the pandemic, having McIntyre claim that Roman abandoned WWE during last week's promo. When, as Heyman spelled out in August, it was WWE that took Roman for granted.

It eventually came to a point. Roman is taking everything that's happened to him in his singles career and molding it to fit his still-new domineering persona. It's the right blend of story and reality. 

This is all fair and logical but let's not sleep on the fact that Roman plays a smarmy asshole REALLY well. I think that's the single biggest factor in the success of this incarnation.

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To me, the biggest issues with Roman's stature/positioning always comes back to not giving him a clean W over Brock Lesnar on two separate WrestleManias.

At WM31, I think Vince decided it was better to throw a curveball than to potentially have Roman get a negative response by beating Lesnar and so we had the Rollins steal. In hindsight, during the match, Reigns didn't look out of place or undeserving of his would-be "anointing." The trigger could have been pulled then, but I understand why they opted not to.

At WM34, I'm not sure I've ever heard an argument for or what the reasoning was behind Reigns losing to Brock. 

And then, in the past two years, he's put over Seth Rollins (twice?) and Drew McIntyre and Goldberg, right? Like, they basically sacrificed Roman to secure Lesnar's position, but then turned around had him job to lesser talent anyway. And while one could say that Roman got his wins back (I think he beat Lesnar at a SummerSlam somewhere in there), a win at SummerSlam is not the same thing as losing in the main event of WrestleMania on two separate occasions to the same guy. 

So, yes, this is the best and coolest version of the Roman Reigns character we've seen, but I still view him as being a notch below what Cena was and more than a few notches below his cousin, Austin, Brock, etc. 

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On 11/21/2020 at 5:52 PM, Ziggy said:

I been saying for years that alot of the rejection Roman got came as a result of CM Punk on Colt Cabanas podcast. When the smart crowd started rejecting Roman,  majority of the Adult audience followed suit. Don't get me wrong,  Roman wasn't given the best material to work with and Vince really forced him down the peoples throughts at the same time the audience was rejecting Roman in rebellion to McMahan. As a booker, your job its to try push a person with out it being so painfully desperate, no matter how smart your fan base is. 

I also believe that the fans weren't ready to move on from Bryan as the top guy, my self included, especially since he hadn't had a long enough run as the Champ. Vince was already ready to move on from Bryan and it was so obvious by the fact that he wasn't in the '15 Rumble match.

I believe that if Punk hadn't left the way he did, Roman wouldn't have struggled so much to get over. I'm a fan of Punk and I support his decision to leave  when he did, but I know him burying Roman did alot to hurt him as far as initially getting over.

Doubt anyone really gave a fuck really about a marginal podcast or smart-fans take. Cena was literally despised (vocally in arenas and otherwise) by the ‘smart crowd’ for years while still being one of the biggest golden goose of all eternity’s geese. The stories, presentation & execution just sucked on every level, pure and simple. Right now they are pretty golden.

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4 hours ago, A_K said:

Doubt anyone really gave a fuck really about a marginal podcast or smart-fans take. Cena was literally despised (vocally in arenas and otherwise) by the ‘smart crowd’ for years while still being one of the biggest golden goose of all eternity’s geese. The stories, presentation & execution just sucked on every level, pure and simple. Right now they are pretty golden.

Cena was ridiculously over with the Kids and the women that it didn't matter if the Older fans rejected him. He still had the highest selling merchandise. When Cena became the Ace, Vince decided he was going get Cena over to the whole Audience instead of turning him heel. I don't think it wasn't till Cena became a part timer that he started winning most of the adult fans. I believe Vince was insisted In getting Roman over without being forced to turn him heel but I think Roman knows he's such as a good heel that he felt like thats what he needs to do. Roman was very over with the Ladies and Kids like Cena maybe not to Cenas level but enough that he was clearly the top merch pusher. When he finally turns back He'll be much more over and its making him an overall better talker

Yes it was a marginal podcast listened to by only the most hardcore of internet fans but that vocal minority have been so influential to the live crowd

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