The 40 Best Spider-Man Stories.

[twiztor]

7 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder if your perspective on its length comes from reading At one time and not living through week by week. 
 

i often wonder how people reading stuff decades later see things differently without the delays in books like  Sandman, Watchmen and Camelot 3000.

d'oh! i meant to mention that it absolutely, 100%, made a difference reading it in a short span versus over almost two years. Also, knowing the length before starting the storylines changes how you go into something like this. That, and what your preconceived notions of Ben Reilly are, would cause the biggest swings on how you would look at this story. 

That being said, this big overall story saw a LOT of interconnection between the titles- it became a regular thing that a story would start in Spectacular, continue into Web of and adjectiveless, and conclude in Amazing. That would occasionally happen before, but it started happening a lot. I think that also played with people's perceptions ("i used to only read Amazing, but now i have to read 4x the number of books"). 

[odessasteps]

I presume the Superman triangle books preceded these, but not 100% sure.

it was definitely a marketing strategy at the time.

[The Natural]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:20 PM, twiztor said:

re: the Clone Saga

i finished the big clone read yesterday, so this will be a long post. The Clone Saga was the #1 reason i wanted to read all of the Spider-Man comics. And now i've read it. I'm sure there will be some fallout in the next few storylines, but it's largely over. 

Long story short, i really enjoyed it. I never felt like it overstayed its welcome or dragged on too long- i think that feeling is from diehard Pete fans that couldn't accept the new "status quo". Marvel gave Pete his happy ending. He lost his Spider powers, got to "retire" from superheroics, and live a happy life as a scientist with his model wife and soon-to-be-born baby daughter. They had also pushed so many of "his" villains to the background, and killed off a number of them- Kraven, Doc Ock, and especially Green Goblin/Harry Osborne. If Pete's story was going to end, this was an excellent way to go about that. 

But obviously the Spider-Man stories can't end. Enter Ben Reilly, the lost clone of Pete that was thought dead 5 years ago. They brought him back, conclusively proved that HE was the original (Pete and Ben did all the testing themselves and double checked each other's conclusions). Meet the new hero, same as the old hero. I thought it was extremely well done and did a lot to really make this feel permanent. the introduction of Kaine, a flawed clone, was also fine. I really connected with Ben and his struggles. the two miniseries by JM DeMetteis did SO MUCH for fleshing out his Missing Years and feeling his frustrations. The way that he still basically does what Pete would do, but thinks and acts slightly differently is just really note perfect.  

A lot of the villains created for this were weird. The "great game" was fine. i kinda hope it picks back up with Pete, but i also kinda hope it doesn't. Lady Doc Ock was good, got a good amount of attention, but still felt very underdeveloped. a number of old villains randomly being updated by new tech and cybernetics (Scorpion, Vulture, and especially Hobgoblin) just seemed odd. All of that being said, i didn't think any of that was BAD, just that it didn't feel as organic. 

the stories that stand out the most to me were the Pete/Ben stories. really showed a difference between these men and built up their brotherly relationship. Except for when Pete started working with Jackal, that was ridiculous. thankfully, it didn't last long.

Now, to the ending. "Revelations" (Spectacular #240, Sensational #11, Amazing #418, Spider-Man #75). What a mess. Everything we've built over the last 18 months is just tossed aside like yesterday's trash. And it was all a Green Goblin (Norman) plot. WTF? the reveal and the ending come out of nowhere and don't make any sense. Norman's explanations don't jive with what was depicted in the books for the past year plus. I have to believe that even diehard Pete fans know that the story was terrible, but at least the end result got what they wanted.

short rant:

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Ben dies by getting stabbed by the Goblin glider, proving that he's inferior to Pete (since Pete jumped out of the way originally). There was zero reason for him to not be able to Spider-Sense the glider coming. Then he falls off a roof and turns to dust, essentially proving that he was always the clone. Except that no other dead clone has turned to dust- not Kaine, not the skeleton they found in the smokestack, not any of the "Maximum Clonage" bodies, not any of the Jackal clones. It just screamed out to me "we're done with this and we give up. sorry. reset button." bullshit ending. 

and don't get me started on the way Norman kills or kidnaps Pete and MJ's baby. holy fuck. what a gut punch, and i have a feeling that i won't be satisfied with how any fallout happens.

 

My first introduction to Spider-Man comics was through a monthly UK book reprinting Spider-Man stories, the older material with Peter Parker and the 1990s Clone Saga. The second Clone Saga is a mixed bag. I like Ben Reilly and Kaine Parker, Peter teaming with Ben and TASM #400. The latter was the way for Aunt May to bow out. The two miniseries by JM DeMatteis who did such a carry job during the Clone Saga.

The bad: Peter Parker acting out of character including working with the Jackal. That's awful and him back handing his own wife, Mary Jane Watson which I forgot about. It's too long and too convoluted. Norman Osborn should have stayed dead in The Night Gwen Stacy Died/The Goblin's Last Stand in TASM #121-122. The Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) is Spider-Man's greatest enemy but that was the perfect sendoff. Grief of Parker losing Gwen Stacy and wants to kill Norman but comes to his senses, Osborn does at the hands of his own glider and MJ stays to console Peter in the epilogue. You're right to rant about the ending and you won't be regarding the part I bolded. Thought to give you a basic heads up.

How far you reading up to again, bud?

Edited January 15, 2022 by The Natural

[twiztor]

3 hours ago, The Natural said:

You're right to rant about the ending and you won't be regarding the part I bolded. Thought to give you a basic heads up.

How far you reading up to again, bud?

i appreciate the head's up. i assumed that they were just going to handwave the baby away now that the story's over. TBH, that really pisses me off. the death of a child is a traumatic experience and should never be used as a "reset" or cheap storytelling device. 

My plan was to read up until they relaunch Amazing Spider-Man, so the last issue would be #441 (i'm at #418 now, so about 2 more years worth of stories). But it's been a few days and i'm still upset about the ending to the clone story. I'm reading some other stuff right now (about to finish Snyder's run on Justice League). i may not come back to finish up Spidey. the whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Regardless, i'll still get around to Superior sooner or later (but it definitely dropped down on my priority read list).

[The Natural]

38 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i appreciate the head's up. i assumed that they were just going to handwave the baby away now that the story's over. TBH, that really pisses me off. the death of a child is a traumatic experience and should never be used as a "reset" or cheap storytelling device. 

My plan was to read up until they relaunch Amazing Spider-Man, so the last issue would be #441 (i'm at #418 now, so about 2 more years worth of stories). But it's been a few days and i'm still upset about the ending to the clone story. I'm reading some other stuff right now (about to finish Snyder's run on Justice League). i may not come back to finish up Spidey. the whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Regardless, i'll still get around to Superior sooner or later (but it definitely dropped down on my priority read list).

No worries for the head's up. I agree with you. If things are done sensitively and respectfully, fair play but when something's exploitive, no.

I have to say the next two years worth of reading isn't good and the ending of TASM (Vol. 1) is really bad. If you're going to read Spider-Man stories after then and sticking to Earth-616, I recommend in chronological order:

• The Amazing Spider-Man: Coming Home. The Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #30-35.
• The Conversation. The Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #38.
• Big Time. The Amazing Spider-Man #648-651.
• Doctor Octopus is Dead. Avenging Spider-Man #15.1.
• The Superior Foes of Spider-Man. The Superior Foes of Spider-Man #1-17.
• Finale. Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #310.

I've bolded the must reads. @Matt D will second Finale from Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #310.

[twiztor]

it's been about 2 weeks since i finished the Clone Saga. I've been reading some other stuff (X-Men: Trial of Magneto, X-Men: Inferno, Scott Snyder's Justice League, a couple 3-4 issue minis), but i dipped my toe back into Spider-Man today. Read "Hobgoblin Lives" and the next month's worth of stories in the monthly books. the Hobgoblin story was alright. More of a retcon and explanation that an actual story. the monthly books, yeah. i think my Spidey reading days are over. Outside of a panel every now and again (seriously, maybe 5 panels in 10-12 books), they've completely gone back to "business as usual". Meaning all of the Ben Reilly stuff, all of the "Pete works full-time as a scientist", and worst of all, the killed/kidnapped baby are all just washed away and forgotten. i am disgusted by this, and it remains at the forefront of my mind as i'm reading these stories. 

goodbye, Spider-Man. it was a hell of a fun ride while it lasted.