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NOV 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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IIRC, Hogan's 1987 Survivor Series team originally had Superstar Graham instead of Muraco -- Muraco stepped in when Graham was "injured" by OMG and Reed. The Hogan team with Graham instead of Muraco would have been far worse -- presumably Graham and Reed would have brawled to the back for a double countout, as I can't imagine Graham taking any bumps.

The whole point of that main event was to give Bigelow the shine -- having him go 1-on-3 against Andre, Bundy and OMG, and nearly pulling off the miracle. It's a shame the WWF didn't move that along further (given all the backstage politics involving Savage, HTM and the IC belt heading into 1988, I do wonder that if Honky agreed to drop the IC Belt to Savage on NBC Main Event, and the original plans of DiBiase winning the belt in the WM4 tournament went forward, if said final would have been DiBiase-Bigelow, with Bigelow getting the "Savage run" of four matches).

I also wish they played up the "do they trust each other" angles with Hogan-Orndorff and Savage-Steamboat. All I recall is Hogan and Savage telling Orndorff and Steamboar that they don't care for them, but they both hate Heenan and HTM respectively so it's all good. I was 12 at the time and thought that was dumb. Having, say, Steamboat play Ricky Morton and have Savage show reluctance to accept his tag (with the announcers screaming if Savage could let bygones be bygones for the sake of the team) would have made decent theater.

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41 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Ok, so that explains that one. And we all know what was the deal with Barry and Tully, respectively.

Tully - failed a drug test right before the PPV (might have been day of ppv) and was fired.  Replaced by Heenan.

Barry - Father and brother (Blackjack Mulligan and Kendall Windham) were running a counterfeiting ring and were arrested by the feds in late '89.  Barry either left or was asked to leave after the arrest.

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20 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Excepting "Ric Flair is a better Buddy Rogers than Buddy Rogers was," who is the first wrestler who you'd think of as better than the wrestler they modeled themselves upon?

 

For me, it's Scott Steiner being a better Superstar Billy Graham than Billy Graham could ever be. 

 

Roided-up maniac Steiner stumbling over his words and his rage while also peppering them with legitimately funny or cutting gems is enduring. I just watched a bunch of his mic/skit highlights from TNA the other day and I hadn't seen much of it because I haven't watched TNA since the Kong/Kim/Wilde days where they had hot feuds for their Women's Championship. It's just endlessly entertaining bluster. Immobile Steiner is also still a considerably more fun in-ring talent. 

Don't threaten me with a good time. 

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Tully - failed a drug test right before the PPV (might have been day of ppv) and was fired.  Replaced by Heenan.

Barry - Father and brother (Blackjack Mulligan and Kendall Windham) were running a counterfeiting ring and were arrested by the feds in late '89.  Barry either left or was asked to leave after the arrest.

Indeed.

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39 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Apparently Kylie Rae has retired.  Man, can we just wrap 2020 in some foil and shoot it into the sun?

She's retiring because she's 'unwell'. She does mention fulfilling tiers on her Patreon when she feels better and it's wrestling so retirements come and go, perhaps it's not the last we've seen of her but I just hope she finds peace outside of wrestling.

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Is she the biggest example of a young wrestler retiring early because of emotional or mental struggles? I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more with high profile athletes. 

I mean, drugs abuse can be a manifestation of difficulties and certainly that has derailed many an athlete but this is certainly a unique situation. 

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10 minutes ago, Hagan said:

Is she the biggest example of a young wrestler retiring early because of emotional or mental struggles? I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more with high profile athletes. 

I mean, drugs abuse can be a manifestation of difficulties and certainly that has derailed many an athlete but this is certainly a unique situation. 

I think it does happen, but we don't call it that.  Jamarcus Russell got fat and addicted to codeine, but we call that lazy and irresponsible.  Johnny Manziel seemed to have no concept on how to be an adult, let alone a high profile athlete in the public eye.  One of the most successful athletes of our lifetime had to have his mother make a chart to hide in his closet to show him how to dress himself.  Peyton Manning was praised for this, when it's a pretty strong indication of an extreme level of immaturity.  Have you ever heard of Michael Beasley?  He was the 2nd pick in the NBA draft in 2008, and is a highly skilled, left handed, 6'10" scorer.  I would have bet money that he would be a multiple time all-star in 2008, but he's been a laughingstock because of what is pretty clearly some mental and or emotional struggles.  

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3 minutes ago, supremebve said:

  One of the most successful athletes of our lifetime had to have his mother make a chart to hide in his closet to show him how to dress himself.  

Who was this? Manning?

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1 minute ago, Hagan said:

Who was this? Manning?

Yep, Peyton Manning.  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/10/04/peyton-manning-best-stories-youve-never-heard/731585001/

Quote

Michael Silver (longtime NFL reporter): [Silver was a senior writer for Sports Illustrated in 1999 when the magazine assigned him to profile the Colts’ precocious young star. Silver’s portrait was one of the most revealing of Manning ever done. For all his on-field acumen — Manning was in the midst of flipping the Colts’ 3-13 record his rookie year to a sizzling 13-3 in 1999 — he struggled with a handful of elementary domestic tasks. Among them: dressing himself (mom Olivia sent him Polaroids with outfit ideas), hooking up a DVD player, even opening a can of soup.]

I just couldn’t believe how openly lost he was in terms of nonfootball things, in a super-endearing and vulnerable way. Talking to (then-girlfriend, now-wife) Ashley definitely helped a lot. She was able to poke fun in an affectionate but brutal way. The access was incredible. We just drove over to St. Elmo’s and hung out, then we went to his apartment. He was literally showing me these Polaroids that his mom had sent him showing him what outfits to wear. They were in this little envelope. This is a guy who today is viewed as a potential senator! And of course there was the time (in college) he asked Ashley to call and order Chinese food for him.

 

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3 hours ago, Eoae said:

Tully - failed a drug test right before the PPV (might have been day of ppv) and was fired.  Replaced by Heenan.

Barry - Father and brother (Blackjack Mulligan and Kendall Windham) were running a counterfeiting ring and were arrested by the feds in late '89.  Barry either left or was asked to leave after the arrest.

To be fair - Heenan f'n made that match. 

He was tremendous.

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I watched the Kylie Rae "shoot" she did with Ethan Page which I assume was near the 2nd to last IMPACT PPV and given that as soon as she started things in the business she was accused of stealing her name from Kay Lee Ray with social media coming after her.   You can see how this business will drive you a little crazy when you didn't really do anything wrong.   Then you have the AEW situation which nobody still knows what happened there.    She hasn't had it as easy as people think she has.

 

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2 hours ago, hammerva said:

I watched the Kylie Rae "shoot" she did with Ethan Page which I assume was near the 2nd to last IMPACT PPV and given that as soon as she started things in the business she was accused of stealing her name from Kay Lee Ray with social media coming after her.   You can see how this business will drive you a little crazy when you didn't really do anything wrong.   Then you have the AEW situation which nobody still knows what happened there.    She hasn't had it as easy as people think she has.

 

“Stole her name from Kay Lee Ray”

Give me a goddam break. Social media is hell on earth. I feel bad for today’s generation, they need to have social media to get their name out, but the trade off is that you have to deal with some absolute idiots.

Kay Lee Ray probably didn’t care one iota that someone halfway around the world, who has a totally different style and look had a name that sounded phonetically similar to her own!

 

 

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11 hours ago, Shartnado said:

To my 10(ish) year old eyes Muraco, Patera and Orndorff were over and Hogan and Bigelow seemed like an unbeatable couple! I was very new to it at the time, but Muraco was a bull, Orndorff had stood toe to toe against Hogan recently and Patera was an Olympian with a bear hug and a full nelson that crushed you! I do agree with Honky's team being shit and the team he had the year after wasn't THAT much better. It seemed like they never stood a chance in '87 OR '88. 

Yeah but even as a kid I thought Andre's Team was absolutely stacked.   I was rooting for Bam Bam to run the table of course but team was too big, too stacked. 

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since I started with Survivor Series 1991 I'm always going to have a soft spot for Flair's Faux Horsemen.  Dibiase was completely different from Arn but he was comparable in prestige and card prominence that he was similarly "could/should be his own faction head, that he's the clear #2 shows how stacked these guys are" to Anderson, and while Jacques was no Tully workrate wise and "The Mountie" is too cartoon for the Horsemen aura, Jacques is a first ballot entry into the Obnoxious Loudmouth Jackass Hall Of Fame and certainly comparable to Tully in having a natural "when is somebody finally going to shut this guy up?" punchable face

and, eh, The Warlord wasn't any worse than some of the other schlubs who ever held down the revolving door at the 4 slot.

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35 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

and, eh, The Warlord wasn't any worse than some of the other schlubs who ever held down the revolving door at the 4 slot.

He really was, though. Sid, Roma, and even Mongo were better than Warlord.

Edited by mattdangerously
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On 11/1/2020 at 4:20 PM, Eoae said:

I don't really see the Usos > Wild Samoans comparison, either in terms of gimmick or in-ring style.  They've thankfully never really done the "savage" characters most Samoans (and Tongans and Fijians and....) get stuck with.  They debuted on the main roster as preppy anti-Samoans.  They did go through a couple years where they wore face paint and did the siva tau as part of their entrance, but they didn't wrestle like the SST or Wild Samoans.  Their style's always be more of a modern indie style (lots of superkicks, dives, high-flying).  Wild Samoans were basically brawlers.  SST too.  And the Usos have never had the air of invincibility the SST and Wild Samoans had (as well as Umaga, Barbarian, Haku, etc; another "wrestling savage" staple: dishing out punishment while being almost impervious to it).

Even when they wore the facepaint, I thought the presentation was closer to the Rock's than any other Samoan wrestler or team.

SST - I refuse to remember them as the Headshrinkers - were definitely a better version of Afa and Sika.  ST w/ Paul E. are still one of my favorite acts.

Lol, now I kinda want to see the Usos smash a coconut over a jobber's head like the SST did, then eat the pieces. 

Outside of basic training, Uso's were pretty much brought up in the WWE system, right? I wonder what led them to work a pretty go go go style while being pretty much WWE guys. They're one of the teams that I think could work anywhere in the world if they ever leave WWE, they have size and are pretty good in the ring.

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In 1988 they did co-captains and the Andre-Dino Bravo team was bad ass, those two along with Perfect, Race and Rude. I guess the Jake-Duggan team had the auto-draft on for the late round picks since they ended up with over the hill Ken Patera and jobber Scott Casey to go along with the always dependable Tito Santana. 
 

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So I was looking at some wrestler's Wikipedia pages earlier for no particular reason. Everyone under AEW contract has their own page now, although in many cases their indie careers are just like a couple of lines. Except for this one thing, anyone who spent any appreciable time in Chikara has these endless huge behemoth paragraphs detailing their entire history in the promotion, matches, angles, all of it. And all of it in much greater detail than even a devoted Chikara fan would probably care to know about. Certainly more detail than someone who only knew them from AEW would be bothered with.

I mean, who in the World would not only remember all that stuff with such great accuracy, but also care enough about it, to actually take the time to write it all up and add it to these guy's Wiki pages?

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1 hour ago, Ramo2653 said:

Outside of basic training, Uso's were pretty much brought up in the WWE system, right? I wonder what led them to work a pretty go go go style while being pretty much WWE guys. They're one of the teams that I think could work anywhere in the world if they ever leave WWE, they have size and are pretty good in the ring.

They spent a lot of time in Booker's PWA promotion in Houston (now ROW). I remember they had a name like "The Yin-Yang Twins" or something very similar. Working style was pretty much the same though.

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