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So I didn't want to bring outside factors into why I don't like a wrestler.  But due to recent events might as well.  As far as her in-ring stuff Nia Jax is trash.  She can be carried to something decent when facing the likes of Bayley or Asuka.  But she is a danger to her opponents and not in a good way.  And her injuring Mandy which takes her out of Survivor Series is the most recent example.

Now out of the ring it's been at times frustrating.  She's a really beautiful woman and when watching Total Divas there were glimpses of her actually being a decent person.  But the more that she opened her mouth on Twitter the worse things got.  And after her denying the eventual vaccine I just have had it with her.  Say what you will about your Hogans and the like.  But to deny something and put the people you work with at risk is inexcusable.  And if she refuses when it's being distributed then she should be fired and blacklisted on the spot.

Sorry, I know this might be a "No shit, Sherlock!" post.  But I guess that's part of what the topic is for.

Oh, and fuck Cornette too.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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On 11/12/2020 at 8:22 AM, The Natural said:

Of the names mentioned, the Harris Brothers, Brock Lesnar when he phones it in, Austin Aries, Nia Jax and Enzo are on my most hated list with Hulk Hogan in first place. Fuck you, Hulk Hogan. One more name I'd add, Low Ki. I could never get the appeal of Low Ki unlike Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe and CM Punk straight away, especially Bryan.

*Add Jim Cornette.

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1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

He's racist because he doesn't like today's Japanese women's wrestling, even though he put over AJW and mentioned that in the 80's AJW would not draw in the US?

 

And that the place that had several Japanese women's wrestling...AEW...made a complete dumpster fire of their women's division and nobody gives a shit about their women's division.

 

Oof.

 

 

HoC

You apparently skipped the part where he said having too many Asian women “dilutes the gene pool,” which could not be any more on-the-nose racist without using an actual slur.  

And like all good, intellectually dishonest racists, he dramatically overstates the number of Asian women currently on TV for either company right now, before concluding with an appeal to put more white women on TV.

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2 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

He's racist because he doesn't like today's Japanese women's wrestling, even though he put over AJW and mentioned that in the 80's AJW would not draw in the US?

 

And that the place that had several Japanese women's wrestling...AEW...made a complete dumpster fire of their women's division and nobody gives a shit about their women's division.

AEW's Women's division was going along great until international travel was stopped. If they had still had access to the Joshi talent, it would have been better.

Also, it's really not difficult to add a signature to your profile. You don't need to put one at the bottom of your posts. 

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2 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

And after her denying the eventual vaccine I just have had it with her.  Say what you will about your Hogans and the like.  But to deny something and put the people you work with at risk is inexcusable.  

She won't be the last. 

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30 minutes ago, Andy in Kansas said:

She won't be the last. 

Sadly you're correct.  I can sense who some of the others will likely fall into the camp and for some it'll be painful for me to put fully into the "Fuck ____" camp.  But she's decided to pull this now and was pretty much in that camp anyway so there you go.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

AEW's Women's division was going along great until international travel was stopped. If they had still had access to the Joshi talent, it would have been better.

Also, it's really not difficult to add a signature to your profile. You don't need to put one at the bottom of your posts. 

It was a dumpster fire before the international travel ban.  The Joshi talent they have had is vastly overrated and not ready to work the American style as they have no clue how to setup spots for the camera and botched spots all over the place.  Omega's booking was the drizzling shits, made little sense and hasn't gotten any of them over except for one match when the crowd popped for Riho.  And then the fans turned against Riho because she's the drizzling shits and can't make it believable working against Rose, Statlander, Baker, etc.  

 

Fans have skewered just about every female on the roster at one point.  Shida probably being the main exception.   But if she's forced to job, you can tell by her coming out the ring with all of the fire of a plate full of piss.

 

 

 

HoC

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1 hour ago, EVA said:

You apparently skipped the part where he said having too many Asian women “dilutes the gene pool,” which could not be any more on-the-nose racist without using an actual slur.  

And like all good, intellectually dishonest racists, he dramatically overstates the number of Asian women currently on TV for either company right now, before concluding with an appeal to put more white women on TV.

How is that racist?

 

Asking for diversity is now racist?

 

Again...

 

Oof.

 

 

HoC

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I am struggling to see how having access to fewer talented female wrestlers is good for AEW but if you people would have just shut the thread at Billy Gunn like I said, all this unpleasantness could have been avoided and we wouldn't have had to grapple with the massive sleazy underbelly of the grappling. Again.

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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I literally just said in another thread that old white promoters see non-whiteness as a gimmick.  White is the default for a wrestler and anything else = gimmick.  And here we have Cornette coming right out and saying the problem with Japanese woman wrestlers in American companies is that "there are too many of them."  Because promoter conventional wisdom is that of course you don't want more than one of the same gimmick on your roster. 

I don't worry about a marginalized loser like Cornette because he's just preaching to his choir at this point.  The real concern is that the biggest, most influential company in the world is run by a septuagenarian white man who is absolutely still in that old time mindset.

I think it goes back to Vince sr. and his idea that you need one Italian babyface and one Puerto Rican Baby face of you want to run the garden. and the feeling that if you have one you don't need a second one.

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4 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:

Expressing a desire to see fewer people of a particular ethnicity might not be the call for diversity you think it is.

At its core it has nothing to do with their ethnicity.  It has to do with meeting your market demand.  

If they were drawing like Steve Austin or even Diesel, then stating you don't want Joshi women on the card would be racist...and stupid.

And at this point, more of the westernized women are far greater draws and far better American style workers.

 

 

 

HoC

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, DangerMark said:

I am struggling to see how having access to fewer talented female wrestlers is good for AEW but if you people would have just shut the thread at Billy Gunn like I said, all this unpleasantness could have been avoided and we wouldn't have had to grapple with the massive sleazy underbelly of the grappling. Again.


The division was an abortion before COVID-19 and the Joshi gals are completely overrated.

We're not talking about the next Lyger's or Tajiri's here.  Shida has potential, but she's extremely green and if you throw more inferior Joshi talent into the mix, Shida gets lost in the shuffle and is no longer presented as special.  

Kinda like if you have a promotion with all giants...you have a promotion that doesn't have any giants.




HoC 

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16 minutes ago, Hustler of Culture said:

stating you don't want Joshi women on the card is  racist...and stupid.
 

Fixed that for you.

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18 minutes ago, Hustler of Culture said:

At its core it has nothing to do with their ethnicity.  It has to do with meeting your market demand.  

If they were drawing like Steve Austin or even Diesel, then stating you don't want Joshi women on the card would be racist...and stupid.

And at this point, more of the westernized women are far greater draws and far better American style workers.

 

 

 

HoC

 

 

 

But it is marketing demand. WWE is an international brand, they want stars that appeal to Japanese, Chinese, and South Korean audiences. Even if you are mainly domestic like AEW you still have a lot of asian-americans you want to appeal to(and appeal to their pocket books)

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6 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

How is that racist?

 

Asking for diversity is now racist?

 

Again...

 

Oof.

 

 

HoC

Your dog whistle is getting a little too loud here, you ridiculous nitwit. Maybe take a breath and think before you post again. "Supporting Cornette's obvious trolling" is probably not the most worthwhile hill to die on. Go back to being hilariously wrong about "heels vs faces in Japanese wrestling", or something.

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59 minutes ago, Hustler of Culture said:

Shida has potential, but she's extremely green and if you throw more inferior Joshi talent into the mix, Shida gets lost in the shuffle and is no longer presented as special. 

 

This quoted sentence sounds a bit like @Technico Support's point, except phrased to sound a bit less like some decidedly stone age thinking, as if Shida being Japanese is her Thing.

I'm also struggling with what you mean by "American style," because I've seen enough 90's and 00's Joshi to see the similarities in the current men and women's American styles. There are plenty of counter examples to your sweeping generalisations about Japanese pro-wres in general, including a match I saw last night between Masa Saito and Akira Maeda from 1987 where Super Strong Machine jumped Maeda on his way to the ring and his face was pissing blood. Not much respect going on there.

Or do what @El Gran Gordisaid, 

Edited by DangerMark
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1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

At its core it has nothing to do with their ethnicity.  It has to do with meeting your market demand.  

If they were drawing like Steve Austin or even Diesel, then stating you don't want Joshi women on the card would be racist...and stupid.

And at this point, more of the westernized women are far greater draws and far better American style workers.

Some people think they know a lot about market demand, especially people who currently have or in the past have had decision-making power in show business. Then a Crazy Rich Asians comes along and ends up being the most successful rom-com in a decade and wow, turns out those people's ideas may have been based on dated or outright faulty assumptions. Anyway, if your standard is someone has to draw like a peak '90s star to be modestly represented on televised American wrestling, we should probably just stop putting on wrestling because damn near nobody is pulling their weight. 

As for who's a better worker, a lot of that will come down to taste. My understanding is people speak pretty highly of Asuka, Sane, Shirai, and a lot of other Joshi women who make the jump. But do go off. 

At its core, I get the feeling you're not their market so they probably shouldn't concern themselves with you demand. But thank you for sharing your ideas.

Edited by Andy in Kansas
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5 hours ago, zendragon said:

But it is marketing demand. WWE is an international brand, they want stars that appeal to Japanese, Chinese, and South Korean audiences. Even if you are mainly domestic like AEW you still have a lot of asian-americans you want to appeal to(and appeal to their pocket books)

Nobody ever said you could not have Japenese women on the card.  But thee is overkill like everything else in the business.

If everybody wants to look like and wrestle like Flair, nobody stands out and it gets dull.  If everybody is a giant, then nobody is a giant.  

If they were consistently big draws and somebody didn't want them on the card, then you can point to racism.  That's the part of meritocracy of the business.  

But if you're claiming racism over somebody stating the obvious that you shouldn't push people that don't draw and historically have not drawn well in this market, it's face palm-city.

 

 

HoC

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4 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

Your dog whistle is getting a little too loud here, you ridiculous nitwit. Maybe take a breath and think before you post again. "Supporting Cornette's obvious trolling" is probably not the most worthwhile hill to die on. Go back to being hilariously wrong about "heels vs faces in Japanese wrestling", or something.

I've probably been watching puroresu before you were born and have actually been to the Tokyo Dome and Korakuen Hall.  

They aren't drawing and haven't drawn.  Their style is very different, they don't speak English which causes a disconnect with the fans, they don't understand basic things like how to set up spots to camera, etc.  

If they were drawing big numbers here then Cornette would be wrong.  But they're not and you got panties bunched up over somebody not being into your Japanese schoolgirl jackoff fantasies.

 

 

HoC

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4 hours ago, DangerMark said:

 

This quoted sentence sounds a bit like @Technico Support's point, except phrased to sound a bit less like some decidedly stone age thinking, as if Shida being Japanese is her Thing.

I'm also struggling with what you mean by "American style," because I've seen enough 90's and 00's Joshi to see the similarities in the current men and women's American styles. There are plenty of counter examples to your sweeping generalisations about Japanese pro-wres in general, including a match I saw last night between Masa Saito and Akira Maeda from 1987 where Super Strong Machine jumped Maeda on his way to the ring and his face was pissing blood. Not much respect going on there.

Or do what @El Gran Gordisaid, 

There's more to being a Japanese wrestler than being from Japan.  Their style and psychology is very different from the US style and what US fans generally expect, particularly on cable TV.  It's a different look, different background, different style, different selling, different fire, different heeling, etc.

I'd guess that I've been watching puroresu before you were born.  Nobody ever said there was no heel vs. face psychology whatsoever in Japan.  But if you're not willing to admit that the psychology and style is very different then you're just being willfully ignorant or just not paying attention.   Like saying Arena Football is almost identical to the NFL.

They aren't drawing big numbers or even decent numbers.  Doesn't mean that they can't be used, but it's not wise to book as many as you can and push them to the moon.

 

 

HoC

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4 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:

Some people think they know a lot about market demand, especially people who currently have or in the past have had decision-making power in show business. Then a Crazy Rich Asians comes along and ends up being the most successful rom-com in a decade and wow, turns out those people's ideas may have been based on dated or outright faulty assumptions. Anyway, if your standard is someone has to draw like a peak '90s star to be modestly represented on televised American wrestling, we should probably just stop putting on wrestling because damn near nobody is pulling their weight. 

As for who's a better worker, a lot of that will come down to taste. My understanding is people speak pretty highly of Asuka, Sane, Shirai, and a lot of other Joshi women who make the jump. But do go off. 

At its core, I get the feeling you're not their market so they probably shouldn't concern themselves with you demand. But thank you for sharing your ideas.

CRA is a film versus pro wrestling being a weekly program that has a business model that requires people to pay money to go to watch workers perform.  There's always been the random, one off successes in film that make the film successful.  But when you're trying to operate a successful promotion on a weekly basis it's a different animal.

The Joshi gals aren't drawing well in the US by any standard of time that one can present unless you're drill down to compare it Dennis Corralluzzo running shows at truck stops in Trenton.  If they were drawing well, even by today's standards, then there would be a valid point about Cornette being racist towards Joshi gals.  

I am in the AEW market.  I live 2 hours from their HQ and I'm in the key demo.  I'm the epitome of the person they should concern themselves with appealing to.

 

 

 

HoC

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1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

I've probably been watching puroresu before you were born and have actually been to the Tokyo Dome and Korakuen Hall.  

 

1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

I'd guess that I've been watching puroresu before you were born. 

 

37 minutes ago, Hustler of Culture said:

I am in the AEW market.  I live 2 hours from their HQ and I'm in the key demo.  I'm the epitome of the person they should concern themselves with appealing to.

Oh good, you're a gatekeeper, too. 

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