AEW - OCT 2020

[EVA]

I felt like something was up with Rosa ever since they did that slight tease of Shida staring at the NWA belt after the  blowoff tag against Ivelisse/Diamanté, suggesting a possible rematch for that belt...and then nothing ever happened with it.

[Casey]

Good for Rosa for getting paid, or if it's her dream job, or whatever... but man, she's going to get lost in the shuffle FAST. I know some have defended Mercedes Martinez's NXT run (although I don't know why), but I feel like she can be used as a cautionary tale. I mean, I get it, money matters, especially in a pandemic, and if your dream is WWE, you need to see if you can climb that mountain. But their women's divisions in NXT and the main rosters are deep as fuck, with more waiting in the wings and no end in sight to their signing sprees. If she goes right to the main roster, which I doubt, I don't see Vince wanting to showcase her over a Mandy Rose or someone.

But, c'est la vie.

[Technico Support]

1 minute ago, Casey said:

Good for _____________ for getting paid, or if it's his/her dream job, or whatever... but man, he/she's going to get lost in the shuffle FAST. I know some have defended ___________________________'s NXT run (although I don't know why), but I feel like he/she can be used as a cautionary tale. I mean, I get it, money matters, especially in a pandemic, and if your dream is WWE, you need to see if you can climb that mountain. But their  divisions in NXT and the main rosters are deep as fuck, with more waiting in the wings and no end in sight to their signing sprees. If he/she goes right to the main roster, which I doubt, I don't see Vince wanting to showcase him/her over a _________________ or someone.

But, c'est la vie.

WWE Madlibs.  Just bookmark this and reuse it for every signee.

[EVA]

I’m with you 100% on that.  I support her choices, but as a fan of hers, this sucks.

 

[Casey]

Someone on Reddit brought up a good point, that I'm somewhat conflicted on: AEW giving all this shine to indie talent is great for them and the talent and the fans, but it's also great for said talent in other ways, as evident with people like Mercedes, Rosa, Ben Carter, etc. Anyone that comes away with even a hint of online buzz or whatever immediately gets a large contract offer. The only one that's turned it down so far was Eddie Kingston (assuming Rosa is actually WWE bound).

Is it time to actually start signing people before they're showcased, or is the goodwill it creates worth it?

It's an interesting discussion, at least.

(But another thing that's (possibly) come to light is that AEW doesn't match or go above WWE's offers, so they're essentially offering them X amount of dollars, WWE is tripling it or whatever (speculation), and AEW doesn't budge. Just the idea of being with something new and fresh, and a contract where you can still work indies and do your hustle but it's all on the side and you keep it all.)

[Craig H]

They'll immediately team her with Shotzi because they're both SO WEIRD AND WACKY!

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

(But another thing that's (possibly) come to light is that AEW doesn't match or go above WWE's offers, so they're essentially offering them X amount of dollars, WWE is tripling it or whatever (speculation), and AEW doesn't budge. Just the idea of being with something new and fresh, and a contract where you can still work indies and do your hustle but it's all on the side and you keep it all.)

That is very interesting. I actually kind of hope it's true. I remember reading that a decision had been made that AEW were not going to hand out any more mega contracts, and I remember thinking, "That's good." 

I'm pretty sure that AEW is a fun place to work, a place where the "workers" are respected and allowed creative input and people mostly get along and are cool to each other. Pro wrestlers who sign with AEW don't have to put up with some of the absolutely harrowing bullshit that is ingrained in  the WWE culture, They don't have to put up with the crazy travel schedule (presumably, after Covid...) They have much more freedom and independence. 

I'm sure that (for a lot of people but definitely not for everyone) working for WWE is physically, emotionally, mentally, and most of all spiritually draining. 

WWE should pay more. A lot more. It's a hard job with lousy hours, crippling expenses, and (for some) horrific working conditions. 

WWE have insane amounts of money, it would be suicidally stupid to get into a series of bidding wars with them (even of you also have insane amounts of money). 

AEW's men's divisions are all stacked. They have a ton of good cruiserweights, heavyweights, and tag teams. They have been able to build up a bunch of under-the-radar guys into people that fans like us can't wait to see. 

I'd like to see every good young wrestler in the world sign with AEW and get that treatment, but there really isn't enough room on the card to fit everyone if that happens. 

The women's division is not stacked, but I'd guess the plan is to wait until more Joshi wrestlers can safely make the trip over. I'd argue that they might be just as well off finding and developing young talent rather than trying to scrape up any available big-name or big-reputation female worker. 

Let the people who'd prefer to go to WWE for a bigger payday go. If they make it there. good for them! If they get used badly, lied to, cut, buried or whatever... be there waiting with that same "less money but much better working conditions" offer you made before. 

i'd argue that AEW, for now, is better off in a lovable underdog role. 

I'd argue that there are not a whole lot of wrestlers out there who will "move the needle" more than the people they can develop themselves. 

I'll bet that in five years we'll see more great and very very good pro wrestlers making the jump from WWE to AEW than the other way around. A lot more.

AEW's doing great. There should be no sense of rush w/r/t them taking the next step(s). 

Let "...the idea of being with something new and fresh, and a contract where you can still work indies and do your hustle but it's all on the side and you keep it all" be the carrot. Develop the wrestlers that believe in you and that you believe in. You'll end up with a roster stacked with great wrestlers who love pro wrestling. 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by El Gran Gordi

[The Natural]

 

[The Natural]

 

[Jiji]

I get wanting to have a contract structure but the women's division is pretty much so bad that it is time to think about abandoning it if they don't get some actual wrestling talent. Signing good wrestlers to carry that division is a must. Deeb is fine but she's more a solid supporting vet than an ace. All the signs point to Rosa going to WWE for reasons already mentioned and it frustrates me that TK won't offer her more than NXT has (unless it's not a money thing then fair enough. I could see her wanting to work with the far more talented group of women after she had some struggles even with Shida). They should have a list of names they will break the bank for and near the top should be very good to great women wrestlers like Rosa because that is the company's biggest need. I fast forward through or place my attention elsewhere during most of their women's matches because they are generally green wrestlers that should be honing their craft on the indies. I saw a minute or so of Anna Jay's squash on Dark and man... This has been a talking point for too long and they have done little to rectify it. I'm losing what little hope I had for the division. 

[nofuture]

It's a bit of a chicken/egg situation with AEW's women's division.  They don't that have that deep enough pool of talent so they can't really invest much into it.  In turn, they can't really attract any good talent because there are better options elsewhere.  You can't fault Thunder Rosa at her age to pick to go somewhere with a well established and deep roster of talent that will probably pay pretty well too.

[colonial]

Thunder Rosa is 34 and (I believe) has a son who is middle or high school age. As a parent, I can't blame her for taking a WWE offer if it's worth more than AEW -- you have a downside guarantee and can bank some of that money into a college fund for your child, as well as save additional cash down the line to improve your day-to-day (I recall her holding a flash merchandise sale to pay for car repairs not too long ago). She would be sacrificing time at home (and would presumably give up rights to the TR gimmick and take down her merchandise sites), but it may be worth it in the end for she and her family.

One thing I do wonder is if she still wants to dabble in MMA fighting. AEW seems OK with it in regards to Jake Hager, but the WWE may put the kibosh on that.

 

[Godfrey]

It shouldn't be entirely on the talent to bolster the women's division, especially if they aren't that experienced. AEW has so many resources they could be using to make the division viable and they just aren't, they give us nothing to get invested in week to week and what few angles they have suffer from a total lack of consistency and often a payoff. They want us to care without giving us a reason to beyond their gender and that's almost more offensive than having nothing.

[EVA]

Yeah, I’ve certainly tried to be patient with the young female wrestlers and understanding that a lot of AEW’s plans for the division have gone sideways for reasons beyond their control, but  if Khan is really serious about this division, then there comes a time when you have to put your money where your mouth is and invest in it.  Thunder Rosa seemed like a must-get to me, but this isn’t even an isolated incident.  They whiffed on Deonna Purrazzo recently, too, and she’s been terrific on Impact.  Those two would’ve gone a long way toward making this a functional division, as opposed to an ongoing experiment in determining if Moneyball works in wrestling.

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

I get wanting to have a contract structure but the women's division is pretty much so bad that it is time to think about abandoning it if they don't get some actual wrestling talent. Signing good wrestlers to carry that division is a must. Deeb is fine but she's more a solid supporting vet than an ace. All the signs point to Rosa going to WWE for reasons already mentioned and it frustrates me that TK won't offer her more than NXT has (unless it's not a money thing then fair enough. I could see her wanting to work with the far more talented group of women after she had some struggles even with Shida). They should have a list of names they will break the bank for and near the top should be very good to great women wrestlers like Rosa because that is the company's biggest need. I fast forward through or place my attention elsewhere during most of their women's matches because they are generally green wrestlers that should be honing their craft on the indies. I saw a minute or so of Anna Jay's squash on Dark and man... This has been a talking point for too long and they have done little to rectify it. I'm losing what little hope I had for the division. 

I'm with you with regards to maybe putting the division on hold, but then you'll get a bunch of people bitching and moaning about it. More than any big signing like Archer or Miro or Cage, I wanted TK to back up the Brinks truck to any good to great women's wrestler. Like you said, break the bank of those women.

The weird thing is that anyone that is a good to great women's wrestler with any amount of personality is going to immediately stand out more in AEW than they would in WWE or NXT. However, you have women going to Impact, which has about no viewership and there's no way Impact can beat AEW in terms of money. Part of me wonders who is in charge of talent relations for the women's division. Is Christopher Daniels in charge of all talent? I know Kenny was handling the booking of the women's division, but I don't even know if he's doing that now and if he's in charge of any hiring of women. In any case, I think they almost need to bring in someone specific to handle the women's division that has something of a large budget to work with. AEW has the money, sort of, they have the ability to give women exposure, so just fucking do it already.

At some point you have to stop missing on Rosa, Purrazzo, or any women in WWE who have a contract about to run out and stop settling for complete unknowns. The moneyball comparison is incredibly apt.

[Technico Support]

12 minutes ago, EVA said:

if Khan is really serious about this division, then there comes a time when you have to put your money where your mouth is and invest in it.

Exactly.  One angle or match per week, if that, is all we're getting out of this division.  It's ridiculous.  I'm only counting Dynamite, which, as their flagship, is fair.  You can't say "this is a serious women's division" and, outside of not doing bra and panties matches, treat it as flippantly as WWE treated their women's divisions of the past.  I mean look at this shit:

• Nyla Rose signed Vicki Guerrero as a manager, then the two of them sat in the crowd for what feels like months
• Abadon had a hot Dynamite debut and then was never heard from again until she was set for a match this week. 
• Diamante and Valez won that women's tournament, were booked on Dynamite for I think the ensuing two weeks, and now are doing nothing.

I felt like they leaned too heavily on Japanese workers from the start, and should have been signing and/or developing US talent the whole time.  Once travel restrictions were in place, they seriously needed to start coming up with a new plan for the division.  It was on shaky ground to begin with.  Do you mean to tell me Riho, Yuka Sakazawa, and Freddie Mercury Cosplay Lady were that scary talented that the whole division collapsed around them?  This is a company that made do during the worst of a nationwide lockdown, yet they can't pivot to a decent women's division after losing a few people?  No, this speaks to priorities more then anything.  Everything else just feels like an excuse at this point. 

[nofuture]

Poor Shida hasn't really gotten a proper story-line or any character development.  AEW has spent so much more time doing that with Britt who has been on the shelf for months now.

[NikoBaltimore]

24 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Everything else just feels like an excuse at this point. 

As much as I want to go all "Yeah, but..." when attempting to do so it just feels like an excuse.  That's one big issue that they need to correct.  And if they don't sign Rosa which seems to be the case then that's a huge "One that got away" situation that will take time to recover from.  I get not backing up the Brinks truck for signings but they needed her much more than WWE does.

As far as the future I know Cody either is close to or opened up whatever school he was talking about.  So I'm hoping that helps the inexperienced women develop things better.  But I do see promise in a lot of them even if it's not up to par as of yet.  As for booking on Dynamie that really needs to be thought out better.  While a second show is on the horizon you can't wait for that or rely solely on Dark to showcase the division.  Last I heard Brandi was in charge of the division and if that's still the case then somehow a change would need to happen though good luck with that.

[Technico Support]

57 minutes ago, nofuture said:

Poor Shida hasn't really gotten a proper story-line or any character development.  AEW has spent so much more time doing that with Britt who has been on the shelf for months now.

It feels like WCW's cruiserweight division at this point, from a standpoint of just having a perfunctory match here and there with not much in the way of character development or advancement.

I feel a bit like the TNT title plays a part in the women's division being minimized, as well.  We know the TNT title that we ended up with wasn't the original plan for the 4th title in the company.  All earlier talks late last year and early this year regarding a 4th title mentioned that they'd be doing something unique and different with whatever the title was going to be, and that it wouldn't be happening too soon.  Then Covid hit and locked them down for a month with limited staff, so they rushed this secondary men's title just to have something compelling to fill TV time in a creative way.  So now we have a company with four titles and two hours of TV per week, so something is going to get sacrificed.  Without a 4th title, they would have been forced to be creative and shore up the women's division instead.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by Technico Support

[Big Z]

I will argue that a big time women's division is not a huge need for AEW, especially with the depth of men's talent on the roster. Yes, you may lose a little bit of good PR as the progressive American wrestling company, but outside of getting a Sasha/Becky/Bayley/Charlotte level women's wrestler, AEW's progress will be based on a men's wrestler getting super hot (to make the jump from Strong #2 company in North America to challenging for #1). The women's division is the one thing that WWE has objectively handled fairly well over the last few years, but that clearly has not stemmed the tide in their overall decrease in popularity. Also, good women's wrestling was the one thing that TNA did consistently well, and again it did not seriously move the needle. Even when AEW gets the third hour of television, there is still of plenty of men's talent on the roster not regularly featured on Dynamite that could benefit from the increased exposure compared to Dark (for example, Santana and Ortiz have not been featured on Dynamite since their awesome street fight against Best Friends that boosted their popularity). AEW having a perfunctory women's division (cannot drop it all together) is probably the best thing for now until they can actually get one of the aforementioned big names to switch over (best chance for that is likely Charlotte, especially with WWE's treatment of her husband Andrade).

Also, AEW in general probably can hold off on any big hires for now, with the potential exception for Rush and Dragon Lee. Plenty of depth of the men's roster across the board, but I do think that Rush and Dragon Lee are talented enough to make a difference with that. 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Big Z

[Jiji]

I need to see Dragon Lee vs. Fenix. I know they had at least one match against each other in Mexico in a tag with their brothers but man... Those two fuckers are crazy and so athletic. 

[Phantom Lord]

I really hope Thunder Rosa isn't signing with the WWE. She has so much to lose if she does. This year with all the covid stuff was an anamoly. Had it not happened, she would have been making huge money on the indy's this past summer. I just don't trust the WWE to use her to even a quarter of her potential. Say she signs. She's in NXT for like a year or so. Gets called up after Wrestlemania 38 and she becomes the next in a long line of "hey look at how the main roster squandered so and so from NXT". 

Plus she just opened a small company of her own in San Antonio. So I can't see her giving that up so quickly. Also, isn't the WWE not giving out big money deals anymore especially to people who would go to NXT?

[zendragon]

I don't doubt that people like Thunder Rosa or Mercedes Martinez who have been in the game for a bit see a WWE contract as a chance to cash out. Even if they don't get used it brings to mind CM Punks comment about "paying cash for his house like Shannon Moore did"

[Jiji]

I haven't been paying attention. Are NXT wrestlers getting paid like those on the main roster, old NXT jabronies, or somewhere in-between?

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:36 AM, Jiji said:

and man... This has been a talking point for too long and they have done little to rectify it. I'm losing what little hope I had for the division. 

 

On 10/29/2020 at 1:42 AM, EVA said:

Yeah, I’ve certainly tried to be patient with the young female wrestlers and understanding that a lot of AEW’s plans for the division have gone sideways for reasons beyond their control...

Come on lads, the show has been on the air for barely over a year. It's maybe a teeny weenie bit early to be all "This has gone on long enough!"

That being said, it really is too bad that they lost out on Rosa and Purrazzo. They definitely would have helped. THAT being said...

On 10/29/2020 at 2:05 AM, Technico Support said:

Do you mean to tell me Riho, Yuka Sakazawa, and Freddie Mercury Cosplay Lady were that scary talented that the whole division collapsed around them? 

Frankly, if Riho, Sakazaki, and Emi Sakura were still around, and AEW were able to bring in, say a Lulu Pencil and a Miyu Yamashita or some other interesting joshi worker I think that would make as much difference to the women's division as adding Purazzo and/or Rosa would. 

I don't feel that bringing in Charlotte Flair would be the right move at all. She's a much better fit where she is now.

I don't think you break the bank for anyone short of, say, Kana. Even then, hopefully she'd understand that a smaller guaranteed income would be balanced out by having control of her outside projects, merch, and being able to work in Japan.

I also think @Godfrey has a good point in that adding talent won't make a difference if it doesn't lead to better booking, storytelling, and character development within the women's division. They've shown what they can do with Britt Baker. They've absolutely excelled at getting dudes like Orange, Sammy, Page, Jungle Boy, Wardlow, Darby, and Starks (etc etc) over. 

It's time for them to start figuring out how to get some more of the women on their roster over, for sure. I think it's a little early to give up.

Edited October 30, 2020 by El Gran Gordi