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OCTOBER 2020 WRESTLING TALK


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2 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

You want self-righteous? How about this: Why, oh why, does anyone still bother watching WWE? 

Because I enjoy it and in the past, have liked coming here to talk about it. But I don't want or need the self-important, holier than thou attitude that comes from doing that around here. Being called dumb, a sheep, and sometimes worse.

If you or others find no pleasure in it, that's fine. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I wish the same courtesy was extended in reverse.

Edited by Burgundy LaRue
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1 minute ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Because I enjoy it and in the past, have liked coming here to talk about it. But I don't want or need the self-important, holier than thou attitude that comes from doing that around here. Being called dump, a sheep, and sometimes worse.

If you or others find no pleasure in it, that's fine. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I wish the same courtesy was extended in reverse.

I don't think anybody should be given shit for watching WWE, but that's a whole separate thought from "WWE is objectively a bad company." So are most corporations. It's virtually impossible to live in this world and not somehow support some shady shit, which is an absolute bummer. 

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2 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

I don't think anybody should be given shit for watching WWE, but that's a whole separate thought from "WWE is objectively a bad company." So are most corporations. It's virtually impossible to live in this world and not somehow support some shady shit, which is an absolute bummer. 

I had the roh service for the first year and I felt really, really crappy about giving Sinclair my money. I know what the mcmahons are doing but I just felt especially bad there. Justified it to myself that I’m paying and supporting the wrestlers. But I’m glad I’m not interested in giving them my money at this time. 

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What I do with WWE (and I advise this to everyone else: turn it on, put the TV on mute, start listening to music or reading something, look up when something interesting seems to be happening, ignore the rest. That's not hate-watching, or hope-watching. That's happenstance-watching.

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4 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

How many people here have stopped watching WWE altogether? Stopped subscribing to the network? I'm curious.

I wouldnt say that I stopped. I mean, if I literally have nothing to do, I will flip USA and put my earbuds in or play guitar. I've been watching for so long (31 years) its habit to just tune in. Like I said, if there's nothing on.

Network wise, I just steal shit from@Nice Guy Eddie.

Having said that, I've been totally unaware of any storyline for YEARS, unless I read about it on here or Reddit.

While I do tune into AEW, I pop in earbuds to relax, I still have no clue whats going on. But I do enjoy it more.

I really don't care about current wrestling a whole lot nowadays.

Edited by PetrolCB
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Been watching AEW, NXT, Impact, Lucha Underground. Haven't watched Raw or Smackdown in forever. Never had the network (barlely have time to watch Netflix which is the only streaming service I pay for). I will watch WWE matches on Youtube if the participants are somewho I like. I also have some New Japan and WOW dvrd that I need to get through

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5 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

How many people here have stopped watching WWE altogether? Stopped subscribing to the network? I'm curious.

Deleting Facebook has done me wonders mentally, and I'm sure not watching WWE anymore has helped as well. That sounds self-righteous, I know. It is true, though. 

I gave up watching WWE altogether. I still have the network, but that's mostly so @PetrolCB can use it. Us Seinfeld fans gotta stick together after all. I also feel giving up on WWE has done me wonders mentally. These days I mainly watch AEW and New Japan.

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I haven't stopped watching WWE altogether, but then I never really intensely watched it to begin with. I've never really been a true fan of the company, outside of the Smackdown Six era. I've always been a Wrestling fan, rather than a WWE fan.

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5 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

How many people here have stopped watching WWE altogether? Stopped subscribing to the network? I'm curious.

Deleting Facebook has done me wonders mentally, and I'm sure not watching WWE anymore has helped as well. That sounds self-righteous, I know. It is true, though. 

Outside of reading the reviews here and in the Observer, as well as the occasional highlight on YT, I have no interest in WWE. It's been the same old, same old for far too long -- main-event scene loaded with aging part-timers, generally bad storylines, a glut of wrestlers on both brands with nothing to do, titles that are meaningless, etc. I cringe every time the WWE opts to remove a wrestler's first name from their intros or go to the "soap opera name generator" to re-christen a wrestler. Honestly, the only real successes at the moment could be Roman and the Hurt Business, and that's probably because their work is being scripted "outside the bubble" so to say.

I've watched AEW pretty much from the beginning? Is it perfect? Of course not, there is no "perfect" wrestling promotion. It's made its fair share of mistakes. But AEW has given wrestling a shot in the arm. The in-ring product is different (it's not "generic WWE" -- you get a little bit of everything on each show). Wrestlers, announcers, referees, etc., seem motivated and enthused about being there and giving a flip. The former WWE personalities there have rejuvenated (Moxley) or re-invented (Jericho) themselves. They are willing to take risks, whether it be Elite-Inner Circle in the football stadium, Jericho and MJF singing showtunes, etc. They are giving opportunities to wrestlers who were either castoffs or potential "NXT lifers" and they, for the most part, are delivering.

During my lunch break, I watched the third Avalon-Cutler match. This was great, and I was into the match from start to finish. Both gave it their all and put on a heck of a match. And that's the thing -- I always got a kick watching 80s/early 90s WWF house shows and seeing two perennial jobbers having a match (I was all in for Iron Mike Sharpe vs. SD Jones). That was their reward for making the main eventers look good -- a chance to have their own showcase matches. And Avalon-Cutler was Iron Mike-SD multiplied by 50.

AEW made you care about Cutler, Avalon and Leva Bates, even though none of them could win a match. And as time wore on, the fans were hoping at least one could win and were excited to see them try and break their losing streaks. Imagine that -- a group of enhancement talents arguably had one of the best feuds of the year, and it's because AEW wants you to care about every single wrestler and personality on its roster, and those three wrestlers want you to care about them by putting on the best matches they can. We haven't seen that in the WWE in more than 20 years.

Same thing goes with Impact and NWA. Every wrestler and personality on their rosters get opportunities to shine and try to win interest of the fans. And both companies are willing to take risks to help their talent get the shine (Wrestle House is a good example). That wouldn't happen in today's WWE.

Thanks to good scouting and hard work, AEW, Impact and NWA have found "diamonds in the rough" that have won over many. We praise and get excited watching the likes of Ricky Starks, Jordynne Grace, Orange Cassidy, Best Friends and Thunder Rosa. All three promotions can do a match or storyline with an "old fogey" and pull it off without looking stupid (Rock n Roll Express, Tully Blanchard, Mike Jackson). There's a lot of originality, and that's something I enjoy seeing. With WWE, just reading the results gives me a headache -- Orton is the headliner AGAIN? Nia Jax has sent Lana through a table every week for six weeks? Enough already!

 

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48 minutes ago, colonial said:

 During my lunch break, I watched the third Avalon-Cutler match. This was great, and I was into the match from start to finish. Both gave it their all and put on a heck of a match. And that's the thing -- I always got a kick watching 80s/early 90s WWF house shows and seeing two perennial jobbers having a match (I was all in for Iron Mike Sharpe vs. SD Jones). That was their reward for making the main eventers look good -- a chance to have their own showcase matches. And Avalon-Cutler was Iron Mike-SD multiplied by 50.

like many others, i'm a fan of the WCW C-shows. i've been watching some from '95 recently. Obviously 95% of the matches are gimmes, but, once in a great while, they put on one of the "Sharpe vs Jones" matches.... and i'm transfixed. holy shit. who's going to win between Bobby Starr and Eddie Jackie? I HAVE NO IDEA! i have GOT to see this one. i like to think there's some kind of "jobber hierarchy" and these guys are fighting to move up their own rankings. 

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3 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Because I enjoy it and in the past, have liked coming here to talk about it. But I don't want or need the self-important, holier than thou attitude that comes from doing that around here. Being called dumb, a sheep, and sometimes worse.

If you or others find no pleasure in it, that's fine. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I wish the same courtesy was extended in reverse.

"Coming here (or to, say, SmarksChoice or PWO) to talk about it" is definitely a big part of the appeal of pro wrestling for me.

I guess that's what leads to "hope watching" (and thanks to @Zakk_Sabbathfor that term and idea, it's a good one)

And I guess when one's hopes are dashed often enough it leads down the dark road to hate watching... and why (oh why) would anyone do that to themselves? Well, partly so we can still enjoy coming here to talk about it. Sadly for me (and I assume for others in this very thread) WWE often hits a point where the unhappiness I get from watching their show wildly overrides the pleasure I get from engaging in the discussion, and the only way for me to engage would be to spew vitriol and bile in the WWE threads. 

I tend to just drop out of the discussion instead.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me that's a big part of why I love AEW so much right now and why I'm disinclined to nitpick their flaws too much: They've given me a way to get back into the discussion. I'm truly happy about that.

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Too bad hardly anyone here gives that space to anyone who wants to discuss anything that's not in vogue with the majority. That's the point of my original post. Give others the space you want for yourselves. Or what's the point of any message board?

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People want to talk about what interests them, and if someone else is also interested in the same thing, they'll respond. Whereas if you read a post about something hat doesn't impinge upon you in any way, obviously you have nothing to say about it. If I tell everyone to watch this week's NXT UK because Walter vs Ilja Dragunov was a really great match (nb: it was), almost nobody will, because NXT UK is usually boring and irrelevant. Equally, if I say Omega vs Penta from Dynamite was really good, anyone who dislikes AEW isn't going to seek that one out. How long was I putting Lee Moriarty over on here before anyone (who didn't previously know of him) watched one of his matches? It was quite a while.

A lot of people on the board have given up on WWE. But I don't think there's one person on the board who's NEVER watched WWE. If the current Roman Reigns angle stays strong, that might start to bring people back. But there's SO MUCH weekly WWE content out there, and so much of it is just... not what the people want right now. I'd rather watch a top to bottom good show, than a mostly terrible show that has one really good bit. 

Anyway, for anyone who doesn't watch Being the Elite, here's all the best bits of it from the last few months:

 

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It's weird, but even when AEW does something I dislike, for example the musical number, it doesn't feel like I'm being insulted so much as it's just a simple swing and a miss. 8 or 9 out of 10 segments still speak to my overall sensibilities; I don't even know who WWE TV is for anymore. 

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52 minutes ago, AxB said:

People want to talk about what interests them, and if someone else is also interested in the same thing, they'll respond.

The RAW weekly threads would often be taken over by those hate-watching or complaining about a clip they saw on YouTube. So no, someone being interested or liking the same thing has little to do with it.

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6 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

It's weird, but even when AEW does something I dislike, for example the musical number, it doesn't feel like I'm being insulted so much as it's just a simple swing and a miss. 8 or 9 out of 10 segments still speak to my overall sensibilities; I don't even know who WWE TV is for anymore. 

WWE TV is for Vince, and nobody else.

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As I list below, I probably watch WAY too much wrestling every week. But I'm sort of OCD about things in general. If I start watching something, it's tough for me mentally just to flip that switch and stop. 

WWE: Raw, Smackdown, NXT, NXT-UK, 205 Live

AEW: Dynamite & Dark

Impact

ROH

I also watched MLW's weekly hour when it was on Youtube, NWA Powerrr, Lucha Underground, NJPW when it was on AXS, along with GLOW. And I binge stuff on the Network generally when I'm bored at work(right now working on all the Prime Time Wrestlings)

Now, I don't watch everything live. DVR is my way of choice. And a lot of times, it's background noise while I'm working on other stuff. I don't "hate" any of the products I watch but there's definitely stuff I enjoy over others.

 

 

 

Edited by Peck
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I went from watching lots of wrestling to watching no modern wrestling at all. I haven't watched a live wrestling show since NWA Power's last show before the pandemic shut it down. 

The only time I've seen anything recent since then is when I've been assigned it as a watch in one of those threads where we share matches. 

Beyond the stuff where I am slightly pickier about where I spend my money for luxury goods and entertainment for personal reasons, I just don't think that modern pro wrestling does it for me stylistically, at least over a two-hour show where the variety usually isn't enough in-ring and everything feels too long.

I prefer watching something and then trying to figure it out now; I prefer to see stuff completely out of my comfort zone or knowledge bracket even if I hate it as long as I have someone to discuss it with. The @Matt D threads were excellent for that. I've been busy with work and other things, so I haven't followed up on as much of it as I might have if we'd done it at a time where I could fall down a rabbit hole, but I think that's what I enjoy.

The last time that a company's work + storylines got me to buy into the illusion has to be mid-'00s NXT, and I wonder if that'll be the last time that wrestling conjures up that magic for me. 

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I only watch AEW out of the stuff that's on cable TV, and then sometimes I'll throw on some All Japan Women from the late 80s/early 90s or All Japan from the early to mid 90s. I have a YouTube playlist of women's matches I want to watch eventually - don't know why I didn't do that when I had a month off from work, but I chose to play a bunch of video games instead - that has people like Billie Starkz, Allie Kat, Kris Statlander, Killer Kelly, Lindsay Snow, Leyla Hirsch, Heidi Howitzer, Ivelisse, etc. And a few odd matches tossed in that have nothing to do with women's wrestling - a Desert Deathmatch between Sabu and Cactus Jack from an NWA show in 1994, Kobashi/Vader, Kobashi/Joe, Liger/Danielson, Punk/Raven, etc.

I'm really quite happy since I cut WWE out of my weekly viewing habits. But, I will say this - I do go out of my way to scour the internet for a way to see some of their women's division matches. Like Io vs Candice from Wednesday, I'll be trying to find that pretty soon (and Ripley vs whoever it was, because I fuckin' LOVE Rhea Ripley).

I can't give money to WWE anymore. They pissed away their goodwill YEARS ago, and they have predatory business practices towards their talent and the industry at large. Not to mention being in bed with Saudi Arabia. I'll admit to falling for the progressive façade the House of Saud were putting on a few years ago, but then they killed a US citizen and WWE didn't even fucking flinch.

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15 hours ago, Shartnado said:

Young Stallions on a Cinderella run two years in a row? Or did you mean Survivor Series tag team elimination match having such a thing two years in a row? Bees and Stallions in '87 and Conquistadors in '88?

Sorry I worded that completely fucked up.   I meant both years had Cinderella runs in them.  

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