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OCTOBER 2020 WRESTLING TALK


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14 minutes ago, Phantom Lord said:

Doesn't that sum up WCW in a nutshell? They had the talent to do this...but didn't.

Aside from Sting/Nikita in the chain match, was there really any other match on that card that couldn't of been scrapped in favor of a tournament?

I mean Robert Gibson vs. Richard Morton would have been a hell of a semi final.

I'd put Sting and Nikita in the tournament as well.  The chain match we got was hot garbage.  It was the kind where the heel is dragging the face to the four corners while the face secretly tags the buckles behind him, then jumps ahead for the last buckle to get a bullshit win.  Because everybody loves when a hateful revenge match is paid off with a babyface sneaking to victory on a technicality.

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The Twitter account, "WCW Deep Cuts" (Which is my current favorite Wrestling Twitter) just posted some clips of the Steiners v Fire and Ice. Which is just big boys throwing around each other and it's great.

Question:

Was ICE Train big anywhere outside of WCW? Japan? Anything? Did fire and ice hold the Tag titles? (I'll google)

 

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3 minutes ago, Valcourt said:

The Twitter account, "WCW Deep Cuts" (Which is my current favorite Wrestling Twitter) just posted some clips of the Steiners v Fire and Ice. Which is just big boys throwing around each other and it's great.

Question:

Was ICE Train big anywhere outside of WCW? Japan? Anything? Did fire and ice hold the Tag titles? (I'll google)

 

He had a run in Germany. We covered a Finlay vs (choo choo) Ice Train match (video included) a few weeks ago.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2020/10/new-finlay-friday-finlay-cannonball.html?m=1

It also has a really good PN News vs Finlay match. Check it out.

 

Edited by Matt D
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2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Really good writeup and great points about the shear number of limitations Luger and Windham were facing, which I've never really thought about.  I feel like another factor that made the match so blah at the time was that Windham was nowhere near world title contention.  He'd been a tag team guy teaming with Arn Anderson and also working on the heel side in Wargames matches in the leadup, teaming with Kevin Sullivan's geeks to make matters worse.  He was such a nothing in the grand scheme of things that he was scheduled for a intergender sideshow of a match for the original card where the draw was Missy vs Paul E and the male workers were afterthoughts.  In kayfabe terms, they were plugging an unranked lower midcarder into a world title match for no reason at all.

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10 hours ago, sabremike said:

Was thinking about this for some reason: What is the worst show you have ever had the misfortune of attending?

It was an ECCW show here in Kelowna. They usually brought a really small crew here anyways (Like 10-12 wrestlers) but they brought in even smaller one this time. I believe this is the show where the main even was supposed to be a Chicken Coop match -basically, the ceiling was too low to fit a cage so this was supposed to be a mini-cage surrounded by chicken wire- it doesn't really matter because the match was scrapped anyways. Also on the show the night before, someone got hurt, so they were short a wrestler. So two of the matches were clearly guys who had wrestled earlier wrestling again in masks without bothering to change their tights. One of the big attractions back then was a 400 lb wrestler named Juggernaut who bled a lot and did a few moves that a man his size shouldn't (top rope stuff) so he was always super over with the crowd. So the main event was a 9 person battle royale (Because I think that was as many wrestlers as they had that night) and the wrestlers were clearly not interested in it. At one point, Juggernaut stood in the corner chatting with another wrestler, actually leaning on the top rope as they conversed. Another wrestler came up from behind and gave him a double axe-handle and he turned around and told him to leave him alone. Eventually, he just climbed over the ropes, eliminating himself. 

Also, someone forgot the music so every single wrestler came out to 'Rock and Roll All Night'. Like, the music would start and a wrestler would come to the ring. Then the music would start, and the exact same song would start up to introduce the his opponent.

ECCW didn't run any shows in Kelowna for a looooooong time after that one.

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11 hours ago, sabremike said:

Was thinking about this for some reason: What is the worst show you have ever had the misfortune of attending?

 

12/17/04, Fusion Wrestling, Elizabeth NJ.

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I once attended a Brian Dixon show where not only Drew McDonald but also Saraya Knight were booked. I mean, some people like 20 minute matches that feature 16 minute chinlocks, fair enough, but two in one night?

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I was pretty stoked about it at the time, but in retrospect the house show I went to headlined by Big Boss Man vs Nailz in a steel cage was not very good at all.

24 minutes ago, Raziel said:

12/17/04, Fusion Wrestling, Elizabeth NJ.

I looked up the show and that is certainly a group of wrestlers on a card.  How fucked up were Jannety and Hall?  Was the main event good, at least?

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5 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

I mean Robert Gibson vs. Richard Morton would have been a hell of a semi final.

Speaking of Richard Morton, is there anyone that put less effort into making a gimmick work?  I mean, Ricky refused to cut his hair, would't wear a suit for promos or to the ring, wore the same ring attire he had been wearing: those awful jean chaps or old R&R tights - neither of which fit the gimmick.  I've never been sure if Ricky didn't want to turn heel and tanked the gimmick or creative was just that bad or Ricky somehow thought he was giving his all to the act.  Anyone know?  

I say this as someone who thinks the R&R are at least a top 5 tag team of all time - maybe top 1, and also thinks Morton is one of the greatest tag team wrestlers ever.  Morton was a great pure babyface.  He should never have turned heel anywhere.   

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4 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I was pretty stoked about it at the time, but in retrospect the house show I went to headlined by Big Boss Man vs Nailz in a steel cage was not very good at all.

I looked up the show and that is certainly a group of wrestlers on a card.  How fucked up were Jannety and Hall?  Was the main event good, at least?

Main was OK, Ultimo gave zero fucks and was in full paycheck mode.  

As for Hall, well, there was a Bar in the building...

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4 hours ago, Raziel said:

12/17/04, Fusion Wrestling, Elizabeth NJ.

 

4 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I looked up the show and that is certainly a group of wrestlers on a card.  How fucked up were Jannety and Hall?  Was the main event good, at least?

Main was alright.  Nothing special given who was involved.  Misawa and Yosh. Ogawa were supposed to be in the main but pulled out.  Would have been more interested in that.

The Jannetty-Hall match was bad.  3 or four min long, Hall was blown up well before the end.  Jannetty looked ok, Hall did not but he was rumored to be drunk.  There's a weird spot with a fan where Hall tells him to f*** off or something along those lines then murders Marty with a clothesline after Marty went over and raised the fan's hand.  Marty does a flip bump and looked hurt.  Not sure that was a planned spot.

Show has a good Jay Lethal/Ryan Drago match that was probably motn.

I really wish I had never seen the Chris Hamrick-New Jack match.  Garbage wrestling at its... whatever.  Some gross spots (New Jack jammed a staple gun into Hamrick's crotch) and unprotected chair shots.

Tommy Dreamer in a suit is something.

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18 hours ago, sabremike said:

Was thinking about this for some reason: What is the worst show you have ever had the misfortune of attending?

I saw Jinder Mahal three times during his indy run between WWE stints, so I'd say it's a three-way tie between all of those shows.

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41 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

I saw Jinder Mahal three times during his indy run between WWE stints, so I'd say it's a three-way tie between all of those shows.

DON'T HINDER JINDER!!!!!!

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Ah, another day, another COVID outbreak at the Performance Center. Anyone that was there on Friday was told to quarantine for two weeks and Halloween Havoc is going to have to be re-written because of this. Nobody that’s a regular on NXT TV tested positive, though.

Presumably Bronson Reed’s latest tweet is about this situation.

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13 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Really good writeup and great points about the shear number of limitations Luger and Windham were facing, which I've never really thought about.  I feel like another factor that made the match so blah at the time was that Windham was nowhere near world title contention.  He'd been a tag team guy teaming with Arn Anderson and also working on the heel side in Wargames matches in the leadup, teaming with Kevin Sullivan's geeks to make matters worse.  He was such a nothing in the grand scheme of things that he was scheduled for a intergender sideshow of a match for the original card where the draw was Missy vs Paul E and the male workers were afterthoughts.  In kayfabe terms, they were plugging an unranked lower midcarder into a world title match for no reason at all.

Now, for anyone closely following WCW at the time and since Windham's return, your assessment on his standing at the time as far as title contention, makes perfect sense. I've never, to my best recollection, watched GAB'91, but when I saw the cover of the home video that said Luger vs Windham, I was like "It's Barry Windham" and no further build-up for title contention was needed.

To me, Windham could challenge for the World title at any time and I would not have a problem with it. Of course, I only saw any WCW at all from 1993 onwards (got Capitol Combat and Starrcade'90 on VHS).

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Worst show feels really tricky to me. I can sort of tick off the shows I've been to on my fingers and toes.

2 1991 WWF house shows. Survivor Series 1993. 1 random local MA indy show in the 90s that had Renegade as Rio Lord of the Jungle maybe? or something (I barely remember this and refuse to count it). A late 98 Nitro. 99 Raw which had the higher power reveal. 1 99 ECW house show. A spattering of Chaotic Wrestling and NECW shows in the 00-01 period. Local show with Eddy in a triple threat. 2002 Smackdown house show maybe? 2003 Rumble. 2003 MSG show. A spattering (3-4 tops) of ROH shows in the 02-05 period. Maybe one more WWE house show. 2015 Rumble. A 2016 NXT house show. I might be missing 1-2 things, but that's basically it.

Objectively, it's probably the Higher Power Raw or some Chaotic Show, which were always fun, but definitely an indy. But I don't think I've ever been to a show that I haven't really enjoyed. That's probably because I've been to so few relatively I guess. It never got old. It's live wrestling, you know? Cheer for the faces. Boo the heels. If you're at a certain age, be a completely annoying smark. It's wrestling.

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What about that time you went to All Japan and Misawa wouldn't acknowledge you screaming right in his face after he lost a match? I may be mixing up reality and the AJPW project into one thing.

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