Kuetsar Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Valid? Sure, but recognize stats produced at levels(that are at best AAAA) as equal to MLB is bullshit. It wasn't their fault_especially Negro leagues) but they shouldn't be treated equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Kuetsar said: Valid? Sure, but recognize stats produced at levels(that are at best AAAA) as equal to MLB is bullshit. It wasn't their fault_especially Negro leagues) but they shouldn't be treated equally. Yeah. Why would MLB recognize Japan League stats? I mean, other than saying "yep, those things happened" like you would NCAA stats from 2017 or something. Japanese baseball isn't major league level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Ehh. You can argue MLB stats pre-integration shouldn't be recognized either. Or that Negro League stats not against the white leagues shouldn't be. Heck, MLB counts the Federal and Player's League stats - and those were poor imitations of leagues. Shoot, you can argue the quality of play in certain eras of MLB aren't totally valid (like the AL in the 50's aside from the Yankees Dynasty or the Deadball Era and 19th Century baseball in general). Last I checked, Cy Young was still credited with 511 wins and...it's a real stretch to think an 1890's pitcher could beat a decent college team of today. The leap in logic to consider Japan (or even the PCL) is more of a stathead overarching concept and comes from now accepting the Negro Leagues as valid. For example, if we accept Josh Gibson as a HOFer (and we should, for sure) and we only look at the stats in league games, we see a poor candidate. But we know he barnstormed, played countless undocumented exhibitions and played winter league in Latin America - and all that combined creates his myth. So we're in fact, appreciating ALL he accomplished even if his stats that will now show on B-Ref or whatever are poor. So in appreciating the whole picture, it's only a hop skip and jump to start appreciating and accepting other leagues - including Japan. MLB will never recognize Japan Leagues in my lifetime, if ever - Japan has its own HOF after all. And it's not like other sports leagues don't dismiss what they don't understand/mesh with (the NFL with the CFL, the NBA with the ABA). But in the stathead community this probably will open doors to giving more consideration to Japanese stars as greats alongside the usual cast of characters we know well. Plus, if it gets Lefty O'Doul in the NBHOF it would be worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) I've always said Japanese stats should be taken into account as a small factor in someone's HOF candicay like Ichiro (who now admittedly doesn't need them to bolster his credenrials). Not added into his MLB stats but to show the breadth of his entire playing career. Similar to a player who played in the Negro Leagues and the MLB. (Not meaning to start HOF debate. Please no) Edited December 18, 2020 by odessasteps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMark Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 13 hours ago, Tabe said: Why would MLB recognize Japan League stats? I would argue that as the governing body of Baseball in the US, MLB shouldn't have to recognise NPB stats, but that's because Japanese Baseball has its own governing body. I think only recognising the AL & NL as so-called Major Leagues is a more defensible stance than recognising some of these other defunct leagues as Majors but not the Negro Leagues; but since that's not the case, I would say recognise them for what they were, which was the highest level that a significant number of players could achieve. That means counting their stats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 On 12/17/2020 at 4:33 PM, EdA said: Ehh. You can argue MLB stats pre-integration shouldn't be recognized either. Or that Negro League stats not against the white leagues shouldn't be. Heck, MLB counts the Federal and Player's League stats - and those were poor imitations of leagues. Shoot, you can argue the quality of play in certain eras of MLB aren't totally valid (like the AL in the 50's aside from the Yankees Dynasty or the Deadball Era and 19th Century baseball in general). Last I checked, Cy Young was still credited with 511 wins and...it's a real stretch to think an 1890's pitcher could beat a decent college team of today. The leap in logic to consider Japan (or even the PCL) is more of a stathead overarching concept and comes from now accepting the Negro Leagues as valid. For example, if we accept Josh Gibson as a HOFer (and we should, for sure) and we only look at the stats in league games, we see a poor candidate. But we know he barnstormed, played countless undocumented exhibitions and played winter league in Latin America - and all that combined creates his myth. So we're in fact, appreciating ALL he accomplished even if his stats that will now show on B-Ref or whatever are poor. So in appreciating the whole picture, it's only a hop skip and jump to start appreciating and accepting other leagues - including Japan. MLB will never recognize Japan Leagues in my lifetime, if ever - Japan has its own HOF after all. And it's not like other sports leagues don't dismiss what they don't understand/mesh with (the NFL with the CFL, the NBA with the ABA). But in the stathead community this probably will open doors to giving more consideration to Japanese stars as greats alongside the usual cast of characters we know well. Plus, if it gets Lefty O'Doul in the NBHOF it would be worth it. I'll have to admit to a moment of shock realizing that O'Doul wasn't already enshrined (as he should be). As an ambassador for the game, few have done more than O'Doul. (BTW: His restaurant in SF was pretty cool, I was expecting a lot more baseball memorabilia, but what was there was really cool.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Jason Varitek has tested positive for Covid-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Of the 3 HOF's for sports played outside this country the Baseball one is unique as unlike the Hockey and Basketball ones that induct players from around the world the Baseball one is only (With the exception of the Negro Leagues) for MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 Howie Kendrick has announced his retirement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 7 hours ago, sabremike said: Of the 3 HOF's for sports played outside this country The CFL just cried a little bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 Josh Bell is being traded to the Nats. Pittsburgh gets two young pitchers back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 57 minutes ago, RIPPA said: Josh Bell is being traded to the Nats. Pittsburgh gets two young pitchers back I have a feeling that this will be another one of those Bucs trade that will age poorly...although I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 On 12/22/2020 at 1:14 AM, Tabe said: The CFL just cried a little bit. Trust me I'm aware of it, but it's not the same code of football and even sadder: Years back the actual CFL HOF shut down and now exists in a scaled down version in the club level at Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 RIP Phil Niekro age 81. Seventh HOF to pass away this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, odessasteps said: RIP Phil Niekro age 81. Seventh HOF to pass away this year. He was the Yankees starter in the first game I ever went to at Yankee Stadium in the summer of 1985 when I was 7 years old. It was Glove Day and it set the record for largest crowd ever at post renovation YS. Remember my dad telling me that if his knuckler was working he'd be mowing everyone down but if it wasn't he was going to get lit up. It wasn't and he got lit up bad by the defending champ Tigers. Edited December 28, 2020 by sabremike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Damn...Padres should be pretty good this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Padres add another young star SS (though he'll move to second now). https://mykbostats.com/players/764-Kim-Haseong-Kiwoom-Heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 14 hours ago, odessasteps said: Do they get 2018 Blake Snell who won a Cy Young? Do they get 2017 and 2019 Blake Snell who missed a bunch of starts and didn't qualify for the ERA title? 2020 Snell who average 4 innings per start? I like this pickup it's definitely not a sure-thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Speaking of the Padres and pitching, they're apparently working on acquiring Yu Darvish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Darius Bagfelt Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Tabe said: Do they get 2018 Blake Snell who won a Cy Young? Do they get 2017 and 2019 Blake Snell who missed a bunch of starts and didn't qualify for the ERA title? 2020 Snell who average 4 innings per start? I like this pickup it's definitely not a sure-thing. That's Tampa's magic. More likely than not San Diego has just picked up Chris Archer the sequel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I'm happy they are trying, but I've been conditioned to expect the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 The Rays easily lost the trade they made with the Padres last year as they already DFA Renfroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 The best is the first comment is a dude stating that he is done with the Cubs as he has been a fan since... checks tweet... 2016 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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