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SEPT 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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3 hours ago, Jiji said:

Earl did that exact thing at the end of an otherwise great Rock/Kurt Angle match at a 2000 or early 2001 PPV. I think he did again later on, so it's definitely been around longer than the 2010s.

It sucks. What sucks just as much are referees, primarily in Japan, who do a  delayed 3rd count so the wrestler can kick out on the third beat for the near fall. Fuck that. 

Hebner's best delayed count was the one he did in the HBK/Sid match at Survivor Series 1996.

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4 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Anecdotally, it seems like refs were trained/told to treat pitfalls as shoots and it was the wrestlers fault if they did not kick out when they supposed to do so. 

That is what they were telling WWE refs 10 years ago. And is why a buddy got let go from WWE. He counted a three in a Matt Hardy ECW match when it wasn't suppose to be a 3.

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3 hours ago, Jiji said:

Earl did that exact thing at the end of an otherwise great Rock/Kurt Angle match at a 2000 or early 2001 PPV. I think he did again later on, so it's definitely been around longer than the 2010s.

It sucks. What sucks just as much are referees, primarily in Japan, who do a  delayed 3rd count so the wrestler can kick out on the third beat for the near fall. Fuck that. 

Hebner's best delayed count was the one he did in the HBK/Sid match at Survivor Series 1996.

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3 hours ago, Jiji said:

Earl did that exact thing at the end of an otherwise great Rock/Kurt Angle match at a 2000 or early 2001 PPV. I think he did again later on, so it's definitely been around longer than the 2010s.

It sucks. What sucks just as much are referees, primarily in Japan, who do a  delayed 3rd count so the wrestler can kick out on the third beat for the near fall. Fuck that. 

Hebner's best delayed count was the one he did in the HBK/Sid match at Survivor Series 1996.

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3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I dislike when referees take ten seconds to count to 3.  Earl Hebner was the worst with his slow ass counts.  Some of the referees in NJPW are way too slow as well.  Just give me a nice smooth 1-2-3..  no hesitations..well paced follow through. 

This is actually a specifically requested production technique in big WWE matches that the ref did the delayed three count. At least in older generations. The thought process was that the tension and anticipation grows the longer the count takes (if it's the big last count for a title change) and would lead to a bigger pop. It kinda defies kayfabe, but what doesn't in WWE lol.

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15 hours ago, Eivion said:

WWE does this. It how Dana Brooke managed to accidentally win a singles match against Bayley several years ago.

I feel like it happened a couple of times in NXT. I think they went through a period of having the refs enforce everything like a “shoot,” including not allowing tags if the outside man wasn’t holding the tag rope and not starting a three count until shoulders were completely on the mat.

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5 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

I feel like it happened a couple of times in NXT. I think they went through a period of having the refs enforce everything like a “shoot,” including not allowing tags if the outside man wasn’t holding the tag rope and not starting a three count until shoulders were completely on the mat.

They have loosened up on the tag rope. They usually still do the shoulders completely on the mat. I wouldn't be shocked if accidental wins and losses happened in NXT as well. 

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29 minutes ago, Eivion said:

They have loosened up on the tag rope. They usually still do the shoulders completely on the mat. I wouldn't be shocked if accidental wins and losses happened in NXT as well. 

Emma won a 4-way match on NXT that Charlotte was supposed to win, because someone didn't kick out for whatever reason.

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59 minutes ago, Eivion said:

They have loosened up on the tag rope. They usually still do the shoulders completely on the mat. I wouldn't be shocked if accidental wins and losses happened in NXT as well. 

An interview with Mickie James made its way into my Twitter feed about a week ago.  In the interview, she tells a story about how she accidentally won the women's title from Victoria at a (house?) show in Paris.  According to her, the ref accidentally counted three, so the agents called an audible and put Mickie and Victoria into another match later in the night, and she dropped the title back to Victoria in the later match.

No idea if WWE recognized the title change or not.  I didn't try to look this match up or see if it's counted as one of her six title reigns.  Mickie acted like she wasn't sure she should tell the story, so I'm guessing WWE didn't acknowledge the match, but I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

An interview with Mickie James made its way into my Twitter feed about a week ago.  In the interview, she tells a story about how she accidentally won the women's title from Victoria at a (house?) show in Paris.  According to her, the ref accidentally counted three, so the agents called an audible and put Mickie and Victoria into another match later in the night, and she dropped the title back to Victoria in the later match.

No idea if WWE recognized the title change or not.  I didn't try to look this match up or see if it's counted as one of her six title reigns.  Mickie acted like she wasn't sure she should tell the story, so I'm guessing WWE didn't acknowledge the match, but I could be wrong.

Wasn't the story behind the double change between the Quebecers and Men on a Mission on the UK tour in 94 that Mabel fell on Pierre and Pierre could not kick out legitimately, or is that just an urban legend from the usenet days?

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On 9/6/2020 at 4:22 PM, Casey said:

It's shocking to see someone spreading disinformation like "you can't die from drug withdrawals - but alcohol, yep, totally!". Never mind the fact that alcohol is a fucking drug, but whatever. Just a total lack of knowledge about what heavy substance abuse can do to your body when you deprive it of something that it's fed off of and now is lacking. Not to mention side effects like depression, which can lead to even more serious issues like, say, suicidal thoughts.

I honestly don't know how I'm still alive after abusing Xanax for half a year like I did back in 2010/2011, but my body is probably going to pay for it eventually. You can't put 5-8 Xanax up your nose, three times a week, for months on end, without there being severe repercussions either immediately after or damaging your body in the long run.

I have had legit rehab centers tell me this. Now, benzo withdrawal is different from opiate withdrawal which is different from alcohol. That's pretty common sense. I've only ever suffered from opiate withdrawal and that was bad enough. I don't want to think about benzo or alcohol. But yeah, legit drug counselors have told me "It will be bad but you won't die so that's good, right?" I've never done it under medical supervision, just the "lock myself in the house and pray for death" method or the "try to tough it out at work while being the most miserable human being" method. The physical aspects are bad but like you bring up, the depression is the worst. It feels like a piece is missing and that makes you depressed. You're also depressed because you know you did this to yourself. Add in the thoughts about engaging in some criminal behavior to get a fix and then the feeling like a piece of shit for having those thoughts and it's all just a gross cycle of self-hate that could lead to the ultimate escape plan. It's bad and I would never wish addiction and withdrawal on anyone. I struggle with this stuff daily. On top of the actual drug issues, add in being in my 30s and having made no advancement in my life, seeing friends from high school succeed, seeing people who are way younger than me do well for themselves....life sucks.

I'm glad I have this place for some escape/peace of mind. This past few months has been really rough for me. I've been considering the s-word multiple times. The day before the shut down my friend had me in their car sitting in front of the mental hospital because I was having a break. I still have those lingering feelings. This was my first full day off with no responsibilities in a while. I've neglected my mental and physical health to the point where after hanging up with my girlfriend of sorts, I put my CPAP mask on and slept for 15 hours straight. I'm still exhausted. For a little mental break and fun I jumped on here, where I've been lurking/occasionally posting since I was like 14. I feel a little better. Thank you to everyone on here. I love you all. This post has gone way too long and I doubt you all will read it but I wanted to get it out. Love this place. Love Ken the Box. Wish we had some more Comix. 

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7 hours ago, Jiji said:

Refs counting as a shoot is absolutely the way to go.

I agree with this, but the only downside is that wrestlers need to do a better job improvising when unplanned finishes happen, because they usually come off very awkward and obviously like a botch off some sort.  That Emma win that was mentioned, iirc, was a prime example of that.

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1 hour ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I have had legit rehab centers tell me this. Now, benzo withdrawal is different from opiate withdrawal which is different from alcohol. That's pretty common sense. I've only ever suffered from opiate withdrawal and that was bad enough. I don't want to think about benzo or alcohol. But yeah, legit drug counselors have told me "It will be bad but you won't die so that's good, right?" I've never done it under medical supervision, just the "lock myself in the house and pray for death" method or the "try to tough it out at work while being the most miserable human being" method. The physical aspects are bad but like you bring up, the depression is the worst. It feels like a piece is missing and that makes you depressed. You're also depressed because you know you did this to yourself. Add in the thoughts about engaging in some criminal behavior to get a fix and then the feeling like a piece of shit for having those thoughts and it's all just a gross cycle of self-hate that could lead to the ultimate escape plan. It's bad and I would never wish addiction and withdrawal on anyone. I struggle with this stuff daily. On top of the actual drug issues, add in being in my 30s and having made no advancement in my life, seeing friends from high school succeed, seeing people who are way younger than me do well for themselves....life sucks.

I'm glad I have this place for some escape/peace of mind. This past few months has been really rough for me. I've been considering the s-word multiple times. The day before the shut down my friend had me in their car sitting in front of the mental hospital because I was having a break. I still have those lingering feelings. This was my first full day off with no responsibilities in a while. I've neglected my mental and physical health to the point where after hanging up with my girlfriend of sorts, I put my CPAP mask on and slept for 15 hours straight. I'm still exhausted. For a little mental break and fun I jumped on here, where I've been lurking/occasionally posting since I was like 14. I feel a little better. Thank you to everyone on here. I love you all. This post has gone way too long and I doubt you all will read it but I wanted to get it out. Love this place. Love Ken the Box. Wish we had some more Comix. 

I'm sorry that you're struggling, man. Know that so many people are struggling too right now. I mean, always, but especially right now. You're not alone. And people care about you and love you. I hope you can find some comfort. Keep posting on the board.

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