Godfrey Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Craig H said: I liked Raven/Goldberg a ton. I was huge mark for Raven at the time, but I was also digging everything Goldberg was doing. You know how you can quickly tell that someone doesn't "get it" when it comes to wrestling? When they say winning streak gimmicks or storylines don't work because what do you do when they have to lose. This is something Bruce Prichard would say all the time. I've heard another booker here or there say the same thing. That's your job, dummy! That's what you're supposed to figure out. Also, huh, that winning streak gimmick really didn't work except for the whole part with Goldberg becoming the biggest draw in the company. As for how you have Goldberg lose, there's definitely ways to do it, but the way Bischoff booked it sure as hell wasn't it. I don't think even Bruce fully believes what he says on that one. Winning streaks are an easy and effective story that work in anything involving competition, for whatever reason in wrestling the follow ups have been lackluster but that's not on the wrestler getting the streak or the angle itself. Also, has Bruce ever called out Undertaker's capital s Streak? I'll presume he hasn't so we know he's just brown nosing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Godfrey said: I don't think even Bruce fully believes what he says on that one. Winning streaks are an easy and effective story that work in anything involving competition, for whatever reason in wrestling the follow ups have been lackluster but that's not on the wrestler getting the streak or the angle itself. Also, has Bruce ever called out Undertaker's capital s Streak? I'll presume he hasn't so we know he's just brown nosing. Not sure if Bruce has ever addressed it because I really only get the recommended bits and pieces on YouTube, but 'Takers streak is kind of an anomaly because it was 1) an accident until like WM X7 and 2) it was only at WM, so you could beat him any other night of the year - you're not backed into the same corner booking wise as with a Goldberg, or more recently, Asuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Hero Morganti Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 In some respects. I can see the difference between Undertaker's Streak, and a generic winning streak gimmick. Taker's streak was "At Mania, this dude is basically untouchable" but he could lose the next night on raw, the next PPV ect and you still were able to buy into it. Even some of the later Streak matches (the HHH & HBK series in particular where it was built up like the keeping the streak going was literally draining Taker outside of mania (there was that awesome Kane feud that happened post streak match where Taker was giving off the vibe that his powers were waning) And yeah, its mostly in the follow up to the streak ending, not the streak ending in and of it self that matters. I personally think losing streak gimmicks can work better to transition from face to heel(either direction) than a winning streak gimmick to move up the card Andddd as I was typing this Zakk makes the same point about Taker that I was 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Godfrey said: There's been points when it feels like we got **** matches on the TV on the regular, it's hard to find ones that stand out aside from the usual suspects so I can only remember the weird ones. A recent match is that marathon Gauntlet Match from Raw in 2018, great showing from Seth Rollins (and I'm not a fan) and great storytelling. The Gauntlet with Kofi was also fantastic. There was a women's gauntlet that was pretty good too. WWE seems to do well with gauntlets. Daniel Bryan was involved in a tremendous one where I believe he and Cesaro went at it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 My favorite Goldberg match outside of DDP at Halloween Havoc came on an episode of Nitro vs. Sting, that it until F.H. stuck his nose in it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Craig H said: As for how you have Goldberg lose, there's definitely ways to do it, but the way Bischoff booked it sure as hell wasn't it. Step One: Build up Goldberg as an nigh-unstoppable force. Step Two: Build up DDP and build the Diamond Cutter as a death move that can come at any time and put anyone down for three. Step Three: Book the two for a title match at Halloween Havoc. Step Four: ..um...Step Four...uh. Shit. I don't know. EDIT: Seriously, though, if I could figure it out, and I shouldn't be booking a show, Bischoff has no excuse. Literally he did all the things that you would do in order to logically end Goldberg's streak and then whiffed somehow. Edited September 21, 2020 by Smelly McUgly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Goldberg eventually losing to DDP seemed like the right choice to me at the time and the right choice to me now. DDP already came close to beating Goldberg once. Knowing how shitty WCW was at that time though, they probably would have DDP beat Goldberg and then immediately put on an nWo shirt after winning the title. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: Not sure if Bruce has ever addressed it because I really only get the recommended bits and pieces on YouTube, but 'Takers streak is kind of an anomaly because it was 1) an accident until like WM X7 and 2) it was only at WM, so you could beat him any other night of the year - you're not backed into the same corner booking wise as with a Goldberg, or more recently, Asuka Yeah, it's a different thing for sure and a poor comparison on my part, I only meant that winning streaks aren't that hard to figure out. Also, Goldberg's streak was kind of an accident at first too, right? Didn't he actually lose to Mongo but they retconned it away? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: There was a women's gauntlet that was pretty good too. WWE seems to do well with gauntlets. Daniel Bryan was involved in a tremendous one where I believe he and Cesaro went at it. That was the one where Nia ran the distance but lost to Sasha at the end. It probably Nia's best match and performance in WWE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I don't understand why WCW continued to run the nWo into the ground just like I don't understand why WWE has continued the run the authority figure into the ground following the success of Austin/McMahon. These weren't some well known timeless formulas that have a history of success. They were one great idea that worked as well as they did BECAUSE of the players who were involved. nWo only works with Hall and Nash coming over from WWF as legit invaders and Hogan being the 3rd man, turning heel for the first time since before Hulkamania. It also only works because Sting is there and he is the franchise, the face of WCW... Austin and McMahon only works because both of them were so great in their roles plus McMahon is shoot the owner of WWE and it occurred in a time where little Hulkamaniacs are now teenagers/early 20-somethings and the language and adult themes are catered to the audience that is now grown up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Honestly looking back I would’ve built up another monster to beat Goldberg clean(Maybe this is where Wrath comes in), then have the monster run roughshod over the WCW roster for a year. Near the one year anniversary you have a rejuvenated Goldberg to avenge his only loss. Think of it like the Batman Knight Fall storyline. I mean I like Wrath, but there is a reason we don’t see a lot of “cool” Wrath gifs. His offense was soft compared to Goldberg’s. Him being the “lame” Goldberg replacement could’ve worked. Edited September 21, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Final rating for Smackdown : 2.037 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Godfrey said: Yeah, it's a different thing for sure and a poor comparison on my part, I only meant that winning streaks aren't that hard to figure out. Also, Goldberg's streak was kind of an accident at first too, right? Didn't he actually lose to Mongo but they retconned it away? "Bill Gold" lost a dark match to Hugh Morris at Nitro. The next week he comes back and wins on TV as Bill Goldberg to start the streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edwin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 19 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: What are some other GREAT TV matches that come to mind? I don't want to count Clash/SNME in that as they are specials. Let's just go with weekly TVs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Mongo left him laying prior to a match starting, so it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said: My favorite Goldberg match outside of DDP at Halloween Havoc came on an episode of Nitro vs. Sting, that it until F.H. stuck his nose in it. That was the Nitro with Flair's return in Greenville...right? Great episode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: Mongo left him laying prior to a match starting, so it never happened. Low-key, I think "loaded briefcase" is one of my favorite unorthodox weapons in pro wrestling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: I wanted to say Hopper was a face in Texas Chainsaw 2 and in True Romance, but those involved him using a woman as bait for serial killers and telling a horrendously racist joke, respectively. And I don't perceive cops to be faces anyway. Shades of grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Harms Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Web Conn said: Was Dennis Hopper ever a babyface? Easy Rider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, Mr Harms said: Easy Rider By extension, maybe Far Out Man? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I guess his role in Apocalypse Now is tweener.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1. DDP Cutters Goldberg and beats him clean as a sheet to beat the streak. 2. DDP offers rematch at next PPV. DDP Cutters Goldberg and beats clean as a sheet in the rematch. 3. DDP vs Hogan at Starrcade 1998. DDP Cutters Hogan and beats him clean as a sheet. nWo post match attack Goldberg out to save DDP. They clear the ring together. Goldberg turns and beats the absolute ever loving fuck out of DDP. Hardcore blade job / injury angle / strip the title because DDP may never wrestle again. Goldberg is a murder death heel with no emotions (but DOES NOT join the nWo). 4. Goldberg wins a tournament to get the title back and goes back to wrecking people for a year while DDP slowly relearns how to walk. 5. DDP vs Goldberg for the title at Starrcade 1999 and you make alllll the moneies. It's pretty easy to come up with a story post streak. Just gotta have a plan and stick to it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: DDP Cutters Hogan and beats him clean as a sheet. LOL. 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, nate said: By extension, maybe Far Out Man? You are confusing 'Far Out Man' with 'Flashback' w/Keifer Sutherland. I believe Hopper debuted as a face on an early episode of 'the Rifleman'. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) He was a face in My Science Project. He was also a heel who turned face in True Grit. Edited September 21, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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