All Out II - 9/5/2020

[The Natural]

Haven't listened yet. Will when this goes through.

[John E. Dynamite]

4 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Haven't listened yet. Will when this goes through.

Before I click this - is this news? Is more information provided in this video than what I already know? Or is this just more public pearl-clutching for upvotes?

I think the situation was shit. I think Doc Sampson gets rightfully fired and, knowing Matt to the extent a fan would know him, might publicly apologize. But I don't have time for people patting themselves on the back for how loudly they can identify a fuck-up.

[Tromatagon]

It's a solid recap and then a lot of "Dude what the fuck?" talk.  It's a solid listen for those seeking more info on what happened, but those are present here.  If you need to catch up, the clip is great.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Tromatagon

[hammerva]

1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

One thing I'd like to bring up about the Matt situation -

I get (some) of the anger over the bad call, I really do. But, do people think that AEW was being malicious in continuing the match? I think they just made a bad judgement. If they were being intentionally obtuse, that would be a whole different thing.

It is stupid to think that Tony Khan was being malicious and was trying to go all 1999 Over the Edge on people.   But what it really showed to me that most people kind of already knew is that Tony Khan isn't really a leader of this company he is just a money man who is such a huge mark for wrestling that he will let the boys control things.   You don't let Matt make the decision.   You would think that someone in the back who has actual experience like a Billy Gunn or Dustin Rhodes or Dean Malenko would have told him shit like that. 

[Infinit]

A couple more thoughts

4 hours is just way too long. Even if everything is running on all cylinders, to me it's just too much. I understand that PPVs are quarterly and they want they want to add value...but they need to keep the shows in the 3 hour range. 

And as @bazzil said before, Kingston definitely slide under the bottom rope before he was eliminated. Unless they rule that him sitting on the turnbuckle is "over the top", there is potential for dispute. Which would add an interesting layer, if it goes that route.

[TheVileOne]

22 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Before I click this - is this news? Is more information provided in this video than what I already know? Or is this just more public pearl-clutching for upvotes?

I think the situation was shit. I think Doc Sampson gets rightfully fired and, knowing Matt to the extent a fan would know him, might publicly apologize. But I don't have time for people patting themselves on the back for how loudly they can identify a fuck-up.

Not really. A lot of "but again" from Dave Meltzer.

[TheVileOne]

What happened was a bad judgment call. I would've had more respect for Tony Khan had even after they allowed it to continue, if he said it was a mistake and a bad judgment call and apologized to Matt Hardy.

Secondly, it's time for AEW to tone down the gimmick matches. There are just too many. You don't need this many gimmick matches on a 12 match event. This isn't ECW.

Too many gimmick matches and too many huge bumps.

Edited September 6, 2020 by TheVileOne

[Jiji]

1 minute ago, TheVileOne said:

What happened was a bad judgment call. I would've had more respect for Tony Khan had even after they allowed it to continue, he said it was a mistake and a bad judgment call and apologized to Matt Hardy.

I don't think he can even if he feels that way due to the legal issues that would arise from such a statement. Am I way off on that one?

[Casey]

Honestly, if I was Tony Khan and had called the match off, and then a medical professional tells me 5 minutes later that the guy is okay and fine to wrestle... I don't know that I wouldn't follow his lead on that. This is the type of stuff they're hired for. Outside looking in, yeah, absolutely, it's easy to say just call it off. And to Khan's credit, that's what he did... but then their lead doctor said it was okay.

[TheVileOne]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

I don't think he can even if he feels that way due to the legal issues that would arise from such a statement. Am I way off on that one?

You could very well be right, but even if he didn't, there could still be legal issues anyway, as we saw with the Owen Hart situation and Vince McMahon, WWE, and Jerry McDevitt digging their heels on that whole incident.

[TheVileOne]

1 minute ago, Casey said:

Honestly, if I was Tony Khan and had called the match off, and then a medical professional tells me 5 minutes later that the guy is okay and fine to wrestle... I don't know that I wouldn't follow his lead on that. This is the type of stuff they're hired for. Outside looking in, yeah, absolutely, it's easy to say just call it off. And to Khan's credit, that's what he did... but then their lead doctor said it was okay.

Saying Hardy passed concussion protocol though, are you kidding me? 

[hammerva]

I will say that in the positive that AEW might have actually built a new star on their own in Will Hobbs.  He looked very impressive in the battle royal.   I guess we will see if that was just a one time thing and he will be back to jobbing on AEW Dark

 

[Craig H]

11 minutes ago, hammerva said:

It is stupid to think that Tony Khan was being malicious and was trying to go all 1999 Over the Edge on people.   But what it really showed to me that most people kind of already knew is that Tony Khan isn't really a leader of this company he is just a money man who is such a huge mark for wrestling that he will let the boys control things.   You don't let Matt make the decision.   You would think that someone in the back who has actual experience like a Billy Gunn or Dustin Rhodes or Dean Malenko would have told him shit like that. 

Tony made the mistake of deferring to the head doctor who cleared Matt, not just letting the boys control things. Your paragraph would be more accurate if you said the head doctor is such a mark for wrestling that he let Matt control the match. As it is, Tony could have decided against his doctor and kept the match stopped, but he listened to the doctor more than anything. Tony was also the person who told the ref to throw up the X and stop the match in her ear piece.

Tony is without a doubt the leader, but he is also guilty of not micromanaging everything, ala Vince. Meltzer and Alvarez touched on that by saying that too much crazy shit happens in AEW and you have to step in and say no more crazy shit. They also have numerous EVPs and other head guys in the back that could say no to some stuff and they don't either. So, what do you do then? Do you gain your employees trusting trust by trusting them, or do you micromanage everything?

In the end, it was a bad call. If nothing else, Tony has repeatedly shown he doesn't double down or dig his heels in, he listens and makes changes. I have no reason to think he would do otherwise for this situation. 

[Casey]

Just now, TheVileOne said:

Saying Hardy passed concussion protocol though, are you kidding me? 

I think we've long known that concussion protocol in wrestling isn't what it should be. Say what you will about CM Punk, but he's went into detail about how WWE handled his issues. It's probably similar to that. It's obvious shit like that needs to change and it's long overdue.

[Craig H]

And yeah, I don't see how you don't at least demote Doc Sampson, if not release him. 

[John from Cincinnati]

2 hours ago, Jiji said:

And I nearly forgot about Sydal, who is almost always technically crisp and brilliant but boring, botching his big debut.

Spoken like someone whose third eye is closed!

[TheVileOne]

42 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Before I click this - is this news? Is more information provided in this video than what I already know? Or is this just more public pearl-clutching for upvotes?

I think the situation was shit. I think Doc Sampson gets rightfully fired and, knowing Matt to the extent a fan would know him, might publicly apologize. But I don't have time for people patting themselves on the back for how loudly they can identify a fuck-up.

"They do -- they do -- they do crazy stuff in WWE!"

Here's my general problem with Tony Khan's statement. If Matt Hardy is now definitely concussed and suffered a concussion, than the man definitely did not pass concussion protocol! And it was clear to most people watching that Hardy was badly concussed. So trying to talk your way out of this saying he passed concussion protocol is moronic.

Edited September 6, 2020 by TheVileOne

[MavsFan77]

4 hours ago, Flair’s Shadow said:

Hey psycho....I’m doing a bit. You get it? If I was trying to put myself off as some insider I wouldn’t be calling myself the shadow you dumbass.

Now you...you got issues. You stalked me like you have you have me as one of your love interests. Just to let you know pal I’m not interested. 
 

You spend half your posts talking about me which means I have made an impact on your life I guess but maybe you should pick up another hoppy because you are a bit on the obsessive side don’t you think?

lol.

Calm the hell down. I know you’re doing a bit, and I’m just giving you crap about how stale and silly your bit has become. Especially when you make as many posts as you did this week about a fake stable that never debuted. If you’d posted it once then yeah it would be funny, but you kept doubling down repeatedly on it.

And no I’m not interested in you or any other internet troll, but thanks. 

As for half my posts referencing you that’s not even close to true, but whatever helps you sleep better in bed with your mommy at night. As for picking up another hoppy I don’t really fancy a beer, but since I’ll assume even a moron such as yourself meant hobby I don’t need one. Commenting on a wrestling promotion I enjoy, and calling out a troll is fun. 

And nice lol at the end. Very mature, and a good way to prove you’re an adult and not just some teenage loser who only recently got internet access.

[Raziel]

I wasn't aware Concussion Protocol only takes... 64 seconds.

[John E. Dynamite]

To boil down the conclusion that we've all come to (I think we're all on the same page here): If Matt Hardy passed concussion protocol, then concussion protocol failed.  Whoever is in charge of deciding what concussion protocol is AND/OR who carries out concussion protocol failed to do their jobs. And that must be immediately addressed.

[hammerva]

1 minute ago, Raziel said:

I wasn't aware Concussion Protocol only takes... 64 seconds.

I mean if you are STILL in the hospital because of concussion issues are you technically out of Concussion Protocol?  I guess it only applies to the building the show is on 

 

[TheVileOne]

AEW was very lucky in this situation. Putting all the anger aside here, Tony Khan really needs to take this moment and reflect on what happened and make some changes.

It's been 21 years since Owen Hart, and I feel like we haven't really learned anything. And part of it is "the show must go on mentality."

I'm sorry to bring the Owen Hart thing up. I realize it's not the same. But that was one of the worst tragedies the business has ever seen. I just feel like many mistakes were made here. People can die from falling shorter heights.

Edited September 6, 2020 by TheVileOne

[A_K]

4 hours ago, AxB said:

Man, it isn't just that HHH was such a boring, awful, selfish wrestler. He also stayed on top for so long that there's a whole generation of Wrestlers who've grown up thinking H is the prototype for how to be a top heel.

Triple H and the general programming / storylines were exceptional in 2000 - especially first part of the year. AEW wishes on a star they could capture that lightning in a bottle. To be honest don't even see much comparison in the MJF approach & Triple H's. For one Triple H had about 4 inches & 20 kgs on him -- their promo style is also very different. Don't really know who of times-past MJF would be a comparison to .. I've mentioned early-Angle on here before, he's a different character of course but maybe his pomposity/physicality is more suited there.

Bit of a tricky route for how they take MJF now. Huge fan of him, but actually think of the two Wardlow may have the higher ceiling so they can't really sacrifice either in a feud. TBH would probably just extend the MJF program with Moxley and have a second match. There's already a lot of half baked / loose-end storylines hanging around the place, they probably don't really want to start another one.

[Raziel]

5 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I mean if you are STILL in the hospital because of concussion issues are you technically out of Concussion Protocol?  I guess it only applies to the building the show is on 

 

Well, I mean, the elapsed time from when the camera finally cut off Hardy to when it cut back to Sammy coming out of whatever room that was and the fighting started again was 64 seconds.  So during that time, Sampson, after Hardy could not stand without help, determined he was ok to finish the match.

Thats a pretty big failure, especially since this isn't the first time someone finished a match after visibly having their bell rung in this company.

[hammerva]

 I wonder if they can could have done a work around if Sammy sold the table bump as well.   As soon as he jumped up it ruined any plans for stopping the match right there.    This isn't a knock on Sammy as he clearly couldn't have seen that.