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"Did Anna Jay have a wardrobe malfunction or is that just wishful thinking?" in 2020 should be the final straw and they send JR on his way. Fucking grubby. One of those moments you feel embarrassed watching in the same room as non wrestling people.

The Darby bump was ill conceived and made even worse by Cage showing no regard for his safety with the landing (right on the edge of the step).

Nothing I can really add to the Matt bump that hasn't already been said. It was stupid enough that Matt was going over Sami again, but to go to such lengths...yeah nah. 

FTR are lucky to avoid both the Randy Orton level criticisms for boring, plodding affairs (especially when Orton is a phenomenal story teller, FTR don't really tell one at all), and probably need the sort of criticisms that Private Party get about being reigned in, not for high spots as such, but having their matches go too long for no other reason than ego jerk. It was just pointless, and a story that could have been told ten minutes earlier.

The story told in the main event seemed a misstep. Who was really clambering for MJF shows he's actually really tough and has a 50/50 bloodbath with the toughest guy on the roster? Why build him up as undefeated when its such an afterthought in the context of an otherwise really smart finish. Given he's now an afterthought with Archer already underway, could he work face against Wardlow? Maybe. 

Mimosa match was good and had nice novelty value, but in hindsight, should have been the second match in the trilogy. Orange getting his revenge and a win without visually pinning him, before pulling out the fluke win works better. 

What was the point of Bucks vs JE, other than to reach the point of new contenders to the tag champs? Bucks work as super serious angry guys on the go home show, they're guilty by association with Kenny's beat down on Marko a few weeks back, then work this match straight down the line, and then reject leaving with Kenny at the end of the show. JE were the wrong team to drop the fall. The former tag champs/SCU would have been better here.

Enjoyed the two women's matches. Britt and Shida had some good chemistry last time around and I hope they get another go at it.

I hope Kip's best man isn't the return of Jimmy Havoc.

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37 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

"Did Anna Jay have a wardrobe malfunction or is that just wishful thinking?" in 2020 should be the final straw and they send JR on his way. Fucking grubby. One of those moments you feel embarrassed watching in the same room as non wrestling people.

The Darby bump was ill conceived and made even worse by Cage showing no regard for his safety with the landing (right on the edge of the step).

Nothing I can really add to the Matt bump that hasn't already been said. It was stupid enough that Matt was going over Sami again, but to go to such lengths...yeah nah. 

FTR are lucky to avoid both the Randy Orton level criticisms for boring, plodding affairs (especially when Orton is a phenomenal story teller, FTR don't really tell one at all), and probably need the sort of criticisms that Private Party get about being reigned in, not for high spots as such, but having their matches go too long for no other reason than ego jerk. It was just pointless, and a story that could have been told ten minutes earlier.

The story told in the main event seemed a misstep. Who was really clambering for MJF shows he's actually really tough and has a 50/50 bloodbath with the toughest guy on the roster? Why build him up as undefeated when its such an afterthought in the context of an otherwise really smart finish. Given he's now an afterthought with Archer already underway, could he work face against Wardlow? Maybe. 

 

37 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

Mimosa match was good and had nice novelty value, but in hindsight, should have been the second match in the trilogy. Orange getting his revenge and a win without visually pinning him, before pulling out the fluke win works better. 

What was the point of Bucks vs JE, other than to reach the point of new contenders to the tag champs? Bucks work as super serious angry guys on the go home show, they're guilty by association with Kenny's beat down on Marko a few weeks back, then work this match straight down the line, and then reject leaving with Kenny at the end of the show. JE were the wrong team to drop the fall. The former tag champs/SCU would have been better here.

Enjoyed the two women's matches. Britt and Shida had some good chemistry last time around and I hope they get another go at it.

I hope Kip's best man isn't the return of Jimmy Havoc.

 

I agree JR should be phased out gracefully, but it's not going to happen unless people really put pressure on, and with the Matt situation, that's going to get the attention instead, and rightfully so.  JR is a shell of himself, and it's like seeing Willie Mays with the Mets level  or Tom Glavine in his last Braves run bad.

MJF, for him to really draw money, he can't just be a Miz type chickenshit heel- there's a ceiling on characters like the Miz, and MJF should go beyond that ceiling- he's too talented to just be the Miz.  He has to be a Jay White chickenshit who when things get rough can fight too type of heel.  Also, it will make it easier for him to be a face down the road if necessary.   MJF is also good at this style of match too- he had a good one with Mance Warner as his going away match in MLW a few months back right before the shutdown.

The match also showed why MJF is not on Mox's level yet.  MJF had moments of mental weakness throughout the match.  He had the physical tools and signs of the grit needed to be a world champion, but when things got tough, he still always looked for the shortcut even when a shortcut wasn't needed.  Mox only did the shortcut when it was needed, and that's why he won- and there was a good shoutout to Yano during that exchange too which was awesome- Mox learned from his G1.  Shortcuts and gimmicks become less effective the more you rely on them.   What we need now is an MJF growth arc, though I'm not sure how to do it- there's a lot of good directions to go, and AEW has shown they can do some good long-term booking that keeps me interested.

Mox-MJF was an excellent story all across the board, a very good match even without the story, and even better if you followed Mox's G1 run last year.   I'd say it was the 2nd best match in AEW history behind Bucks vs Hangman/Omega.  This card had two of AEW's top 10 all time matches (Shida vs Rosa is at least top 10, maybe top 5), it just had WCW amounts of shit attached to it that drags it down to their worst PPV ever.

I thought the tag match was fine, though it go a bit long, and matches should be shorter in outdoor arenas due to the heat.  Most guys can't go for 20-25 in those conditions crisply.  15-20 would have been perfect.  Told the story well, good match, and FTR needed to win even though it was obvious.  The Elite melodrama works for me, even if I don't think it works for everyone- but there's stuff in AEW which doesn't work for me, and as long as I get enough of what I want, I can accept not everything is for me.  I'm older than the fan AEW wants.

 

Edited by alstein
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44 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

"Did Anna Jay have a wardrobe malfunction or is that just wishful thinking?" in 2020 should be the final straw and they send JR on his way. Fucking grubby. One of those moments you feel embarrassed watching in the same room as non wrestling people.

Yep, he's old enough to be her grandfather... Wouldn't be ok even if they were the same age. There's being old fashioned and then there's being a pervy old man. Weird, but happy how Schiavone doesn't have the same issue despite the same experience.

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43 minutes ago, alstein said:

MJF, for him to really draw money, he can't just be a Miz type chickenshit heel- there's a ceiling on characters like the Miz, and MJF should go beyond that ceiling- he's too talented to just be the Miz.  He has to be a Jay White chickenshit who when things get rough can fight too type of heel.  Also, it will make it easier for him to be a face down the road if necessary.   MJF is also good at this style of match too- he had a good one with Mance Warner as his going away match in MLW a few months back right before the shutdown.

The match also showed why MJF is not on Mox's level yet.  MJF had moments of mental weakness throughout the match.  He had the physical tools and signs of the grit needed to be a world champion, but when things got tough, he still always looked for the shortcut even when a shortcut wasn't needed.  Mox only did the shortcut when it was needed, and that's why he won- and there was a good shoutout to Yano during that exchange too which was awesome- Mox learned from his G1.  Shortcuts and gimmicks become less effective the more you rely on them.   What we need now is an MJF growth arc, though I'm not sure how to do it- there's a lot of good directions to go, and AEW has shown they can do some good long-term booking that keeps me interested.

Mox-MJF was an excellent story all across the board, a very good match even without the story, and even better if you followed Mox's G1 run last year.   I'd say it was the 2nd best match in AEW history behind Bucks 

I think they're great points, and agree that it should be the long term arc that MJF goes for. Agreed that he needed to be less Miz and it has less long term value, but feel as though they missed a step in the story telling there.

The MVP/Benoit matches were a good example of him learning and gradually improving/scouting weaknesses to a point where he just schooled Benoit in their final match. I'd have liked to see something similar here rather than just jumping into HHH 2000 cosplay.

 

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Schiavone is still Married, whereas JR is a Widower and apparently completely single. Although having said that, he has daughters and Granddaughters, so you'd think he'd know to behave himself around younger women.

2 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

I'd have liked to see something similar here rather than just jumping into HHH 2000 cosplay.

Man, it isn't just that HHH was such a boring, awful, selfish wrestler. He also stayed on top for so long that there's a whole generation of Wrestlers who've grown up thinking H is the prototype for how to be a top heel.

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I think as good as his 2000 was in its isolated context, its set this ridiculous precedent for how much of the match the heel should take, irrespective of whether they're going over or not.

I really can't remember a HHH match, heel or face where he didn't take 50% of the match at a minimum. Regardless of the result. There was never a match from his first title win onwards where he didn't just get absolutely dominated. Even his against the odds matches with Khali and Kozlov had some fairly elaborate comeback sessions.

And now, like you say, its the standard for every young heel with a decent title run - Roode in TNA, Ciampa, Cole, Rollins first run, that they need to not show undue fear towards the baby face, go toe to toe with them, cheat, still win or only lose due to slipping on a banana peel. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

So let’s see how the Wonderful, and All Knowing Shadow did with this post:

MJF & FTR together at the end of All Out: Nope

Wardlow being turned on by MJF at All Out: Nope

MJF winning the world title at All Out: Nope

The supposed Apocalypse debuting: Nope

Warlord bloodied at All Out: Nope 

So congratulations again All Knowing, and Powerful Shadow. Your predictions continue to stink, yet you still claim to know inside information. 

BTW where’s my credit for telling you and everyone else who the Exalted One was before he debuted? MavsFan knows and remembers.
 

Hey psycho....I’m doing a bit. You get it? If I was trying to put myself off as some insider I wouldn’t be calling myself the shadow you dumbass.

Now you...you got issues. You stalked me like you have you have me as one of your love interests. Just to let you know pal I’m not interested. 
 

You spend half your posts talking about me which means I have made an impact on your life I guess but maybe you should pick up another hoppy because you are a bit on the obsessive side don’t you think?

lol.

Edited by Flair’s Shadow
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Remember when we all thought he was Thibs? Becoming a gimmick account is probably preferable to that.

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1 hour ago, King Leonidas Of Sparta said:

Yep, he's old enough to be her grandfather... Wouldn't be ok even if they were the same age. There's being old fashioned and then there's being a pervy old man. Weird, but happy how Schiavone doesn't have the same issue despite the same experience.

It's not just this.  They're coworkers.  Her co-worker said this about her while she was out doing her job in a company that tries to pride themselves as progressive and equal.  There's no place for that shit in 2020 - if most of us did this at our jobs there would be a huge problem.

To change the subject to the other topic of the night:

Another fucked up thing about the Hardy situation is that Lucha Underground did the same spot and took the time to gimmick the fuck out of it to the point of delaying part of the show.  They had extra padding, and also did two tables, but built a rig on the bottom table to hold the legs of the top table (like these little circle pads).  So AEW with way more money and a ton of LUs roster that were there that night did none of these things.

Tony, I love you man and I want you to succeed and don't like shitting all over it but last night was fucked up dude.

Edited by Tromatagon
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46 minutes ago, AxB said:

Remember when we all thought he was Thibs? Becoming a gimmick account is probably preferable to that.

I told you guys he's not Thibs/EN090. FS is some dude from the south. 

It's pretty easy to figure out who EN090 is now, but I'm not going to say here. 

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I love AEW as much as anybody but last night was a disaster. I watched the back of a dude's skull bounce off of the ground after falling from a great height. He couldn't fucking walk minutes after the bump. Aubrey Edwards, a young female referee working in a sexist society in a sexist industry, made the call to stop the match when a veteran's "career" was on the line knowing it would make things very difficult for Hardy and AEW to recover from. How bad must've Hardy's condition been for her to make the call? Concussion protocol? How much time passed between the doctor arriving at the scene and Matt continuing the match? He probably had the time to look at his eyes and ask him boxing referee type questions about location and date. What's fucked is that this looked kind of pre taped and the whole feud was about blurring the dividing line  kayfabe/reality so for a minute I wasn't sure what was going on despite clearly seeing Matt's head crack on the concrete or wooden ramp, whatever that was. I thought it was some Matt Hardy weird post modernist performance to find his next gimmick of being a mad man. Sadly, he's just mad and Tony and company allowing it to go on sucks. I don't get the dogmatic takes here, that also makes me sad. If this happened in WWE, we would rightfully shit all over it. I hope it's true that Matt somehow came away from that unscathed but there's no way in hell they could say they fucked up legally before settling the issue with the Hardys. To say they fucked up would open them up to a massive lawsuit, so they won't. Which shows another aspect of how fucked up our society is. 

Don't even get me started on Jim Ross. He needs to do pre-taped interviews and be the cranky critical voice in meetings providing the young booking crew a different perspective. That's it. I don't want him near a live mic. That was not okay. This isn't 1999. It was wrong then, it's inexcusable now. 

The women's match highlighted their champion's weaknesses in physicality and highlighted how much better Rosa is. When she was going for the cradle lucha submission, she couldn't get Shida up and was like audibly saying "will you work with me?" It looked like Shida was sandbagging her all night not going up for stuff. Pretty clear they've never worked together. And how much better was Rosa's knee off the chair? Rosa isn't perfect but she's come way farther than Shida has in her short time wrestling and is way smoother. Shida has too many awkward movements in the ring where she goes half speed. Room to be a very good wrestler but she's a vet of 12 years. If she's not smoother now when will she be? Off night for her but even at her best these things still exist to a lesser degree. Way too long but fine. Sign Rosa if at all remotely possible if you want to save your shit ass division. She's crisp, a great athlete, great promo, and has amazing presence. That intro gear ruled hard. 

And I nearly forgot about Sydal, who is almost always technically crisp and brilliant but boring, botching his big debut. A battle royal has dudes on the ropes in the corner all the time. I have little doubt that the top rope was covered in sweat on a hot night like last night. Feel for him but they recovered well enough only for Darby to take a classic Darby bump. Yikes. 

I couldn't stop thinking about Matt after that shit went down. Maybe I try to finish the show another day but I'm still hot about it. I'm not going to give up on AEW but this was a big blow to my fandom. Not only was the wrestling ranging from bad/boring to fine up to the tag match where I stopped and way too long for a humid gross night (Fight for the Fallen '19 was much the same and that they didn't learn from that disaster of a main event is bad), they had one shitty moment and one inexcusable moment. They gotta bounce back strong from this. More importantly I hope Matt is good. This really fucking sucked and makes me so sad. I want more than anything for this company to be great and successful. This ain't it. 

Edited by Jiji
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I think the Hardy match should've been stopped, and the stipulation worked out after. Matt looked fucked. However, the reaction here is a bit over the top, in my opinion. Of all the crazy things we've seen in wrestling, a guy being knocked out and continuing isn't all that nuts. 

Sydal eating shit on that SSP was unfortunate, it really killed his entrance. 

Darby taking that bump in a bodybag isn't my idea of a saturday night, but he's a madman and he probably does it for funsies in his spare time. 

I thought the women's title match was really good, and hopefully Thunder Rosa gets another shot down the line. They went hard, and they delivered. 

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The crowd sounds way louder on this fan-shot video than they did on the PPV broadcast. Also, that was Stella Kae at ringside with the pink hair on the babyface side. I saw Ben Carter with the heels as well.

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Carter was also at the most recent Impact tapings.  I assume he’s getting a hard look from the big promotions right now.  Not sure he’s ready yet, though.

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3 minutes ago, Six String Orchestra said:

On a lesser note, why pour thumbtacks during a battle royal? I couldn't parse out who but I heard someone calling out to watch for the tacks. Just a lot of poor decisions that compounded last night. 

Would have been less bad if they'd all (or mostly) gone in the body bag. Well, not for Darby, but it was his spot to take. But I think Cage accidentally poured them mostly on top of the bag, and then when he went to pull it closed they all slid off.

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One thing I'd like to bring up about the Matt situation -

I get (some) of the anger over the bad call, I really do. But, do people think that AEW was being malicious in continuing the match? I think they just made a bad judgement. If they were being intentionally obtuse, that would be a whole different thing.

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This feels like one of the cases where intent doesn't matter. Either way they let an independent contractor continue to work while clearly concussed, knowing he would try to climb a scaffold. 

Edit: one last whine and I'll move on with my life. JR saying he'll invite the winner of the women's title match over for some dinner was fucking weird. While wrestling is a looks business, Shazza McKenzie is right. Stop sexualizing female athletes. If they're beautiful let it go unsaid. Same with men. We have eyes. Stop saying creepy shit. 

Edited by Jiji
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14 minutes ago, Jiji said:

This feels like one of the cases where intent doesn't matter. Either way they let an independent contractor continue to work while clearly concussed, knowing he would try to climb a scaffold. 

Edit: one last whine and I'll move on with my life. JR saying he'll invite the winner of the women's title match over for some dinner was fucking weird. While wrestling is a looks business, Shazza McKenzie is right. Stop sexualizing female athletes. If they're beautiful let it go unsaid. Same with men. We have eyes. Stop saying creepy shit. 

My wife actually has a good saying about this; Read the News, Don't Editorialize. I think it's completely acceptable to say "Becky Lynch is a strikingly attractive woman." I don't think it's at all acceptable to say "I want Becky Lynch's clothes to magically fall off." Maybe that's not the best example, but I've got a one month old baby keeping us up and haven't gotten much sleep. 

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