sdinma Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Zimmerman was following Martin even though Martin was actively attempting to lose him, which makes it a little more than just "walking in the same direction." You are correct that 911 dispatchers cannot tell a caller what to do, mainly because of liability issues, but neighborhood watch guidelines say that you should follow their suggestions whenever possible. They also dissuade people from carrying firearms while out on patrol. I obviously can't say why Zimmerman chose Martin to pursue over any of the others he'd called the cops on (although do we know for sure that he was carrying a gun every single other time?), but his words and demeanor during the call indicate that he had become frustrated with the police's inability to catch any of them, so maybe he'd just had enough and decided that that night was the night to take a more active role? Zimmerman's own account of events is that Martin didn't throw the first punch until he brought his hands to his pockets; he says it was to get his cell phone, but Martin may have believed (correctly, it turns out) that Zimmerman was armed and was going to draw a weapon. As to why Martin didn't run, if he did indeed believe Zimmerman to be packing, why would he put himself at risk of being shot in the back by turning tail and running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Thanks, Benji. It sounds like it's been really hard on you that people on forums everywhere aren't accepting the defense team's story unquestioningly, right up to Martin's dialogue that a villain in a Steven Seagal movie would be ashamed to spout. Would you like a cold drink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 If Trayvon did fear he was going for a gun then why not scream for help because he had a gun? The only person who walked out and saw the fight say Zimmerman on the bottom screaming for help to him and no mention of a gun was made. Trayvon should have stopped running the first time and just turned around and say "fuck you my dad lives here" when Zimmerman asked him what he was doing. Zimmerman should have stayed put, but not doing is no reason for Trayvons assault. Neither is "assuming he was reaching for a gun", if Zimmerman posed a clear visible threat then I would agree with his actions but it is all guess work. There is also the evidence that Trayvon was quite violent and used to fighting, but that was not entered into the court case so is irrelevant. Now we have people agitated with the murdered, open season on blacks and child killer rhetoric going through their heads, most of which never learned a thing about the case. Thats the people causing damage not the people holding vigils. And more damage will come when it gets out that the Martins case against Zimmerman will only pay out the equivalent of Trayvons earning power and everyone jumps on the "institutionalized racism" train. There is a time to fight racism but this is not the case to do it. Thanks, Benji. It sounds like it's been really hard on you that people on forums everywhere aren't accepting the defense team's story unquestioningly, right up to Martin's dialogue that a villain in a Steven Seagal movie would be ashamed to spout. Would you like a cold drink? Please show the evidence that disproves the defenses claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Please show the evidence that disproves the defenses claims? Your client did a good job of murdering that evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Your client did a good job of murdering that evidence. Client? So you have no evidence to disprove his claims? Sounds like you are a little paranoid and profiling Zimmerman as a liar for being the defendant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdinma Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 If someone's pulling a gun on you who's standing right next to you, what are the odds that screaming is going to get him to stop in that split second, or get someone to you in time to stop them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Client? Oh I'm sorry. You were taking Zimmerman's attorneys' claims as gospel, and you seem to think that doing so places the burden of proof for having a different opinion on everyone else, so between the possibilites that you were utterly credulous or actually part of his defense team, I assumed the latter. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 If someone's pulling a gun on you who's standing right next to you, what are the odds that screaming is going to get him to stop in that split second, or get someone to you in time to stop them? I meant when he was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the floor. Seems unusual to grab a guys head if you fear they have a gun. See how nothing adds up, the prosecution thought about all this and they had no evidence to believe these theories. Yes for all we know Zimmerman waved the gun around, said "come here blackie" then shot him, but there is no evidence that supports that. If there is I hope it comes out and he is punished accordingly. What is making people believe these claims? Whatever is proving to them without doubt that Zimmerman is lying I would like to see it. Oh I'm sorry. You were taking Zimmerman's attorneys' claims as gospel, and you seem to think that doing so places the burden of proof for having a different opinion on everyone else, so between the possibilites that you were utterly credulous or actually part of his defense team, I assumed the latter. My apologies. Burden of proof is on those disproving Zimmerman as he is the only living eyewitness. Sorry for being so foolish for not seeing the truth, I need to start basing my opinions not on what physical evidence backs up but what hypothetical I can think up next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdinma Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Again, based on the fact that Zimmerman was going into his pants, I think Martin thought he was going for a gun and rushed him in an attempt to keep him from getting it out. If you have someone on the ground who you think has a gun, yeah, you might want to render them unconscious before you call the cops or run so that they can't get the gun and shoot you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Obama spoke today on race and the Trayvon case. So naturally a bunch of shook-up white folks are screaming "RACE WAR!" because a black man pointed out that racism still exists. Ladies and gentlemen, I declare it National Cracka Day. Because I am fucking sick of priviliged white Americans who scream "RACISM!" out of one side of their mouth and then bitch about the brownfolk from the other side. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think there is truth in both videos, but both guys go just overboard to the point of being a little foolish. Pastor Manning has some perspectives on blackness that I think are valid, but he goes too far by making it a sin and that you need to repent to absolve it. The munchies bit is pure showmanship and foolish, and it takes away from anything valuable he has to say.The other fellow, who I hadn't heard of before, is actually saying ideas I've said probably in this thread. But mine is more targeted at the general population and isn't nearly as racially charged. Honestly, I'm not sure I could properly use half the words he said, because I don't have that perspective to properly identify a "buck dancer". And really I think those kind of words, and the race baiting in general, mask the larger issue. To me, he's got the right idea but is ruining his point with the slurs.I'd actually like to hear more from Charles Barkley, who seems to get the big picture, and has a more balanced perspective.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfReCoRRIow&feature=youtube_gdata_player Thanks for writing what I couldn't. You're a pal Jae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Again, based on the fact that Zimmerman was going into his pants, I think Martin thought he was going for a gun and rushed him in an attempt to keep him from getting it out. If you have someone on the ground who you think has a gun, yeah, you might want to render them unconscious before you call the cops or run so that they can't get the gun and shoot you. Okay lets say the first part is the truth, I am saying when Trayvon was ontop of Zimmerman, scared for his life because this creepy guy has a gun, why did he not use his mouth to scream "help he has a gun" I am pretty sure I can use my mouth and hands at the same time, I'm sure Trayvon could. Not hard to understand, being scared of a gun = screaming for help because the guy has a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Perhaps the same reason that drowning people don't scream that they're drowning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Perhaps the same reason that drowning people don't scream that they're drowning. Trayvon had his mouth covered? When Zimmerman was reaching for his gun? and Trayvon kept hold of Zimmerman's head? Something there does not add up. Even after 5 minutes of thinking about that example it still makes no sense to compare to this, did the ocean rise up or what? Drowning people risk letting water in their mouth if they open it, what was Zimmerman going to put in Trayvons mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 This is painful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 This is painful to watch. Still waiting on proof Zimmerman lied...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 If one person concedes then what's gained by the other party here? Say Benji or SDAusmus just says, "you know what, you're right." Then what? I need there to be a clear goal, a briefcase on a cable hanging above the thread for example, if I'm to enjoy this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Benji is drinking the O'Meara kool-aid and that's fine.. he's entitled to do so just as we are all entitled to look a little deeper into what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Also he probably did not run home, because he did not want that creep Zimmerman to know where he lived. And you know Zimmerman is not a small woman, elderly, handicapped or a child. If he was in danger of being beat to death by an average sized teenager with no formal training. Then he is pathetic and should have chosen a different hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Trayvon had his mouth covered? When Zimmerman was reaching for his gun? and Trayvon kept hold of Zimmerman's head? Something there does not add up. Even after 5 minutes of thinking about that example it still makes no sense to compare to this, did the ocean rise up or what? Drowning people risk letting water in their mouth if they open it, what was Zimmerman going to put in Trayvons mouth? Look up information about drowning. When you're in a life or death situation, it's not always so easy just to scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm still waiting to see evidence of this "brutal attack". Some minor bumps and bruises aren't going to cut it especially when Med examiners and detectives have all laughed these injuries off as being insignificsnt. No wonder he didn't seek medical attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think you can really look deeper into the details of what happened because there's so much speculation. Would you have screamed, would you not have screamed? would you have run? Would he have believed it was a gun and that's why he punched him? Did beat his ass, did he rough him up? Shit man, I don't fucking know, I wasn't there. All I know is that if I ever get accused of something I hope people's first instinct is to believe I'm innocent until someone proves me guilty. And it's also possible that both people were not very good people. It doesn't have to be an either/or deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Benji is drinking the O'Mara kool-aid and that's fine.. he's entitled to do so just as we are all entitled to look a little deeper into what happened. I still think Zimmerman put together an absolute shambles of a neighborhood watch, he should have contacted the other watch members at home and informed them to watch Trayvon. That does not mean his actions were necessarily wrong but if he was a competent watch coordinator he would have had a better system in place from the get go. Look up information about drowning. When you're in a life or death situation, it's not always so easy just to scream. Because you get water in your lungs? World of difference in the environment and situation between drowning and a fight where you are scared for your life a guy has a gun. Treyvon wasn't freezing up, he was actively being the aggressor in the position of dominance (at least when the shot was fired). I'm still waiting to see evidence of this "brutal attack". Some minor bumps and bruises aren't going to cut it especially when Med examiners and detectives have all laughed these injuries off as being insignificsnt. No wonder he didn't seek medical attention. When did I say brutal attack? Or are you saying he was attacked gently? either matter since it was his fearing for his life, which with all the news about head injuries is a legitimate concern. We are not going to convince each over either way, you believe that I believe this. Something obviously convinced you to think that, It didn't convince me but good on you for having good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 My own eyes told me the injuries were minor and the medical examiners only concfirmed that. I'm not saying the injuries have to be significant for self-defense, I'm saying this supposed "attack" did not happen the way Zimmerman would want you to believe. He didn't have his head slammed on the concrete 25 times etc... he has so many inconsistencies in his stories, its hard to believe any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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