Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

UFC Fight Night on ESPN 15: Whittaker vs. Till (7/25/2020) - Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (UFC Fight Island)


Elsalvajeloco

Recommended Posts

On 7/24/2020 at 2:02 AM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Just for shits and giggles, you might as well catch Paul Craig vs. Antigulov because Paul Craig either loses big or wins big.

Told ya. #GiveMeTriangleOrDeath

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Elsalvajeloco said:

Memo: Don't go to the ground with Fabby Werdum.

I was talking to a friend, about how Werdum has the best resume of any fighter that no one really thinks is the greatest fighter in his weight class.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

I was talking to a friend, about how Werdum has the best resume of any fighter that no one really thinks is the greatest fighter in his weight class.  

Before Stipe went on his run, Werdum was up there as either 2a or 2b or right on Fedor's tail for GOAT HW just on strength of schedule. Sadly, a lot of heavyweights' resumes don't age very well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Before Stipe went on his run, Werdum was up there as either 2a or 2b or right on Fedor's tail for GOAT HW just on strength of schedule. Sadly, a lot of heavyweights' resumes don't age very well.

Heavyweight and Lightweight are the two divisions that are hardest to pick a G.O.A.T., for kind of the exact opposite reasons.  Heavyweight, because no one's really good enough to go on a long run, and Lightweight because everyone is so good it's impossible to go on a long run.  

For my money, I still think Cain Velasquez is the best Heavyweight I've ever seen, but his body betrayed him before he could establish himself as the best.  Fedor is still probably #1, and that huge indictment on how little Heavyweight has evolved over the years.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Khabib can keep going for two or three more years, he's is going to have a big case as the best Lightweight ever.

Cain was like the Riddick Bowe of MMA. He looked a like an absolute monster coming up, then he got the belt, and it got sketchy from there. He absolutely had the most potential I've seen in a heavyweight fighter before Ngannou showed up.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, supremebve said:

For my money, I still think Cain Velasquez is the best Heavyweight I've ever seen, but his body betrayed him before he could establish himself as the best.  Fedor is still probably #1, and that huge indictment on how little Heavyweight has evolved over the years.

 

10 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Cain was like the Riddick Bowe of MMA. He looked a like an absolute monster coming up, then he got the belt, and it got sketchy from there. He absolutely had the most potential I've seen in a heavyweight fighter before Ngannou showed up.

Khabib will definitely emerge as #1 LW GOAT. unless Gaethje just destroys him or something.

at HW, Fedor is still clear #1 for the reasons @supremebve said. Cain was legitimately like a bear mauling everybody that crossed his path. But he only has two title defenses, both against people he had previously beaten, which hurts his long term standing pretty significantly.  If Stipe can cross DC off his list again, he's for sure one of the top contenders for GOAT. But even that's shaky due to the division being so depleted. He's for sure a top level all time fighter. But it's such a weird dynamic in a division that is as bare bones as any have ever been. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, twiztor said:

 

Khabib will definitely emerge as #1 LW GOAT. unless Gaethje just destroys him or something.

at HW, Fedor is still clear #1 for the reasons @supremebve said. Cain was legitimately like a bear mauling everybody that crossed his path. But he only has two title defenses, both against people he had previously beaten, which hurts his long term standing pretty significantly.  If Stipe can cross DC off his list again, he's for sure one of the top contenders for GOAT. But even that's shaky due to the division being so depleted. He's for sure a top level all time fighter. But it's such a weird dynamic in a division that is as bare bones as any have ever been. 

That's sorta of my issue with Fedor is it wasn't until he got to Affliction where you can really put him over the top. He beat CroCop in his absolute prime and he beat Minotauro twice with also one NC. I'l even give you Heath Herring and probably Randleman just to be be nice. Without those wins (and the Affliction mini run), boy is it sketchy. Werdum has beaten Tom Erikson, Overeem (the good one, not Valentijn) Aleksandr, Napao 2x, Pezao, Fedor at the end of his prime, Minotauro, Roy Nelson, Cain, and now Gus who was a great LHW at one time.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very few fighters if any have the strange arc on their right hand like Robert Whittaker. That always makes me nervous with him. He throws it like he's Ozone dancing the movie Breakin'.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, Darren Till should have been guns ablazing in round 5. He seemed way too lackadaisical for a fight that was clearly still on the table.

Anyway, congrats to Whittaker because that elbow in round one was brutal. I wouldn't have been shocked if Till finished him on the ground after that. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Man, Darren Till should have been guns ablazing in round 5. He seemed way too lackadaisical for a fight that was clearly still on the table.

Anyway, congrats to Whittaker because that elbow in round one was brutal. I wouldn't have been shocked if Till finished him on the ground after that. 

That’s what drove me nuts with the fifth round too. Even with seeing some fighters tweeting that it was 2-2 going into the fifth I felt like Till needed to show more urgency, and throw some faster strikes. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked Till's attitude in general going in. Just very chill, and during the fight he was pretty relaxed. But yeah, needed to turn it up in the end. Good fight though. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I liked Till's attitude in general going in. Just very chill, and during the fight he was pretty relaxed. But yeah, needed to turn it up in the end. Good fight though. 

He had this sorta Winky Wright thing going on where it seemed like he just wanted to catch Whittaker at the end of his punches instead of driving through the target. If that's the case, you might as well throw punches in bunches. I mean that's how Winky made that style work.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That's sorta of my issue with Fedor is it wasn't until he got to Affliction where you can really put him over the top. He beat CroCop in his absolute prime and he beat Minotauro twice with also one NC. I'l even give you Heath Herring and probably Randleman just to be be nice. Without those wins (and the Affliction mini run), boy is it sketchy. Werdum has beaten Tom Erikson, Overeem (the good one, not Valentijn) Aleksandr, Napao 2x, Pezao, Fedor at the end of his prime, Minotauro, Roy Nelson, Cain, and now Gus who was a great LHW at one time.

completely agree with Fedor being the GOAT is problematic due to both lack of competition early and all of the losses later. But i still don't see a better candidate.

Werdum balances his wins with losses to Stipe, the good Overeem (x2), Arlovski, JDS, Big Nog, Kharitonov, Volkov, and most recently Aleksei Oleinik. He's easily more good than bad, but ultimately inconsistent. Maybe he just peaked at a different time, but it's still hard to definitively state he'd be the greatest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, twiztor said:

completely agree with Fedor being the GOAT is problematic due to both lack of competition early and all of the losses later. But i still don't see a better candidate.

Werdum balances his wins with losses to Stipe, the good Overeem (x2), Arlovski, JDS, Big Nog, Kharitonov, Volkov, and most recently Aleksei Oleinik. He's easily more good than bad, but ultimately inconsistent. Maybe he just peaked at a different time, but it's still hard to definitively state he'd be the greatest. 

I think Werdum was very consistent when he finally started clicking with Rafael Cordeiro. He looked like a whole different fighter. When a guy is getting up their in age even if it's heavyweight, I don't expect his second birth to last forever. He went on a very good run then it was someone else's turn. 

That's the one advantage Fedor kinda had. He didn't come into the sport late and basically took very little punishment early in his career. Fabricio started at 25 but really didn't go full time until 2006/2007 at almost 30 whereas Fedor was 23 when he was in RINGS. If you have guys go on these long Olympic bids before coming in or come in after years spent in submission grappling or kickboxing, it's going to be hard for them to put together resumes comparative to heavyweights we've seen in boxing (for example, Wladimir Klitschko was a high level and then eventually elite boxer from 98/99 ish post Olympic gold medal in Atlanta until 2017). Hell, they have trouble putting together resumes comparative to their MMA contemporaries from the lower weight classes. It seems that we're just lucky to get five or six good years out of someone before it starts crumbling down.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...