AEW Dynamite - 7/22/2020

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I would say put Taz in the prime time booth, but then Taz will never be better than his original Smackdown run. Like Heenan, and Dusty, he’s just one of the best B-Show commentators around.  

[Technico Support]

21 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

  Anyway, maybe the conversation oughta move towards his employer.  If it's such a problem then why isn't Khan, who clearly is a sharp guy with an attention to detail (mostly), not having this conversation with Ross?  He's the man in charge, let him share the blame.  Give him the marjority of the blame. 

That's a good point and you're absolutely right.  At the same time, it does seem like Khan has talked to Ross about some things.  His verbiage about women has changed.  He did some JR Madlibs shit where he absolutely swapped the word "powerful" for "big" when discussing the more zaftig women on the roster, even  when the wording didn't work in some instances   "That moonsault is a tough move to pull off for such a b..err....POWERFUL woman!"

Edited July 27, 2020 by Technico Support

[Godfrey]

I still remember when JR would drop problematic terms on the first few shows and you knew he was getting an earful. He’s improved considerably over the first year, I think we should give him some credit for getting with the times, it’s a lot more than other white dudes his age are doing. And if Tony represents the lapsed fan and Ex the new indie fan, then JR represents us and we all have to deal with that.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Godfrey

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Hey, Coach Tony, look at this dude...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/hygn0t/this_is_flawless_capoeira/

[Jiji]

That's cool. They also have yet to debut that British boxer, Anthony Ogogo. But neither are Eddie Kingston. 

I'm looking forward to the return of Pac. 

And with that thought, I want Pac and King cutting promos on each other. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jiji

[Curt McGirt]

17 hours ago, Octopus said:

In that case he needs to go full on party animal. Unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt, no undershirt. It’ll instantly make him slicker.

[odessasteps]

It is so weird to watch 82 Mid Atlantic and see Hump wearing a dress shirt and tie. 

[BEN!]

Ross is officially AEW's 'Senior Advisor' or something of that nature.  AEW's supposed to be the "real sports" wrestling promotion but you've got some of the EVPs that want to ignore the rules so they can get their shit in.  If the refs don't want to be criticized on the air then they should quit looking like morons on the air.  If the wrestlers don't like being criticized on the air then they should quit blowing the old man off and explain to him why they're doing the things he's criticizing.  Ross' biggest problem is he's too cognizant of his critics and he's too in his own head on the air.  If the yak big, the yak big.  Suckas gots to know.

Also, it's fun how people go on about diversity but then when the ratings come up, it's all about the core demos.

[Casey]

He’s an advisor. If he wanted his suggestions to actually materialize, he should have taken the EVP spot he was originally offered. As it is, they’ll listen And implement what they feel is necessary, but it’s ultimately their product and Khan’s. Which is evident by how tag ropes aren’t a thing in AEW now, despite how JR wants them around so “heels have rules to break”. As if there aren’t other things heels can do to get heel heat in a tag match (seriously who’s going to boo someone because they aren’t holding a rope? ).

This old school shit needs to go. If you want that in your wrestling, then the network has old footage, so does YouTube and shit. This ain’t that.

[AxB]

WCW never had tag ropes, did they?

Besides, they aren't there so you can boo the heels for not holding them. They're there so you can boo the heels for choking the one opponent with them, while their babyface partner distracts the ref  to make it easier for the heels to get away with (like an idiot, when it's plainly clear that standing in the ring arguing with the ref is counter productive to getting him to turn around and see what's happening).

[Casey]

It boggles the mind why JR would think his opinion on tag team wrestling would have any sway in a company where two of the people in management positions (and are also co-founders) are the goddamn Young Bucks. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, Casey said:

It boggles the mind why JR would think his opinion on tag team wrestling would have any sway in a company where two of the people in management positions (and are also co-founders) are the goddamn Young Bucks. 

Counterpoint: He spent decades dealing with the most bullish person in wrestling history. It's completely reflexive by now for him to be oppositional and combative.

[Curt McGirt]

3 hours ago, AxB said:

WCW never had tag ropes, did they?

I remember Regal using them so yeah. 

2 hours ago, Casey said:

It boggles the mind why JR would think his opinion on tag team wrestling would have any sway in a company where two of the people in management positions (and are also co-founders) are the goddamn Young Bucks. 

Yeah they are literally the offspring of Pro Wrestling Guerrilla in a lot of ways. That shit is not the Universal Wrestling Federation. 

[The Green Meanie]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

I remember Regal using them so yeah.

WCW didn't use tag ropes.

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Yeah they are literally the offspring of Pro Wrestling Guerrilla in a lot of ways. That shit is not the Universal Wrestling Federation. 

If JR wants to have input over anything in AEW, and have it not fall on deaf ears, then he should be putting input into stuff like Cody’s matches or main event stories involving Moxley or Jericho. That’s where I would trust him the most.

Where I don’t... well, trust isn’t the right word, but where I think his input isn’t needed, is the tag team scene or how to make “stars” out of people. His whole thing about Jungle Boy not being a marketable name or whatever is dumb as shit when you stop to consider that, arguably, the two top guys when he was at his peak as a behind the scenes figure were named the goddamn Rock and Stone Cold, it kind of makes me believe that a name maybe isn’t everything.

Every week, I see less and less value to having JR as a member of the team. Especially if he’s going to go and whine on his podcast when the talent doesn’t listen to him. Even more so when it’s his bosses not listening - that’s unprofessional as fuck, and Tony Khan and the EVPs are giving him way too much leeway. He’d never do that if he was still in the WWE, that’s for sure. Because he knows there would be consequences. And that’s the fault of Khan and company allowing this to continue.

Same goes for Jericho if he bitches on his podcast or those Saturday night YouTube streams (not sure if he has/does, just saying).

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

He’d never do that if he was still in the WWE, that’s for sure. Because he knows there would be consequences.

I dunno about that considering I think what has emboldened him the most is the fact he already has felt the wrath of the most powerful company in the industry on multiple occasions and lived to tell about it. Not only tell about it but become the voice for the OTHER big company in North American pro wrestling and one that's not going to micromanage him to death. This motherfucker is failing upwards at worst.

Also, I'm LMAO because I'm watching the Raw at the Skydome (w/ a poorly lit ring and also extremely poorly mic'd ring as it sounds like all the guys are wrestling inside of tupperware) a couple weeks after Rumble 97. Since I want to reiterate this point before Dolfan closes this thread in the matter of about 36 hours, I would like to again say Vince's lack of foresight and uh..not being in touch with reality has had such a big influence on Jim Ross. During the Owen & Davey vs. Furnas & LaFon match that had to be match #5457 of the series, it's JR who is in the Excalibur role and Vince is AEW Jim Ross. I know he's doing it to get over his boy Furnas, but Jim Ross is going on about F&L's success in All Japan and specifically mentioned them winning the All-Asia tag team titles. Let me tell who in February 1997 did not give a single solitary shit about the lower ranked set of tag titles in All Japan: One Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Holy shit. He didn't even try to feign interest at all. He (he being Vince) just moved on to something else entirely. Vince instead tried to get over that Phil LaFon had just moved from France to Canada and was an authentic native French person. Just something completely out of the blue that had no bearing on any storyline or angle.

Sidenote: You can tell this is 1997 because JR and Vince are extremely volatile (especially JR) and derisive in going after WCW. Going hard to the point where Vince even fucks up his own self-aggrandizement. All night they're going on and on about this being the biggest audience in Monday night history (over 25,000 at the Skydome, which I'm very suspicious of because the ring and basically the entire venue is lit to look house show-ish). Vince messes up and says something along the lines of, "The biggest audience in the history of the WWF on Monday night..." and slowly realizes that he didn't add enough superlatives and shouldn't have qualified it with the WWF part. He has this super awkward pause before trying to play it off and go into something else. 

Another clue WCW was in dat ass in by February 97 was them going after WCW and also Hogan, with them berating the Adventures of Robin Hood stunt WCW pulled 2-3 weeks prior. I'm about over halfway through the show and before the HBK interview, which would be ultimately interrupted by Bret, JR is fucking losing it. That made realize a few things. First off, they didn't even have the balls to mention the rival company by name. If you didn't know better and didn't watch WCW, you would think Jim Ross specifically was talking about this fictional company that didn't exist. Second, this is the moment I miss the homely (in the Southern comfort sense), down to earth commentator in Mid-South/Crockett/WCW/SMW and not quasi shoot/microaggression every minute Jim Ross that we came to know in WWF/E. It's almost unbearable. You got the "we're not going to promise anything and not deliver" sneak diss in light of the Hogan/Giant continuation during ad breaks of the new Robin Hood show (which WCW likely did in an act of corporate synergy), but you also have Jim Ross during Shawn's entrance going on about how Shawn isn't in his mid 40s and balding (boy is that ever fucking LOL). Then, this fucker is talking about how Shawn has his best years ahead of him (for his first run, try a year and some change chief). We get then the grandstanding coup de grace of him almost betting his life savings, his car, and his house by saying that Shawn Michaels always delivers on his promises and that he will INDEED be wrestling on Thursday Raw Thursday to defend his belt in a rematch from the Rumble card against Sid. He was 120% certain this was going to go down.

Guess what, folks? He didn't. Shawn Michaels lost his smile.

ROFL.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[Technico Support]

4 hours ago, Casey said:

Where I don’t... well, trust isn’t the right word, but where I think his input isn’t needed, is the tag team scene or how to make “stars” out of people. His whole thing about Jungle Boy not being a marketable name or whatever is dumb as shit when you stop to consider that, arguably, the two top guys when he was at his peak as a behind the scenes figure were named the goddamn Rock and Stone Cold, it kind of makes me believe that a name maybe isn’t everything.

 

You lie.  Jungle Boy is a name change and 30 more pounds of muscle mass away from being the biggest star in the biz.

[Casey]

Tarzan Perry?

[Craig H]

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

You lie.  Jungle Boy is a name change and 30 more pounds of muscle mass away from being the biggest star in the biz.

I know you're joking, but if he was able to put on 30 more lbs. of muscle then he'd undeniably be the next big thing in wrestling. Unfortunately, guys like Jack or even Darby might not ever be meant to have more bulk. CM Punk comes to mind when he tried to bulk up to WWE size by putting on more muscle when he was in OVW. He wound up looking bloated and fat. Jack is even shorter than Punk so he may adapt worse to putting on size.

[A_K]

I mean this thread is veering all over the place at the moment but 'Stone Cold' was a pretty cool nickname in that its sort of abstract and -- in the 90s at least -- you could kind of believe some brooding, no-fucks-given bad-ass in a Texan dive bar being given that name by other patrons. It was pretty down to earth and fitting of the persona. 'The Rock' .. well again, it was a play on an actual first name of Rocky (which he was introduced initially as?) so again, sort of conventional nickname. You could imagine a boxer being given it, for example. Jungle Boy? Well, I know there's the Tarzan quip above but honestly it doesn't feel too far off it .. it kind of conjures those more cartoon/comic book sentiments which if that's the intention then fine, but it doesn't feel v. assertive for a big star and may have a ceiling to it. Just losing the "boy" part feels like it'd go a long way while keeping the jungle element ..

Edited July 28, 2020 by A_K

[LoneWolf&Subs]

The only thing other than his size that might hold him back, is his baby face. But still he’s really skilled for somebody who could’ve been a throwaway talent that had ties to a more famous person, like Kris Kristofferson’s son, or Jennifer Hudson’s husband.

Edited July 28, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[AxB]

1 hour ago, A_K said:

You could imagine a boxer being given it, for example. Jungle Boy? Well, I know there's the Tarzan quip above but honestly it doesn't feel too far off it .. it kind of conjures those more cartoon/comic book sentiments which if that's the intention then fine, but it doesn't feel v. assertive for a big star and may have a ceiling to it. Just losing the "boy" part feels like it'd go a long way while keeping the jungle element ..

Plenty of boxers have had Boy, Kid or even Baby as part of their nicknames. And kept using the youthful name well into their late 30s and beyond, like The Golden Boy Oscar de la Hoya.

Can you imagine if in 89, Ric Flair had gone on TV and pronounced that from thereon he was to be known as The Nature Man? I don't see that getting over.

[A_K]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

Plenty of boxers have had Boy, Kid or even Baby as part of their nicknames. And kept using the youthful name well into their late 30s and beyond, like The Golden Boy Oscar de la Hoya.

Can you imagine if in 89, Ric Flair had gone on TV and pronounced that from thereon he was to be known as The Nature Man? I don't see that getting over.

Yes, fair point! Although "Nature boy" has an inherrent meaning to it (everything comes naturally - women, riches, talent etc. ... "golden boy" similarly) that feels sort of more fitting to being an elevated star than a "Jungle boy" who similarly formed a tag team referred to as "A boy and his dinosaur". So perhaps it is the paired meaning that I find most childlike.