AEW Dynamite - 7/22/2020

[twiztor]

the only time Excalibur's shtick bothered me was when "deathmatch legend Luther" debuted and X made it seem like a huge revelation. Luther sucks.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I don’t know if you guys notice this but Excalibur is clearly trying to goad JR into getting cranky. It’s why when he called the stretch plum he paused to let it sink into the old man’s mind, and then he let loose the Kawada facts to drive it home.

[Elsalvajeloco]

13 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I don’t know if you guys notice this but Excalibur is clearly trying to goad JR into getting cranky. It’s why when he called the stretch plum he paused to let it sink into the old man’s mind, and then he let loose the Kawada facts to drive it home.

"It's that Kings Road style created by the four pillars he is known for..."

"....."

[A_K]

3 hours ago, Casey said:

I understand that JR supposedly is an ear/eye catcher to these fabled casual fans (pssst they don't exist)

They absolutely most certainly exist. I’d be classed as one myself. Lawler/Ross were a hugely memorable part of the zenith of the industry; you only need to casually look at social media comments whenever historic 90s/00s throwback videos are posted to see how many fans refer to their commentary as being fundamental to the period. He may not be as effective now but his voice is synonymous with the industry at its most popular. For a new entrant into the industry that is immensely valuable — more valuable at the moment, I think, than the content of the commentary itself. As they build their own renown over the months/years they’ll cultivate their own stars and memories but for now tapping into nostalgia while also having new & refreshing in-ring personalities has a lot of merit.

[Technico Support]

10 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

The only thing about Excaliber that I don't like is he'll react to someone like they're this huge name and we all should know who it is. The biggest example was him all OMG IT'S LUTHER and JR was all "who?". 

 

10 hours ago, Casey said:

One of those people involved was doing their job, though. The other was being a crotchety old man.

Absolutely consistent with Ross becoming this generation's Ed Whalen. 

[Jiji]

Yeah, he's getting himself over at the expense of the people in the ring. That's the opposite of his job. There are moments when he's flowing with Excalibur and Tony, enjoying the product and it is really nice but man does he find something obscure to bitch about in almost every match now. Dude, you're there to draw back casuals. They don't fucking care about tag ropes, tag teams doing double team moves, and pin mechanics. He will still try to get promising young talent over, so it's not just Hager and Dustin that he hypes up, thankfully. But he's a real mixed bag and I am looking forward to his moving to a pure backstage or interview role or going back to WWE for a retirement tour or something. I think it's helpful that he can provide an old school voice in the room that will speak up on things he's concerned about. I'm also glad that TK and the EVPs don't listen to everything he says. 

I still would pay good money to hear Super Dragon react to Jim Ross trying to show up Excalibur or hear Excalibur open up on it either after Jim leaves or he leaves (less likely). I think he'd give a nuanced answer about how knowledgeable JR is about certain things and then rip on him for being a cranky fuck. 

[John from Cincinnati]

10 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

How do we know it's not a case of both of them doing their job?

Because saying "Who?" is my job!

2 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I don’t know if you guys notice this but Excalibur is clearly trying to goad JR into getting cranky. It’s why when he called the stretch plum he paused to let it sink into the old man’s mind, and then he let loose the Kawada facts to drive it home.

If that's true, I need him to go ALL IN putting over the psychology and tactical brilliance of Ortiz's back rake and subsequent pose. I think that might break JR.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Andy in Kansas

[HarryArchieGus]

This JR-DVDVR beefing has been going with the exact same points since near the beginning of the promotion.  There are certainly some valid points.  There's also just plain personal hate.  I don't find it so hard to get over with a sense of humor, but I get why some do.  I pretty much stopped watching ROH DVDs at the height of the promotion because of Sapolsky's  commentary.  I can say the same about a lot of promotions.  Anyway, maybe the conversation oughta move towards his employer.  If it's such a problem then why isn't Khan, who clearly is a sharp guy with an attention to detail (mostly), not having this conversation with Ross?  He's the man in charge, let him share the blame.  Give him the marjority of the blame.  What is he scared to lose JR?  I can't imagine, with all that Jim went thru at Titan Sprots, that he wouldn't be receptive to a conversation about the tonal direction of his commentary from his generous employer.

12 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

The only thing about Excaliber that I don't like is he'll react to someone like they're this huge name and we all should know who it is. The biggest example was him all OMG IT'S LUTHER and JR was all "who?". 

I agree, but that kind of misstep is not exclusive to debuting wrestlers,  He has a tendency to overhype and sound hokey.  That said, he's gotten a lot better and will continue to do so.  I'm aware he has many years of experience with PWG, but national TV is a whole other thing.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[John from Cincinnati]

2 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

This JR-DVDVR beefing has been going with the exact same points since near the beginning of the promotion.  There are certainly some valid points.  There's also just plain personal hate.  I don't find it so hard to get over with a sense of humor, but I get why some do.  I pretty much stopped watching ROH DVDs at the height of the promotion because of Sapolsky's  commentary.  I can say the same about a lot of promotions.  Anyway, maybe the conversation oughta move towards his employer.  If it's such a problem then why isn't Khan, who clearly is a sharp guy with an attention detail (mostly) not having this conversation with Ross?  He's the man in charge, let him share the blame.  Give him the marjority of the blame.  What is he scared to lose JR?  I can't imagine, with all that he went thru at Titan Sprots, that he wouldn't be receptive to a conversation about the tonal direction of his commentary from his generous employer.

a) This conversation dating back to the beginning suggests no improvement on JR's part. And if the rants on his podcast are any indication, he has no interest in taking any criticism seriously. 

b) I like to think I have a sense of humour about this, in that I find clumsy, cranky JR-isms to be hilarious in the Botchamania and WrestleCrap vein

c) I do blame Tony.

[Ramo2653]

8 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You cannot be the same people who complain about Bob Costas or Al Michaels or Greg Gumbel every four years giving the rules for your favorite sports (well known or otherwise) during the Olympic games, and then complain about a commentator acting like he knows everyone.

As someone who plays and watches volleyball, every single indoor game on ESPN starts with people explaining the rules with a caveat that its rally scorning instead of side out scoring like it hasn't been that way for almost 20 years now.

[Dewar]

Volleyball also doesn't get a ton of mainstream television coverage. Going over the rules for the casual viewer is a good idea. 

JR should not be pointing out whenever someone fucks up a tag, or when the refs are made to look like idiots on a live telecast. Sounds like something that whoever is agenting the matches should go over with the participants after the match. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Dewar
Typo

[odessasteps]

Imagine if he pointed out those problems when he called matches for the Cowboy. 

(Admittedly, those little mistakes would not have happened while Watts micromanaged the show, but stil...) 

Edited July 26, 2020 by odessasteps

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, Dewar said:

Volleyball also doesn't get a ton of mainstream television coverage. Going over the rules for the casual viewer is a good idea. 

However, it's not like it hasn't been on television in various capacities ever before. Moreover, it's a sport still played in physical education classes across America. You can get a general idea of what's going on within 10-15 minutes of watching it.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[AxB]

13 hours ago, DangerMark said:

You're an absolute degenerate wrestling nerd though. And I mean that in a good way. 

My nerd card got taken away. I gained too much muscle mass, I'm a jock now.

[BobbyWhioux]

13 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I don’t know if you guys notice this but Excalibur is clearly trying to goad JR into getting cranky. It’s why when he called the stretch plum he paused to let it sink into the old man’s mind, and then he let loose the Kawada facts to drive it home.

the best JR baiting segment still goes to Tony Schiavone a couple months back when he intimated during a Best Friends match that Orange Cassidy ranks among the best managers of all time and started name dropping Albano and Heenan as JR groaned.

But then, Schiavone being back in wrestling and actually having fun with it is by far my favorite part of the AEW booth.

[John from Cincinnati]

59 minutes ago, AxB said:

My nerd card got taken away. I gained too much muscle mass, I'm a jock now.

 What if we don’t count your forearms? 

[Octopus]

Likeable or not, I find the commentary team interesting for what they individually represent. Tony Schiavone we can all recognize as the lapsed fan, happy to be back. Jim Ross is the curmudgeon old uncle at Thanksgiving that you’ll roll your eyes at but will have a funny story about your dad as a kid. Voice of the attitude area, disciple of Watts, been in the game a long time. Seems set in his ways but can surprise you. Some people are just happy to hear and remember his voice. I can momentarily cringe at somethings he says, but just his presence at times can bring me joy.

While JR and Tony Schiavone represent yesterday and the fans that left, Excalibur is from the other world. The big part of AEW that isn’t Moxley, Jericho, and the Rhodes. Excalibur is the younger smart fan that knows the Indy scene and respects the traditions that reached outside of WWE/WCW (names of moves and even keeping his masked identity). He still has a lot to learn about tv commentary, but he has two legends right next to him. Listening to him on either Jericho or AEW’s podcast he mentioned learning a lot from both of them about cutting to commercial and things of that nature. I do feel he brings a needed presence to the team and down the line when both or one of JR and Tony retire, the company will be in good hands.

I feel that occasionally it doesn’t click, but more times than not it’s just right for me. JR can be annoying with a few of his calls, but I enjoy things like saying Jungle Jack Perry. His call for a serious old school Cody vs Dustin was phenomenal. Excalibur’s use of Tope Suicida leading to Tony’s excitement was one of my favorite little moments from the early shows. The lapsed fan marking out over what he didn’t know. Also, I find it adorable that they’ll subtly tease each other. You can tell they respect each other and are all happy with where they are. 

On 7/25/2020 at 12:11 PM, BobbyWhioux said:

it is also perhaps a bit of his own fault for not treating himself particularly seriously.  His twitter handle is the rather self-effacing ShutUpExcalibur.  He lets other wrestlers rip on him without retort.  They treat him like "a goof in a mask for no reason" and he doesn't challenge that perception, and doesn't really ever reference that he "used to lace 'em up" outside of that one moment early on with Brandi.  Monsoon was an old man decades removed from competition and he'd put current guys over by reacting to their best moves with "I'm glad I retired" but he never let people push him around or take the piss too far out of him without at least responding with "I'm gonna have you taken outta here in a minute" or something.

I get what you’re saying about commanding respect and he can roll with things. It doesn’t disprove anything you’re saying, but I’d like to note he possibly beat up Jimmy Havoc for disrespecting his mask. Reading what you said reminded me about that. 

———

Also, I’d add I that I personally like the mask. But if you’re wearing a mask you really have to up the rest of your outfit. Give that man a killer suit and tie. Have him look stunning and in the world of wrestling it won’t look out of place. Mask and polo won’t cut it. 

Although I don’t agree with the mask hate, I do sympathize. It’s not that far off from me still shaking my head at Cody’s neck tattoo. 

[Jiji]

Awesome post. Tony Schiavone is the slickest motherfucker when throwing to commercial or doing a sponsor read or company message. Like too slick, like he's in on the joke how slick he is and how much bullshit he's peddling. That cracks me up every time. Flippant pitch man. 

Excalibur, as much as I like him, is not slick at all and struggles with it. He is generally improving though it's not always a line of ever improving pointing up, as is the case with most things. 

The tope suicida stuff is somewhat like Dusty and company busting Mike Tenay over dragon screw leg whip though less over the top. I feel like Dusty was legitimately having a laugh though, whereas JR and Tony are clearly just ribbing Excalibur. He obviously A) values his job B) respects them enough to not say anything OR C) doesn't care. But in the past during those silly interview series he'd do with Highspots or on PWG commentary, he hardly suffered fools. He had some awkward interactions with Havoc on one of those interviews with Dan Barry in 2018. Havoc was drunk, Excalibur kind of called on him to stop bitching about stuff and talking about his girlfriend and they had to stop recording because Havoc had a bit of a tantrum, lol. I imagine you have to be like that when working with the notoriously hard headed, no nonsense Super Dragon for so long (and being friends with somebody like that). I still find it surreal that brother that had been operating and calling matches for PWG is a nationally televised wrestling  commentator. Bless Tony Khan's wrestling dork self. 

Excalibur is only wearing the polo because it's hot as balls Jacksonville in the summer. He was wearing a company sport coat and tie previously. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jiji
Excalibur is indeed not a company but a commentator.

[Octopus]

17 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Excalibur is only wearing the polo because it's hot as balls Jacksonville in the summer. He was wearing a company sport coat and tie previously. 

In that case he needs to go full on party animal. Unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt, no undershirt. It’ll instantly make him slicker.

[odessasteps]

2 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

the best JR baiting segment still goes to Tony Schiavone a couple months back when he intimated during a Best Friends match that Orange Cassidy ranks among the best managers of all time and started name dropping Albano and Heenan as JR groaned.

But then, Schiavone being back in wrestling and actually having fun with it is by far my favorite part of the AEW booth.

Maybe he was groaning about callng Albano An an all-time great. 

[Octopus]

1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

Maybe he was groaning about callng Albano An an all-time great. 

Or the noise of gas involuntarily leaving his body. Dude likes his bbq. 

[The Green Meanie]

I think we can all agree in that if/when Jericho retires he needs to head to the booth next.

[Jiji]

Jericho subbing in for Ross would be tremendous. He's still got a few years of regular competition left in him if he wants it before moving to the desk. Not like he can't work the odd match here and there after making the switch to full time colour commentary. The problem is you'd need a third man so there's not an awkward replacement during Fozzy tours (however long those last). Hopefully Tony is in it for the long haul. 

[DangerMark]

5 hours ago, AxB said:

My nerd card got taken away. I gained too much muscle mass, I'm a jock now.

You will be pleased to learn that they can't take the "degenerate wrestling" part of your title away, leaving you a degenerate wrestling jock. 

[AxB]

7 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:

 What if we don’t count your forearms? 

I don't just train forearms, I do full body. It's just plenty of people never train forearms, so mine appear disproportionately big by comparison. Are you trying to goad me into posting a shirtless pic or something?