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UFC 251: Usman vs. Masvidal (7/11/2020) - Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (UFC Fight Island)


Elsalvajeloco

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I do agree with him that a lot of judges are not following the new rules when applicable though. Not just the more liberal use of 10-8 rounds but particularly the priority of scoring criteria. 

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My big takeaway from last night is people really have no clue what a "robbery" is anymore. Sweet Pea vs Chavez was a robbery, Pac vs Jeff Horn was a robbery, Roy Jones in Korea was a robbery. 

Now, "guy I wanted to win loses a close fight" is considered a robbery. 

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The biggest problem I see with the 10-point must system is that the judges are often timid about scoring legit 10-8s, 10-10s, or even 10-7s where they would be appropriate. If there are marginal 10-9s, then there should be marginal 10-8s as well. 

Also, John McCarthy is wrong. Round 3 was clearly Volkanvoski's round. That was not a swing round.

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My big takeaway from last night is people really have no clue what a "robbery" is anymore. Sweet Pea vs Chavez was a robbery, Pac vs Jeff Horn was a robbery, Roy Jones in Korea was a robbery. 

Now, "guy I wanted to win loses a close fight" is considered a robbery. 

I agree. Based on the current scoring system, I had it for Volkanovski or possibly even a draw. That fight was not a robbery. It felt like none of those fights that was close and fairly competitive, but neither guy got the emphatic, dominant win. 

My other problem with McCarthy's comments is that I think Round 3 for Holloway/Volkanovski II was very clearly a Volkanovski round and not a swing round.

Machida vs. Shogun was a legit robbery. 

Edited by TheVileOne
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Lyoto Machida was one of my favorite fighters then, and I'm still not sure how he got the decision. Shogun definitely rectified that in the second fight. Boy, did he ever.

I'm not sure if you guys remember watching Bellator late in the MTV2 era and early on in the Spike days, but they had so many close, close fights that usually went to the guy (if you were watching at home) you would have losing that fight. It was a coin flip fight on every card (usually it was either a Joe Warren fight or they were in a jurisdiction that didn't get many major MMA fights cards). Then, you run up on a Rampage vs. King Mo I where it's a clear cut robbery.

I am not saying that every round has to be decisive for someone to win a fight cause that's impossible. However, as fans, a lot of people get caught up in the emotion on the real time viewing. There are plenty of times where you should be like, "Hey, maybe I missed something and need to rewatch it." If you come up with the same score the second time around, then hey, maybe you have a legit case. I'm just not ready to go nuclear after every decision I don't particularly agree with anymore.

 

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Fuck referee Leon Roberts for not stopping Petr Yan vs. Jose Aldo in the fifth round sooner. Early stoppages are frustrating but give me them over late ones as that damage can't be undone. Protect. The. Fighter.

Edited by The Natural
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Off topic and random: if they ever remake Aliens into another film or even a miniseries, they have to get Jessica Andrade to play Private Vasquez. At least they wouldn't have to put brown face makeup on some white woman this time.

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For anyone who still thinks Holloway/Volkanovski was a robbery. Close fight? Yes. But not a robbery.

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IMHO Round 4 was more of a swing round than Round 3. No matter what, i think it was a 3-2 fight and not a clear 4-1 or 3-2 for Holloway. Watching it live, I thought Round 4 could've been a 10-10.

There's a better argument for Penn vs. Edgar I being a robbery, especially that schmuck Doug Crosby scoring it 50-45 for Edgar and then trolling fans about it on the Underground.

Edited by TheVileOne
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FWIW the Athletic (specifically Mike Coppinger) is saying this show did 1.3 million buys which probably would have been the equivalent of between 1.5 and 2 million buys in the cable system days. 

 

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Just now, Elsalvajeloco said:

FWIW the Athletic (specifically Mike Coppinger) is saying this show did 1.3 million buys which probably would have been the equivalent of between 1.5 and 2 million buys in the cable system days. 

 

So are you ready to admit that Jorge Masvidal is a draw now?

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Just now, Jiji said:

That is fucking crazy. What's causin' all this? Masvidal? Fight Island?

I'm going with a lot Masvidal, some Fight Island, some of the card being stacked to all hell, and some of the celebrity push. Also, sports hasn't started back up and nothing besides The Basketball Tournament was going on Saturday.

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4 minutes ago, Jiji said:

That is fucking crazy. What's causin' all this? Masvidal? Fight Island?

Switching it to Masvidal at the last minute definitely got the attention of the casuals because Masvidal has become a casual darling since putting Askren to sleep. He had The Rock coming out to endorse him for this fight. 

The fight likely would've done well without Masvidal with 2-3 title fights but putting Masvidal on got the attention of more mainstream media, celebrities, and the casual fans.

Edited by TheVileOne
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Do deep PPVs traditionally do better than PPVs with similar quality main events and weaker fights packaged with it on the main card? In other words, do casual fight fans care if matches 3-5 are deep when thinking about ordering PPVs?

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32 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Do deep PPVs traditionally do better than PPVs with similar quality main events and weaker fights packaged with it on the main card? In other words, do casual fight fans care if matches 3-5 are deep when thinking about ordering PPVs?

I believe it depends on how well the cards hold together and if the main event is truly a real main event. In the case of UFC 246, a main event with a mega star instantly cancels out a rather weak main card. That's a hold over from the big boxing PPV era. You can have two bus drivers and some mimes fight on the undercard if you have a big name on top. I believe at the end of the Fox era (and you can say the beginning of the ESPN+ era but I argue that's cause of the new system discouraging customers), many of the "stacked" cards rarely disappointed in terms of fight quality, but the buyrates were often very disappointing. With no big name, it didn't have any crossover appeal. UFC 218 is a great example of this, which is why it was a boon for the UFC to have the card (minus the Cejudo/Pettis fight which was somewhat lackluster) replayed on Fox and it did a good rating. So a lot of it is timing. That was when people were down on UFC when it was clear they were having problems with Conor, and Ronda was certainly gone from the UFC and likely never coming back. Now? It's the only sport going on, and they're putting a ton of muscle behind it. It also helps most of the cards are really good even if the names aren't really big names.

Top Rank is having the inverse amount of success. Like I said, timing is everything. They weren't exactly setting the world on fire pre COVID-19. They only have access to so many of their stars/credible fights right now, and it's not like a guy like Terence Crawford was fighting that frequently anyway. Their last card averaged 299k in primetime. Anytime they don't come after a UFC card, it dies a horrible death in the ratings. There are only so many people that will watch mediocre to okay boxing. UFC/MMA fans are conditioned to this shit by now so they will like above average MMA if it's the only thing on television. Moreover, besides UFC 251 where I think not having DC and Rogan commentary on a big show contributed to the lack of atmosphere even though Bisping did a good job, it doesn't feel like no crowd hurts the show. It isn't the same, but it feels more like business as usual than any other sport.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I think I actually may prefer no crowds to crowds for fighting and I'm all about the energy of the fans in every other sport & wrestling. It seems so intense without the fans. You can really hear each shot land, how heavy the fighters are breathing, what they're saying, the corners. It's such a unique, interesting thing. I fall asleep trying to watch soccer without fans and the fake crowd sounds are dreadful. I mean, if you've got a rabid set of fans for a big fight, then absolutely give me the fans... but for just about everything else, I am digging this a lot.

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44 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I think I actually may prefer no crowds to crowds for fighting and I'm all about the energy of the fans in every other sport & wrestling. It seems so intense without the fans. You can really hear each shot land, how heavy the fighters are breathing, what they're saying, the corners. It's such a unique, interesting thing. I fall asleep trying to watch soccer without fans and the fake crowd sounds are dreadful. I mean, if you've got a rabid set of fans for a big fight, then absolutely give me the fans... but for just about everything else, I am digging this a lot.

UFC does work OK without live fans. At the very least you don't have a bunch of drunken idiots booing anymore when a fight goes to the mat.

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10 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

UFC does work OK without live fans. At the very least you don't have a bunch of drunken idiots booing anymore when a fight goes to the mat.

Man, if you thought the main event was boring on Saturday....there would have been a near riot if it was at T-Mobile Arena like it usually is for IFW.

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  • jaedmc unpinned this topic

I'm not sure how much it figured into the 1.3 million buys, but since Meltzer mentioned it on his show this week, UFC did have official bars and establishments showing UFC 251 over the weekend. So he was wrong that no bars were showing it. Some bars around the country definitely were. Not sure if that goes into that 900,000 number or the 400,000 extra.

Now, I imagine some people who would normally go out to watch a UFC could've stayed in to order it, but some places, even in LA, were showing it on Saturday night. The rub was they had it in their outdoor area only. I went to one. I know for sure Buffalo Wild Wings in Sherman Oaks and some other places I sometimes go to in order to watch fights still ordered the event. So if that's in LA right before another statewide shutdown, I imagine other states were still doing the official ordering and showing it as well. BW3 wasn't even charging cover with just outside seating. So that tells me the bars expected to break even or close to with, even with just outside seating, to justify paying the crazy amount or whatever it is for a bar to show a UFC PPV. 

That said don't know what it was like for UFC 249 and 250. As I recall, 249 was before a lot of areas started opening back up. There could've been more places showing UFC 250, but I didn't check for that event.

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