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AEW Fyter Fest II - 7/1 & 7/8/2020


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Posted (edited)

I mean shows with real audiences shouldn't be a thing until a vaccination is abundantly available (I'd like to say mandatory but, you know...) and that will likely be late spring/early summer 2021, at least that was the original time frame put forth by people who would know. AEW should go at a slower than normal pace but they're going to have to move stuff along eventually. I really hope they don't try to run with actual crowds beyond what they're doing while the pandemic is getting worse for you folks in the States. 

I laughed at the TK tweet not because of what he said (he said nothing factually incorrect) but because he felt the need to basically say "we're still winning even though it may not look like it." It comes off as desperate imo. It is pretty crazy how few younger people watch cable news in contrast with boomers. Kids these days getting influenced by the trash on TV, amiright?

Edited by Oyaji
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I stopped paying attention to Tony’s hype a year ago. Brandi was real big on hyperbole with the women’s division in the beginning as well. It’s not the end of the world, they are promoters, and they are excited about their product. But there’s no point listening to them talk about the product when you can listen to more independent voices instead. 
 

Loved the show last night. Just want to add big props to Santana and Ortiz who were freaking hilarious. Especially when orange was trying to get a rope break towards the beginning. *whispers* “Over here! Over here!” “You didn’t see nothing.”

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I do think Tony Khan needs to stay off Twitter and stop engaging the trolls, but the numbers speak for themselves. 

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Posted (edited)

Quick thoughts breezing through Night 2.

Opening tag was fun. Glad it was a brisk match and didn't drag. Archer/Janela - great seeing Kiss used as a punching bag at the beginning, then later getting some revenge when Jake distracted the ref. I'd almost swear this is Jake's second time distracting the ref during a match to give Archer's opponent a couple of cheap shots. Could be wrong. Taz with the title! Lmao! For everyone complaining about AEW having a non-finished singles title with Cody, looks like Taz heard ya and came to the rescue!😂

Holy shit, Pants Free Jr shows up, going on about the guys attire in the basement scene of Pulp Fiction and being a Gimp fan!  Bah gawd, Jim, bless you 😂

 

Quick genuine question, this talking point about AEW putting things on hold until live crowds return.. was this something Kahn or one of the VP's came out and said? I'm jogging my memory to see if this might be something from a press conference or AMA or BTE or Dark or Dynamite? Appreciate any help 

Edited by Hayabusa
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I mean dress it up every which way, but Khan is a pretty young guy throwing some of the money generated by his father's billions at the project. A tweet like that is the kind of thing Dixie Carter would have (rightly) been slammed for back in the day. The stories of how they arrived to the positions they are in are not too dissimilar. He should probably focus more on how he can get back towards retrieving the 30% audience drop off they've had since autumn/turn of the year while battling the WWE C-brand than tweets like that and the vacuous promo of a mid-90s novelty title some of his 'demo' weren't even alive for. Was a huge fan of what they were putting out in March but it has stalled since. Lots of great ideas in this thread; booking needs an element of surprise back in and just cut the chaff. Great roster, no need for it.

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On live crowds, I don't really know what kind of money AEW is making on their TV deal. I've heard conflicting reports that they are still turning a slight profit, to losing some money. It doesn't seem clear to me unless someone has a real source to clear that up. But if you are actually turning a slight profit, or only making losses that (to a person of Tony Khan or Vince McMahon's resources) are very marginal, I honestly see no reason to fuck around with a live audience at all right now.

I get it, it makes wrestling worse by not having a real crowd to react off of. Nobody is suggesting it is ideal. But if you're actually still making money, last I checked that is the end goal. Keep eyes on the prize.

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I think it was Meltzer who was saying they're losing money without live gates. I also don't think you'll see the Khans be okay with losing a bunch of money on this venture like the Carters were with TNA. The improved contract they signed with TNT was what shifted them from red to black, so they were ahead of schedule in that regard but pegged back by the lack of ticket sales. 

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3 hours ago, A_K said:

I mean dress it up every which way, but Khan is a pretty young guy throwing some of the money generated by his father's billions at the project. A tweet like that is the kind of thing Dixie Carter would have (rightly) been slammed for back in the day. The stories of how they arrived to the positions they are in are not too dissimilar. He should probably focus more on how he can get back towards retrieving the 30% audience drop off they've had since autumn/turn of the year while battling the WWE C-brand than tweets like that and the vacuous promo of a mid-90s novelty title some of his 'demo' weren't even alive for. Was a huge fan of what they were putting out in March but it has stalled since. Lots of great ideas in this thread; booking needs an element of surprise back in and just cut the chaff. Great roster, no need for it.

These tweets annoy me less than tweeting about earth-shattering announcements that send shockwaves BS. I get he's trying to generate hype for the show, but that is the kind of garbage that put me off TNA as well years back. 

IMHO the numbers aren't bad. We're in the middle of a global pandemic and Dynamite is regularly in the cable top 10 ratings every week. They are putting on shows in a mostly empty arena. Wrestling loses a lot without the crowd elements. And they are competing with NXT for two hours every week. 

Edited by TheVileOne
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6 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

Quick thoughts breezing through Night 2.

Opening tag was fun. Glad it was a brisk match and didn't drag. Archer/Janela - great seeing Kiss used as a punching bag at the beginning, then later getting some revenge when Jake distracted the ref. I'd almost swear this is Jake's second time distracting the ref during a match to give Archer's opponent a couple of cheap shots. Could be wrong. 

Not wrong at all dude, the same thing happened in the title match with Cody. I was thinking that too when he was distracting the ref. I'd rather Archer go alone, because I think Jake detracts from him. He's an old dude who can't walk very comfortably making decisions that seem confused. Why is Archer putting up with that. Not a massive fan of Arn with Cody either. During the build up to the Cody-archer match I hated the "confrontation" between Jake and Arn, especially when they were squaring up to each other. I just found it sad that these 2 old guys were trying so hard to relive past glories and trying to present that they were still as tough as the young guys. 

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6 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

These tweets annoy me less than tweeting about earth-shattering announcements that send shockwaves BS. I get he's trying to generate hype for the show, but that is the kind of garbage that put me off TNA as well years back. 

Agreed. To be honest they don’t even annoy per se, I don’t care strongly enough about it, but they aren’t a great look objectively speaking. There was a post elsewhere to the effect of “all promoters are going to do carny-like hype jobs” .. well, I’m not exactly sure that’s true. It’s what separates quality promoters from the less so (whether it’s wrestling, boxing, music festivals ... you name it). It may sound like a pop at Khan but it really isn’t trying to be - he didn’t arrive at the position he’s in by being a world class promoter who built it from the ground up on innovation, so maybe the promoting side of things is something he needs help with. They’ve got the pieces, just need to position them.

Totally take on board your point re lockdown-audiences; I think I posted a couple of weeks ago but the more knawing concern is that they don’t really seem to be building momentum outside of the great tag division (which itself has a lot of needless chaff hanging around), where Paige/Omega need to drop the titles soon. Someone else posted that it’s all become a bit too “nice” and maybe there’s something in that. 

 

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12 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

For bragging about winning in one category, and as I already stated here for overhyping damn near every part of the show, and failing to deliver on not one, but two “huge surprises” including one that was going to be “earth shattering, and change the wrestling industry” last night. He needs to get his head out of his rear end, deliver on promises, and until then tweet much less. 

He won every category but boomers. Again. I’d be crowing if I were him, too.

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Meltz with a take:

Quote

AEW had pushed Jericho vs. Cassidy hard for weeks, with strong angles. The reality is the angles didn’t do well. Cassidy is hurt greatly from lack of live crowds. Cassidy had done well in quarters, but it was also midway or once even somewhat late in the show. He hasn’t done well when booked as a main eventer, and there are merch movers and people who get pops and there are main eventers. They are all different animals. And Jericho vs. Cassidy did do well based on usual quarter eights for AEW in 18-49, and had the highest numbers in 35-49 of any segment on either show.

His closest comparison historically is mid-80s heyday JCP Jimmy Valiant, who always got huge crowd reactions for his matches, but the promotion knew enough to keep him in the middle with mid-level heels, and always winning as opposed to headlining him against the top tier guys and losing. And it wasn’t even clear that was the main event ahead of time, as AEW had depth, but no match with any real stakes. Of course that was because the scheduled Jon Moxley vs. Brian Cage main event had to be pushed back a week.

 

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I watched the show last night.

OMG, that eight man tag. Oh, and the main event is great as well. So re: crowds...there is no doubt in my mind, the fans would have went crazy for that match. Even if OC didn't win, it would be a star making performance.

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Just now, Curt McGirt said:

Re: The crowds, it amuses me that WWE seems to be social distancing their "crowds" ten times better than AEW

To be fair, WWE's alarming rate of infections is perhaps the reason for that. 

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4 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Re: The crowds, it amuses me that WWE seems to be social distancing their "crowds" ten times better than AEW

Those people are tested from what I can tell. They had the yellow wristbands, which are the ones confirming a negative test result.

But, yeah, I am going to be really disappointed if AEW is bringing back crowds before this pandemic is at least "manageable," whatever that may be.

Edited by Oyaji
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FF Night 2 was good fun.  Like I e'rybody I loved the 8 man and the OC-Jericho main.  I watch on delay and skim things I have less interest in, but caught most everything on this show.  Curious who Nyla Rose's management will be?  Tho, I hope it doesn't cut into her promo time - she's become very underrated on the stick.  Janela-Archer was a lot of fun.  So to PP-Kenny/Hangman.  PP gets a lot of shit for being so green, but I think they're both slowly getting better week to week.  Nice clean fast tag bout to open.  Also dug the Dark Order-SCU six man.  All those guys are looking good.  Of all the big name turns that are fantasy booked week to week on here, there is nobody that could use a switch more than the SCU.  Those guys are just fodder now.  Scorp in particular needs to be freshened up and given some sort of upward momentum.  Continuing to look forward to (the re-invigorated) Taz's promos.  FTW title doesn't really fit the angle like it did back in 1998 when the Franchise went down with an injury and they were year-long building to Taz taking the strap.  But who cares, it's a neat nod to the past.  I assume it lasts about a week when Mox takes it for his belt collection.  The stolen truck roll-up from Team Butcher wasn't as great as Trent's Mom chauffering the Besties, but dug this one nonetheless.  Man, I love the Butcher.  And it was so great to be reminded of the glorious talents of Rey Fenix and his brother Pentagon this week.  FTR/YBs story is nice and tidy storytelling and I dig it all the way.  And OC just absolutely rules.  Love his fire.  Love those nutty bumps he takes.  Jericho was awesome throughout this.  As fun as any match he's had in AEW thus far.  I expected he'd win and it didn't matter one bit.  Here's hoping this feud continues.  

Lotta post-ratings boo-hoos here.  I don't think AEW/TK is doing anything substantially wrong.  Sure, it could always be better, but I see no reason to be anything but pleased with the consistent booking and excellent opportunity everybody is getting week to week.  As for Tony K tweeting, yeah, sure he ought not to get into it and just be confident with the product and the key demo numbers.  But I'm thrilled to hear he's happy and that the company is in good shape.  AEW MGMT from the get go has been realistic about a slow build.    They aren't hotshotting or desperately grabbing for lowest common denominator numbers.  So good!  As for the low rating numbers, it's not really a surprise. As the world is unraveling with social unrest, and everybody masks up and social distances, it's not hard to believe that wrestling wouldn't be the most appealing programming right now.  That said, I hope they keep rolling along with these terribly fun shows.    

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Re: Orange Cassidy, ratings, and spoilers: I imagine more people who read the spoilers would be more into Keith Lee winning the title(s) than Jericho going over Cassidy, I wouldn’t read too much into Cassidy as a ratings draw.

Edited by JonnyLaw
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This last show was the most I've been entertained in a long, long time. In my opinion, it feels like they're trying to do new stuff but still be in a holding pattern at the same time to give the best stuff away when crowds come back. Shit, if that's the case, you might as well do whatever you were planning now because there is no telling when you will be up and running at full capacity. By the time that happens, you could have rolled through five or six hot programs. I don't think people are going to be mad if you do that.

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It will absolutely suck that the first Bucks/FTR match will be in front of family, friends, and hungry indie wrestlers. And Austin Gunn. But there's just no way they can hold off until fans are back anywhere near a decent capacity. My only question is when does it happen? At All Out? Or, do they go real slow-like and do the teased FTR/Page vs. Bucks/Omega match there? Or is that where FTR beat Omega/Page?

Okay, this is less fantasy booking and more logical glossing over where the world title is going over the next 6 months or so... Please poke holes in my logic. Where do you think I'm most likely to be wrong?

MJF is the next challenger for Moxley after Cage. But unless they are planning on putting the title on MJF, who is left after him? I wouldn't be shocked if the Wardlow/MJF blow-up starts during the latter's challenge, giving him an excuse for his loss (that he doesn't really need as a chickenshit heel, but he's been very well protected) and something interesting to do for the next 3-4 months plus. Who is the next logical champion after MJF? If they want another monster of the week, it could be Archer, but that feels like quite a few less than believable challengers all in a row for Moxley, with I'd say only MJF as a person I could see as champion. Legitimately, the guys that feel ready for the title are: Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega, Hangman, and maybe Pac after an extended heat-up program but I don't think you can just plug him in right away on his return. You can eliminate Cody for now and almost assuredly Jericho too, leaving you with Hangman and Omega as realistic options. Hangman and Omega logically will have a program after their title run ends, with the winner getting Moxley. I doubt they're giving Omega/Hangman away on TV and I don't see them fast-tracking it to All Out, which leaves Full Gear. That would mean Moxley likely holds the title until Revolution?! Could they throw one of the upper midcard guys or projects in the mix and give a run with the title? It feels like Hangman's the guy to beat Moxley. But, Kenny beating Moxley in a straight wrestling match would make sense, avenging his loss to Moxley and setting up a rubber match (*fantasy booking* Three Stages of Hell!). It really does feel like they need one more tippy top guy to be honest. They should take their time with the likes of Jungle Boy, MJF (he's probably closest), Sammy, Darby, Wardlow, Starks, Pentagon, Fenix, and OC but each of them could be main event level talents. Some of their monsters could be too, though most of them are missing an element that would make them truly believable. 

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I love that you completely discounted the possibility that Cage wins the title. But I agree, it will be interesting where they go after next week. Presuming Mox retains, it is tough to say who they go with next but I wouldn't be surprised if they do go back to Jericho at some point. Le Champion needs the gold, babay!

Edited by Godfrey
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