TheVileOne Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Generally, I can be very hot and cold about Dave Meltzer's reporting. Sometimes he clearly hits onto things that I think are impressive. I think sometimes, he and Alvarez get bullied when it's unwarranted. Everyone accuses them of being on AEW payroll. I mean from a wrestling standpoint, I can understand a preference to AEW over WWE, especially with some of WWE's more embarrassing booking choices. Other times, I find him frustrating and flabbergasting. No offense to fans of Meltzer, but his coverage on this topic so far has been terrible. He's clearly avoiding talking about and reporting on certain people. Also this nonsense: Quote One story we're going to see is a whole cleansing of the business and the only thing I can say is that, you know in the case of the guilty parties and it's got to be and I just hope that some... you know, I mean, I know that there's a fear of everyone in the business of innocent parties or you know, whatever. You know, there's a huge fear in the business for people who are not guilty too and rightfully so by the way. I've been... I mean, I know I woke up this morning and I was told certain people are targets who have nothing to do with nothing. I don't want to mention names. They're not even...people that are not even wrestlers and I mean they're in the business but they're not even... and they're targets and people trying to get them and they're trying to find stuff on them and it's you know, because it's like... What's the word I'm looking for? It's.. you know, there's there's real victims and then there's people who are trying to get people at the same time and those people really suck too. So it's a lot of suckiness right now. I wish for this topic of all things due to his position and influence he'd take a little more time to prepare what he will say about it. Honestly, just based on a fraction of these allegations, I am somewhat in favor of the nuke it from orbit and rebuild it plan, which is sounding good right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt925 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) That’s also like 1 minute out of 30 on the subject. Who is he not talking about? Edit: maybe ospreay and scurll? I guess I haven’t heard them really mentioned. Not that I think it’s nefarious. Edited June 24, 2020 by matt925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Icarus - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said: As someone who is good friends with the person whose posting the CHIKARA stuff and helped her deal through the fucking bullshit that company put her through, shoutout to Joey Janela for trying to attack her character for doing so because she works for CZW now a days. Like this isn't something that fits the main criteria here, but when the best friend you've ever had gets shots taken at her after she goes into her time going through hell in her life, I'm going to be fucking livid. I’m going to preface this by saying I’m not trying to make it out to sound like she’s hiding something. I believe her when she says she’s never witnessed abuse at CZW. On another board I post on, a guy there runs the Knight’s promotion’s YouTube page (and maybe social media or something) - when all of this came out about Saraya and their training and whatnot, he defended them, saying he went through it, wasn’t that bad, he never saw abuse of any kind, and the people that were coming forward have motives beyond wanting to speak out. Keep in mind, he was participating in this thread as well, talking about things like the Pollyanna situation and PROGRESS and whatnot. But when allegations came out about his employer, he tightened up. Not saying she’s doing the same thing, AT ALL. It just reminded me of that situation, because it’s not too often that you run into people on this board or that one, in my experience, that have direct links to some of these people or promotions. Janela handled that the wrong way, but just because she hasn’t witnessed it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. But I get where you’re coming from, 100%. There’s also an indie wrestler over there that made vague mentions of OVW’s school doing similar things - very old school training. It was brought up because Al Snow’s business school/OVW was brought up as an example of how to do things going forward. But apparently for all the good things like business classes and whatnot, he’s still a very old school type trainer that breaks you down mentally and physically - like the Harts and to a more extreme degree, the Knights. Edited June 24, 2020 by Casey Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) double post Edited June 24, 2020 by Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: Generally, I can be very hot and cold about Dave Meltzer's reporting. Sometimes he clearly hits onto things that I think are impressive. I think sometimes, he and Alvarez get bullied when it's unwarranted. Everyone accuses them of being on AEW payroll. I mean from a wrestling standpoint, I can understand a preference to AEW over WWE, especially with some of WWE's more embarrassing booking choices. Other times, I find him frustrating and flabbergasting. No offense to fans of Meltzer, but his coverage on this topic so far has been terrible. He's clearly avoiding talking about and reporting on certain people. Also this nonsense: I wish for this topic of all things due to his position and influence he'd take a little more time to prepare what he will say about it. Honestly, just based on a fraction of these allegations, I am somewhat in favor of the nuke it from orbit and rebuild it plan, which is sounding good right about now. Okay, it's pretty well known that Dave and I go back over thirty years so I may be just a tad biased here FWIW. What would you have him say as a journalist about as yet unproven allegations? There are such things as libel laws and Dave has pretty deep pockets. So far what we have are unproven allegations (I happen to believe them, but I'm not sending out a newsletter to thousands of subscribers, I'm just a guy typing in his office with an opinion based on what seems to be a preponderance of evidence.) Meltz has to be a lot more careful about what he says in print or on line. I'm about the most unsueable person in the world, everything is in my wife's name and I keep that way for a reason, I'm a public figure in other circles and supposedly a fairly polarizing one; if someone wants to sue me for calling them a jackwagon or other endearing term, they are most welcome to waste their money trying. Edited June 24, 2020 by OSJ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 20 minutes ago, OSJ said: I'm glad at least a couple of people got the reference. There's a pretty good documentary about his trials and tribulations on Prime (or maybe Netflix, one of the two). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Curt McGirt said: There's a pretty good documentary about his trials and tribulations on Prime (or maybe Netflix, one of the two). As you may imagine about someone whose friend and mentor was Harlan Ellison, I'm a Comicbook Legal Defense guy from way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I'm fucking gutted. I took my daughter to a Chikara show when she was 4 or 5. She was fascinated by Ophidian, and to this day, at just 12 (two weeks ago, in fact) she will list "the snake man" as one of her favorite wrestlers. 1) I fucking hope Ophidian isn't one of those mentioned. Two reasons, one being the obvious as mentioned above. The other: During intermission, we were doing the autograph run with the wrestlers, and Kingston, Ophidian, and Icarus had occupied one corner of the venue. He took a picture with her, and he whispered something to her, and she said he told her tha k you for coming. In the main, Ophidian came out to interfere or for a match or something (this was 2013, and my memory isn't what it was), and as heel Ophidian is doing his dastardly heel shit, my daughter is right at the edge of the row of seats. He looks over at her and she waves her little hand at him, and he slyly waves back. And that's one of my favorite memories of probably anything ever. 2) Same night; for full disclosure, I have amazing hearing, almost superhuman I've been told. I can pick individual conversations out of large groups of people, I can hear whispers several feet away. And while there was nothing necessarily said that was sexual in nature, I can attest that, in private conversation that I particularly can't avoid hearing, at least in one moment, Icarus is a fucking scumbag. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Speaking of Icarus... he’s been accused of roughing up an underage girl. Not sure if that’s sexually or just flat out assault, but the note mentioned he was showing pictures to the locker room and bragging that she liked it rough (so likely sexual). Edited June 24, 2020 by Casey My phone won’t let me spell correctly tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I'll be curious to see how mainstream sports outlets in the US handle the kind of hazing stories in wrestling we are hearing about when people start documenting their stories from sports like football and hockey and lacrosse, among others. They have always been around, especially in junior hockey which have been documented in Canada. But when it touches big time college football, will there be an uproar on espn ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, OSJ said: Okay, it's pretty well known that Dave and I go back over thirty years so I may be just a tad biased here FWIW. What would you have him say as a journalist about as yet unproven allegations? There are such things as libel laws and Dave has pretty deep pockets. So far what we have are unproven allegations (I happen to believe them, but I'm not sending out a newsletter to thousands of subscribers, I'm just a guy typing in his office with an opinion based on what seems to be a preponderance of evidence.) Meltz has to be a lot more careful about what he says in print or on line. I'm about the most unsueable person in the world, everything is in my wife's name and I keep that way for a reason, I'm a public figure in other circles and supposedly a fairly polarizing one; if someone wants to sue me for calling them a jackwagon or other endearing term, they are most welcome to waste their money trying. I said this in another thread but the best example of this is when Alvarez goes on a wild tirade about someone or something and you can clearly see Dave is holding back and not saying anything because he knows he has to choose his words very carefully for lots of reasons and if he says what he's thinking it will cause him all kinds of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I’m gonna pray that he’s not one of the bad guys, @nate. For that memory, I really hope so. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 49 minutes ago, matt925 said: That’s also like 1 minute out of 30 on the subject. Who is he not talking about? Edit: maybe ospreay and scurll? I guess I haven’t heard them really mentioned. Not that I think it’s nefarious. The in the business but not makes me think of The Cornettes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said: I’m gonna pray that he’s not one of the bad guys, @nate. For that memory, I really hope so. Thank you. That really means a lot, more than a "like" could convey. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Just now, nate said: Thank you. That really means a lot, more than a "like" could convey. For whatever it's worth, I'm staying out of the specific stories being told on this out of principle (It's not my business unless they make it public), but from being friends with someone who has lots of bad stories to tell about that company, I have not heard a bad word about Ophidian. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, The Man Known as Dan said: For whatever it's worth, I'm staying out of the specific stories being told on this out of principle (It's not my business unless they make it public), but from being friends with someone who has lots of bad stories to tell about that company, I have not heard a bad word about Ophidian. I'm hoping that remains true. Thank you for that. I guess we all have our particular breaking points when it comes to these kinds of things, and that would deeply affect me. The preservation of that moment I had with my kid, that would probably be the closest I'd come to trying to justify or explain away something hideous, and that's nowhere near any part of who I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 What really sucks is, you may be innocent, but are you really if you knew about these things and didn't speak up? I'm talking about anybody around these abuses, in any company, not specifically Chikara and its workers. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons (or justifications), but... It's got to be a hard question for a lot of people to ask themselves right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grilledcheese Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 That's the same argument being made for the "some bad apples" horseshit with the cops, yeah? I'm of the idea that 95 good guys saying nothing about 5 bad guys equals 100 bad guys. Obviously, I don't think that people that are innocent of abuse should have to face any consequences for someone else's actions, but you make a really excellent point about it being a hard thing to have to come to terms with if you are one of the folks that has knowingly ignored this behavior, for sure. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Great point. In this consideration, the whole deal is a microcosmic comparison of what is happening right now with the police state. But we should probably leave further comparisons at that for the sake of the conversation. (Please please please. We do not need to walk any further down this road.) Edited June 24, 2020 by Curt McGirt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 This wasn't even a tweet related to wrestling but it's really a very on the mark statement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Dave Meltzer is the most fucking frustrating person to listen to talk. He says "you know" about a million times. He does these podcasts multiple times a week. Fucking write down what you want to say in advance. Alvarez desperately tries to reign Dave in, but it's all futile. And despite that, I still like listening to WOR. I don't know why. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Ape Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) You all know I’ve been Chikara’s head cheerleader on here the past few years, and... honestly, this might be the last straw for me. Kobald was my daughter’s favorite since I started taking her to shows four years ago, and it sucked having to explain how much a piece of shit her favorite is. But the clusterbombs about Quack and co., when I’ve brought my daughter around there regularly, is too much to think about. I was going to join movements to help reform this shitty business. But this convinced me that is impossible. Time to let it die. I swear to God, if Hallowicked is one of the people who did awful things, I will personally nuke this whole planet into ash. Edited June 24, 2020 by Super Ape 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 You know I had no strong opinions about Janela before today. I really really didn't. Now I have too much anger to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Ape Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, The Man Known as Dan said: You know I had no strong opinions about Janela before today. I really really didn't. Now I have too much anger to sleep. Motherfuck Janela. So many AEW people have shown their own asses the past week, roster and fan base alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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