NikoBaltimore Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I'm reading a couple things where one's saying the tweet was deleted. And elsewhere it says that it was actually for somebody named Darrel Allen that people assumed meant Darby. Hell if I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said: I'm reading a couple things where one's saying the tweet was deleted. And elsewhere it says that it was actually for somebody named Darrel Allen that people assumed meant Darby. Hell if I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 minute ago, NikoBaltimore said: I'm reading a couple things where one's saying the tweet was deleted. And elsewhere it says that it was actually for somebody named Darrel Allen that people assumed meant Darby. Hell if I know. Likewise. Though my dislike of Seattle skate-punks is legendary (with good reason). Fuckers try and force people off the sidewalks with their antics because they think its funny. Yeah, I'm built like a fireplug with arms and legs, try crashing into me and see what happens motherfucker... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Saraya Knight is retiring after allegations against her and the Knight Family. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Between this and COVID, the whole industry should just shut the fuck down for a few months, sort shit out, and reopen when they've gotten their shit together. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said: I'm reading a couple things where one's saying the tweet was deleted. And elsewhere it says that it was actually for somebody named Darrel Allen that people assumed meant Darby. Hell if I know. I was about ready to type up a comment about my fears for this movement, but this is as good of a place as any to start. So my fear is that #speakingout winds up like #metoo where it gets co-opted and turned into something that winds up tearing down the movement or causes people to move on or disregard it. Twitter is fucking awful and evil. Facebook is right there with it. It's too fucking easy to say whatever the fuck you want in the moment and have it gain traction. I'm not saying that this accusation against Darby is full of shit (I honestly don't know what to think), but it feels like we're getting close to the point where you're going to have anyone saying something false about another person they don't like, tagging them on it, and two things result - 1) The movement is diminished because people will wind up looking at it as something lacking in credibility because of the number of false accusations made and 2) Honest careers wind up being hurt because even though the accusations are fake, people run with the bullshit anyway and it sticks to that person forever. Again, this isn't me discrediting this recent thing about Darby or anyone else. I mean, the dude has always come off as something of a loner jerk so who the fuck knows. I think what I'm trying to say that this has been a good start to the movement and as it grows there needs to be a broader strategy used to out people that are scumbags. I honestly don't know what that strategy should be, but it needs to be something more than just saying everything and anything on Twitter because otherwise it will wind up like #metoo where the whole thing loses steam and falls apart. I don't want that to happen. I said it elsewhere, but this is such an inflection point where it could really change this entire industry and others for the better. For now, #speakingout on Twitter works. What happens when a week or two weeks from now people start making false accusations or saying whatever bullshit they want because there's nothing to stop them from doing so. It will turn what could be a movement into just a blip that quickly fades away and allows the scumbags that do exist to skate free. I really don't know what the answer is. People are angry, upset, and they need a voice to speak to these issues. Twitter is working fine for now. I don't know what you do beyond though. Maybe there's an attorney willing to take up the cause and speak for these people without charging an arm and a leg. Maybe it leads to companies re-vetting each and every single talent on the roster to find out what skeletons lurk in people's closets. I really don't know, but I hope someone figures it out so that the momentum this has at the moment is sustained and it doesn't just fizzle out. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 More Teddy Hart allegations came out. And Alpha Female said the WWE UK PC is a bother of racism. Possibly it's time to pull the plug on NXT UK? Transfer the few wrestlers who are both morally clean and marketable or talented to the States and let everyone else go? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, AxB said: More Teddy Hart allegations came out. And Alpha Female said the WWE UK PC is a bother of racism. Possibly it's time to pull the plug on NXT UK? Transfer the few wrestlers who are both morally clean and marketable or talented to the States and let everyone else go? Pretty sure WALTER would have none of that, and in order for that to work, WWE has to clean their own Stateside houses first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) On 6/21/2020 at 8:39 PM, Casey said: Bull James (Bull Dempsey in NXT) controlled and blackmailed nudes from a 17 year old. I have a bit of an issue with this one. Maybe I'm reacting from my own experiences (as recent as two weeks ago) being sexually harassed by women, but this seems disingenuous from a woman who used to hold up signs in front of young children signaling her desire to aggressively perform oral, anal, and regular sex with the male wrestlers who were the subjects of her signs. Then, she made this a large part of how she marketed herself for her side hustle of selling nudes online. I imagine how well this would go if I held up a sign, "FACE FUCK ME BECKY", and then used it as a tool to urge people to pay me for pictures of my penis. I addressed her propensity and delight for being "that sign girl" thru a conversation on Facebook once, where I asked her how she would respond if a parent asked her to put her sign away if he were attending a show with his child (my daughter was 6 at the time, maybe 7, and I have tried her whole life to protect her from anything that I wasn't ready to discuss with her and what it means). Felicia Rose called me a bad father, and she accused me of threatening her with physical violence over a sign. She shared our discussion on Facebook (I don't remember if it was her own Facebook or a thread where it came up), where I was then attacked by a great number of her sycophantic male fanbase, called a great many names for homosexual, threatened with violence, etc. That doesn't affect how some may see her crusade against abuse and exploitation in the wrestling industry. But just seeing her name impacts me, in this context and that which I mentioned above. And maybe my own experience with sexual harassment has my viewpoint skewed, but ... I think I'll put this in spoilers. Edited June 23, 2020 by nate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Oyaji said: At this point it would be easier to nuke the wrestling business and start anew from the ground up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 This may have been posted but since people brought up the Alpha Female stuff recently, people should seek out Zack Gibson's response. I have zero idea who Zack Gibson is, but when he starts engaging with everyone in the comments about board games, it's pretty great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, Craig H said: I was about ready to type up a comment about my fears for this movement, but this is as good of a place as any to start. So my fear is that #speakingout winds up like #metoo where it gets co-opted and turned into something that winds up tearing down the movement or causes people to move on or disregard it. Twitter is fucking awful and evil. Facebook is right there with it. It's too fucking easy to say whatever the fuck you want in the moment and have it gain traction. I have seen one or two posts from what I think are organizers of #speakingout (I cant remember names so I cant search for the Tweets) trying to get people to stay on message and not expanded it to every indiscretion every (especially citing just examples of bullying) I know I already saw one point of controversy as Xia Brookside tweeted about the bullying she suffered early in her training and folks (including other female wrestlers) were attacking her because it was a lot of "This is about sexual assault and you are just trying to make it about you" etc etc... which she (Xia) pushed back on It is difficult thing because you want the folks who are comfortable speaking out to speak out and to get immediately attacked for "not doing it the right way" just highlights why so many are afraid to speak up. I guess my point it to caution about trying to pigeon hole things. Or to stifle discussion because it might not necessarily "fit". 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 The knight family exposed as very scummy doesn't surprise me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Matt D said: This may have been posted but since people brought up the Alpha Female stuff recently, people should seek out Zack Gibson's response. I have zero idea who Zack Gibson is, but when he starts engaging with everyone in the comments about board games, it's pretty great. Side note, I helped beta test Secret Hitler. I think it's a much, much better version of a game called Resistance. The theme for it isn't evil or anything like that. Fascists are basically depicted as lizard people, the policies aren't specific policies and just say "Fascist Article" or "Liberal Article." It's a lot of fun if you have around 7 people that want to get together for a social game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, RIPPA said: I have seen one or two posts from what I think are organizers of #speakingout (I cant remember names so I cant search for the Tweets) trying to get people to stay on message and not expanded it to every indiscretion every (especially citing just examples of bullying) I know I already saw one point of controversy as Xia Brookside tweeted about the bullying she suffered early in her training and folks (including other female wrestlers) were attacking her because it was a lot of "This is about sexual assault and you are just trying to make it about you" etc etc... which she (Xia) pushed back on It is difficult thing because you want the folks who are comfortable speaking out to speak out and to get immediately attacked for "not doing it the right way" just highlights why so many are afraid to speak up. I guess my point it to caution about trying to pigeon hole things. Or to stifle discussion because it might not necessarily "fit". Yeah, and this doesn't need to be limited to sexual assault or abusive comments. It's been brought up repeatedly, but the hazing of wrestlers in WWE and elsewhere, JBL soaping people's butts in the shower or taping them down in the shower, abusive training practices (whether if that's the stuff Hugh Morris did or other trainers did/do), and just bullying in general (the shit Tessa and others have done) needs to be brought to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Matt D said: This may have been posted but since people brought up the Alpha Female stuff recently, people should seek out Zack Gibson's response. I have zero idea who Zack Gibson is, but when he starts engaging with everyone in the comments about board games, it's pretty great. He's Liverpool's #1, pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 JIm Cornette's response...if you want to listen to a him cut essentially a one hour promo on his sex life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) The last time I paid for anything wrestling-related was buying the WarGames DVD set. I feel pretty comfortable with that being the last thing now, unless I ever get another '80s set or something. You can still watch plenty of wrestling without giving wrestling any money (besides the pennies somebody might get from Youtube I guess). Now whether it disgusts you outright that you might be watching a predator... that's another matter. EDIT: This has been as big a problem with me as a music fan. As a metalhead I'm always having to dig around about bands that could possibly be politically dodgy, and who knows about their personal lives beyond that; I've already seen predators run out of town in the local punk scene who were thought of as "nice guys" so there's no telling about some random band in a foreign country. It's a pain, but you deal with it, because I'm not going to live my life without music. So I feel for you film industry people too as well as us wrestling fans in this respect. Edited June 23, 2020 by Curt McGirt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said: My wife works for one of the locations and if the owner saw some of the people working there he/she would have a coronary. Christ, does corporate intentionally hire homophobic assholes to run their chain locations?! I mean seriously... I'll also give another example in the music field here. Just the other day I'd mentioned to a friend on the East Coast that I bought something from a one-person independent label formerly known as SPHC, changed to a kind of multi-label distro called Believe In Punk. Cheap prices, good selection. Anyway, this friend says "yeah, that guy lives in Minneapolis now, he was ran off the Coast for sexually assaulting women and apparently had a thing for exposing himself in public". Meanwhile I'd ordered something from this guy a week or two before. So, another one to cross off the list, with a feeling of disgust for having given this prick some money. I responded back to my friend that this same shit is going on in pro wrestling right now. Edited June 23, 2020 by Curt McGirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Just now, Curt McGirt said: Christ, does corporate intentionally hire homophobic assholes to run their chain locations?! I mean seriously... You know, it's possible my point didn't make as much sense as I intended. I just meant considering how shitty the owner is the place my wife works has great people that she loves working with. Some that said owner would not care for. Not saying that corporate intentionally hires one way or another. But considering the main topic if I need to clear the air via DM that might be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 No your point was clear, I was just hypothesizing. I mean we all know Chik-Fil-A does what they do but it's just crazy that your wife's boss is just as bad as corporate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 A few queries and some thoughts: - I didn't see anything about Theory? What's the story there? I've been on Twitter a very long time and it definitely has its good (giving people a voice) and its bad (giving people a voice). Certainly there's been a lot of stuff that gets thrown out there and retweeted and elevated without people really thinking to deep into it. The fact that there's confusion in this thread whether Darby Allin was accused of rape or not is evident of that. I'm sure someone said something about Theory on Twitter but there's an inherent issue with credibility on Twitter. Unfortunately, it's why journalism has standards on accusations (theoretically) - In regards to Elgin - I lost the plot with his story years ago. Did Impact suspend him for new stuff that came out or is this related to the stuff years ago? Wasn't there a lawsuit over that or something? - Also, so...I mean, these stories are gonna continue to pour out for a while but a bigger question is what do we do about fixing the issue. I really feel independent wrestling is gonna have a real tough time bouncing back from this. AEW, WWE - they can put protocols in place and for the most part they can keep a wall around wrestlers and fans on company grounds and they can have oversight over what training is being done. "Cleaning up" independent wrestling would be like cleaning up the music scene at your local punk rock venue. A lot of it has to be self-policed but power dynamic and gender dynamics is always gonna be an issue. It seems so much of independent wrestling is based on the personal connection between wrestlers and fans. You meet them at the merch stand, you hit the bar afterwards with them, maybe you let them crash on your couch or whatever. Wrestling is a carny business - it's based on the relationship with your audience. The whole point of the art is manipulating emotions. A huge appeal of indy wrestling is it allows a closer connection to the performer. You never got to meet Randy Savage but you sure as shit can have a beer with (to use a non-creep) Chris Hero after the show. The very nature of the system invites trouble, especially when it involves interacting with younger, inexperienced people. And a lot of these stories seem to involve "I hung out with the guy. I thought we were friends and [insert horrific assault or abuse story). " Personally, I've always side-eyed at wrestlers interacting with fans on social media, especially fawning female fans. Just go to the bar and try to get laid like a normal human, ya know. Wrestling also attracts a fandom that, well, may not always be the most socially confident type or may not feel like they "fit it." These are people that you definitely have to be more considerate of and you have to be sure can be made safe. If I'm an independent company I'm putting a wall between performers and fans. No more merch tables. Encourage the wrestlers to not fraternize with fans before or after the show. I remember in Pensacola it was always known that the WWF guys would hit a strip club after the show. The reason was they wouldn't run into crazy fans or underagers and the bar had bouncers and security to keep an eye on things. - At this point, enough evidence should be in that being on social media will only lead to awful things. Every wrestler should delete their account and stop interacting with fans. - In regards to the exploitation of trainers and trainees. No one under 18 should be trained. - The stuff about wanting separate dressing rooms is trickier for indy wrestling but I do think there is a discussion to be had about intergender wrestling and the message and the normalization of abuse and violence it sends and, coincidence or not, maybe the most high profile normalizer of IG is ending up as the biggest creep of this moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 48 minutes ago, zendragon said: JIm Cornette's response...if you want to listen to a him cut essentially a one hour promo on his sex life HARD PASS 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Addendum - the Post Wrestling guys did a really nice job on last night's Raw review talking about all this. And they correctly pointed out that we have multiple issues being lumped into one. I have figured it breaks down like this. - Exploitation/assault of female wrestlers by trainers/co-workers/promoters in the workplace. - Wrestlers being accused of assault/manipulation by former partners during a relationship. - Wrestlers being accused of assault/rape by other wrestlers and fans. - Wrestlers being accused of engaging in predatory/uncomfortable/inappropriate online behavior with fans, including those underage. - Sammy Guevara making a shitty joke on a podcast years ago. I think it's very important to keep these distinctions in mind. Edited June 23, 2020 by Hagan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, zendragon said: JIm Cornette's response...if you want to listen to a him cut essentially a one hour promo on his sex life Quick summary: THIS GUY FUCKS. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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