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JUNE 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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I wonder if anybody had to veto the concept of making Mongo the 36th member of the NWO sometime post-Hennig turn/pre-Flair return. On one hand, heel Mongo standing a crowd and not working much can't fuck much up. On the other hand, he probably wanted to keep partying with Ric Flair.

Also, was the Jarrett run in 96/97 WCW as pointless as it seems in retrospect? But then again, Jarrett really didn't get rolling until they cut his hair in 1998.

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I feel like they had a little something with Jarrett in that run, but that was mostly because Debra was such a good heel. Her nasal Southern drawl generated immediate cheap heat, but beyond that, she was great at being a shitty, gossipy asshole. 

She transferred some of her "sneakily breaking up the Horsemen" heat onto Jarrett that he desperately needed, but when he was able to latch onto that heat, his feud with Mongo and the Mongo/Debra/Jarrett love triangle made for some fun television. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Even the bad stuff is sort of fun. Not like, Vince Russo's bad stuff, but Robocop and the Black Scorpion and even Ric Flair having to kiss Dusty Rhodes's ass. 

You know what I think is undervalued about WCW is that those shows had wrestling matches that were there for the sake of having a good wrestling match, but unlike modern television, those matches weren't all the same with the same structures and the same high spots. 

You can watch a 1995 Nitro and get a good Cruiserweight match, a good Paul Orndorff semi-squash, and a fun John Tenta squash on the same show, for example. NWA Power is about the only thing that gets close to that type of variety for me, though MLW sometimes can fill that need. 

 

I agree, but there was a definite feeling of squandered potential when WCW would make these un-fan friendly booking goofs (Black Scorpion, excessive Dusty finishes, dumb marketing tie-ins, et al). This was fostered by the WON crowd who saw every misstep (as I did) as losing ground in the competition with the WWF, whose cartoony-ness could nabsorb such silliness, and who frankly made less stupid money- & fan-losing decisions.  Maybe it was the new increased behind the curtain narrative the smart fans were getting in real time for the first time in that pre-internet era, but the sense of WCW as the last bastion of "real"/"old school"/"serious"/"adult" (all constructs but all true in a way) US pro wrestling vs. McMahon's sports entertainment juggernaut made these missteps tragic. Of course now, as with all things, nostalgia make them warm and fuzzy, but there was plenty of vitriol directed at Herd, Watts, Rhodes, Anderson, Sullivan and such in the WON letter column.

yes there was a WON letter column, kids,

RAF

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3 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Even the bad stuff is sort of fun. Not like, Vince Russo's bad stuff, but Robocop and the Black Scorpion and even Ric Flair having to kiss Dusty Rhodes's ass. 

You know what I think is undervalued about WCW is that those shows had wrestling matches that were there for the sake of having a good wrestling match, but unlike modern television, those matches weren't all the same with the same structures and the same high spots. 

You can watch a 1995 Nitro and get a good Cruiserweight match, a good Paul Orndorff semi-squash, and a fun John Tenta squash on the same show, for example. NWA Power is about the only thing that gets close to that type of variety for me, though MLW sometimes can fill that need. 

 

pretty sure I shared the story of how I got into WCW but I think it's worth retelling.  I was a huge mark for the Million Dollar Man. I was 7 and loved this guy wearing a suit to the ring with $ symbols.  He was going to be wrestling Warrior in November 90 on the Main Event and I had asked my uncle to tape it. He taped WCW Clash from Nov 90 and part of the Main Event (tape ran out at Bossman-Perfect)  I was so pissed the tape ran out and knew nothing about WCW (again I was 7)  I immediately fell in love with Flyin Brian.  WWF didn;'t really have anyone like him. I thought Sting was cool, Paul E was an over the top announcer and again something you didn't see in WWF.  

The show was the lead in to Starrcade and the Black Scorpion-Sting feud.  Let me tell you, I never wanted to see a show so badly. I immediately became a WCW fan (not knowing my grandpa had already been one  and a huge Arn Anderson fan). People may hate the 90-91 WCW but to me it was my absolute favorite.  Hell to this day Sting, Pillman, Lex, Steiners, vs the horsemen is my favorite feud. 

WCW did a shit load wrong, but what they did right made me a huge fan and I never missed an episode. 

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Apparently for the Otis & Mandy 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' video for last week's Smackdown, WWE was wondering who they knew in Florida that had a pool they could film at. So they phoned up Matt Cardona and asked if they could borrow his.

He said no. Was quite insulted to be asked, strangely enough.

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2 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

I agree, but there was a definite feeling of squandered potential when WCW would make these un-fan friendly booking goofs (Black Scorpion, excessive Dusty finishes, dumb marketing tie-ins, et al). This was fostered by the WON crowd who saw every misstep (as I did) as losing ground in the competition with the WWF, whose cartoony-ness could nabsorb such silliness, and who frankly made less stupid money- & fan-losing decisions. 

I'd never claim that this stuff is good business, but it is certainly cheesy fun in retrospect. 

4 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

 

Stares at you in Hulk Hogan vs Dungeon Of Doom

IT'S NOT HOT alone is worth that whole angle. It's such good garbage. 

If you count the Horsemen aligning with the DoD as part of the angle, Hogan getting pulverized by high heels in running weeks was also great. Arn Anderson stole a win on Hulk Hogan via high heel. Now you tell me that the previous sentence isn't one of the best sentences ever written. 

Plus that cage match clusterfuck wraps back around to "so bad, it's good."

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2 minutes ago, AxB said:

Apparently for the Otis & Mandy 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' video for last week's Smackdown, WWE was wondering who they knew in Florida that had a pool they could film at. So they phoned up Matt Cardona and asked if they could borrow his.

He said no. Was quite insulted to be asked, strangely enough.

I’ve got to stop being surprised by these assholes. 

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3 minutes ago, AxB said:

Apparently for the Otis & Mandy 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' video for last week's Smackdown, WWE was wondering who they knew in Florida that had a pool they could film at. So they phoned up Matt Cardona and asked if they could borrow his.

He said no. Was quite insulted to be asked, strangely enough.

It is bullshit, but he should have countered with a year's salary.  And demanded it in advance.  

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41 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Anyone know if that Steve Austin confederate flag screenshot making the rounds is legit? 

It's a bootleg version of an Austin shirt.

 

 

Edited by cwoy2j
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13 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

It's a bootleg version of an Austin shirt.

 

 

I meant the screen shot of the comment people were passing around. But I didn't recognize the shirt either. 

The comment strikes me as being fake, as I struggle to imagine him all caps cutting a promo on that subject in the voice of his character. 

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I'd say the audio clip is pretty much not 100% not fake. And Booker T and Mark Henry have both said there's nothing racist about Austin, so... it could be real.

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4 minutes ago, AxB said:
I'd say the audio clip is pretty much not 100% not fake. And Booker T and Mark Henry have both said there's nothing racist about Austin, so... it could be real.

Yeah, I know the clip is real. And the attached screenshot of him not taking shit for wearing a mask is also real, saw that one a few weeks back. Not suggesting he's a racist. Just genuinely interested in the authenticity of the screenshot in question. It could be real, I'm just interested in finding out if anyone knows for sure. Mostly because someone's been texting me about it and I don't have answers. 

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1. I'm trying to do the admins a favor by staying out of shit like this especially because personally I was so fucking heated last week.

2. I dunno if I should be pulling for Steve Austin understanding the groundwork that chattel slavery was laid in the foundation of the United States. Part of me wants to love Austin for that if this is real, and the other part of me thinks its someone fucking around on the internet.

3. If this is real, when did Austin start believing this? From what I understand, Austin kinda grew up with a crotchety old man for a (step?)father. I don't believe his dad would instill this in him. It had to come from his football days or pro wrestling. I kinda doubt it would be the former because how integrated where early 1980s high school football teams in the small town Texas really? Maybe it was a little better when he went to college. I dunno. However, at the same time, Austin came into WCW either right after or just when they started to wrap up motherfuckers like the Southern Boys/Young Pistols and the Freebirds coming out with Confederate flags, stars and bars attire, the facepaint and Little Richard Marley. It was still a very southern pandering promotion in a lot of ways, which is funny that it took the Bill Watts Torch interview for them to really catch hell.

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Guest Edwin
14 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

1. I'm trying to do the admins a favor by staying out of shit like this especially because personally I was so fucking heated last week.

This.

I watch wrestling and try to visit this board to discuss wrestling and escape reality for a bit, but sometimes this board (specifically this thread every month) has to head down that direction and is of no help.

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32 minutes ago, Edwin said:

This.

I watch wrestling and try to visit this board to discuss wrestling and escape reality for a bit, but sometimes this board (specifically this thread every month) has to head down that direction and is of no help.

It's almost like the real world and wrestling are intertwined. 

I mean, they're talking about a post that is ostensibly from a wrestler. 

This is a business where someone was running a "Jan Brewer's Mexican-hating son" gimmick and a major company was running a "Tea Partiers" gimmick in a post-Obama's election world. 

*shrugs* I totally get the board's "don't talk about politics" policy, but politics permeate wrestling. You don't really have the privilege of ever escaping it. 

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2 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I'd never claim that this stuff is good business, but it is certainly cheesy fun in retrospect. 

IT'S NOT HOT alone is worth that whole angle. It's such good garbage. 

If you count the Horsemen aligning with the DoD as part of the angle, Hogan getting pulverized by high heels in running weeks was also great. Arn Anderson stole a win on Hulk Hogan via high heel. Now you tell me that the previous sentence isn't one of the best sentences ever written. 

Plus that cage match clusterfuck wraps back around to "so bad, it's good."

I agree with you all the way SMcU, I in no way was saying that because the missteps may have driven away customers (at worst) that is not worthy of watching, let alone enjoying. I was trying to put it into context what the mindset was for the newsletter crowd who were being influenced by Mr. Meltzer's opinions (of which I usually agree with) and to a lesser extent, your less smartened up fans. As I said, it was frustrating at the time but with the passage of time it is far easier to appreciate the mess.

Now, although there was much gold amidst the garbage of Bischoff-era WCW, I still cannot bring myself to enjoy it, as all I see is the utter needless destruction of a promotion.The earlier stuff we were referencing is fun, though. J-Tex Corporation! Once Hogan got there, WCW was dead to me...

- tragedy + time,

RAF

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