EL HIJO DEL SECRET SANTO: Match Club

[Matt D]

Secret Santo has more or less played itself out for now. We may go back to it at some point. In order to keep everyone sane as we get through this pandemic together, we are launching Phase II: Match Club. This is, I think, a little more inclusive with less obligation. 

Here's how it works:

• MATCHES: Two matches a week. Matches should be:
  • Less than 30 minutes (ideally less than 25)
  • Available on a free platform
  • Relatively inclusive for everyone. For instance, if you pick something with a lot of backstory, then please fill people in on what they need to know. If someone picks a fairly stylized lucha/shoot style/etc. match, everyone will work together to help those new to the style.
• Matches are chosen by us. If you want to choose a match, reply to this thread and let me know and I'll follow up with you with a PM. I think we'll be first come first serve because I don't think we'll have THAT much interest. I may be happily surprised and randomize. Try to pick something that everyone can talk about, something that'll draw some interest, something that you think everyone should see or see again, something you love or something you hate. You don't have to pick a holy grail here or a five star match. 
• I'll post two a week on Sunday morning based on what I've been sent. That means if we do get a high demand, it might be a bit until we get to your match, but we went through 10 weeks of Secret Santo really quickly, so time will fly here too.

• REVIEWS: There aren't real rules on how you review them.
  • Whoever gets in first can go as in depth or not in depth as they want. I'd suggest if you get in first, you raise some questions for everyone else, but it's not mandatory. Since we're doing two matches in one thread each week, make sure to mention the match you're talking about. If this gets huge, we can take over part of the board with pitchforks or run multiple threads, but I don't think it will be.
  • Likewise, those that follow can engage with the reviews already laid down while also listing their general thoughts or just do their own thing. I'd like to see some dialogues back and forth on this with the initial reviewers re-engaging but we'll see how it plays out.
  • Anyone on the board can post a review/thoughts/facts/info/opinions/whatever whether they've submitted a match or gotten into the queue or were part of Secret Santo 1. You can review one of the matches instead of two. You can review one match and then never do anything again. You can have never done anything before and jump in to review. No obligations. 
• If it's obvious that two matches a week are too many, we'll go down to one. If it's obvious this isn't working we'll Nieto it and go back to picking matches for each other. 

I'm up for any thoughts on the above. 

Otherwise, start replying that you're interested and I'll reach out to you to start to gather matches.

[AxB]

I'm in. Might have a match pick for week one if nobody else is desperate.

Also I'll post my French Catch review in the old Secret Santo thread tonight.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

If you would be so kind, please let me throw up a match this week as a farewell to the project. I've got a pretty good one.

[Godfrey]

I'm in. I don't have a specific match in mind but I've been watching all kinds of great stuff these days.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

I'll gladly share some matches too be palate cleansing.  You know. Supercop Dick justice vs Joey Ryan type things.

[SirSmUgly]

This seems like a cool idea. I'll be overloaded with work for a few weeks, but I'll probably jump in toward mid-to-late June if this is still going on.

[Lamp, broken circa 1988]

I would like to participate in this as well and I already know what I'd put up for mine

[Matt D]

Six people gets us 3 weeks and that's not too bad. One more if you count me. If people want to keep putting their names on the list, that's good too. Let's see how this goes.

Week 1:

Gordi gives us:

AxB gives us:

If I've seen the RWTL match, it's not been for a while. Mil, like Brody, could be better against people who were paying him, so we'll see. I have literally no idea what a Gene Munny or Chris Brookes is. Or Resurgence Championship. Regardless, it feels like a pretty good variety for week 1. 

So watch, review, engage, enjoy.

[Godfrey]

Chris Brookes vs Gene Munny

Brookes I know from ROH, Munny is a new one to me but he enters to Baker Street and takes off his anti-chafing nipple tape early to let you know he's serious so I'm down for this dude. Some rough stuff to start like when Chris comes in with a cartwheel worthy of four year old but they chop the shit out of each other and Munny's trash talk while they do it is pretty funny. They fight through the lounge to the picnic tables outside so Brookes can try to get a count out victory even though that wouldn't win him the belt and my girlfriend marvels at the state of the bar because she's never been to the Midlands before. Munny uses a sit-out Mountain Bomb that's pretty rad and gets dangerously close to crashing on some highspots. A moral drama around the use of baking sheet (to tie back to Baker Street?) leads to the finish. Great example of the indie wrestling classic of a defending local champ and the evil outsider, it always works. Enjoyable match but Brookes looked like he was half-assing things. Munny has personality for sure, I think he could make a go of things with some refinement and I'll be keeping an eye out for him.

[AxB]

The thing is, Gene Munny is basically a comedy wrestler. Hence the nickname of Sexual Gammon (nb: 'Gammon' is not only a type of salted pork, but it's also a pejorative term for a red-faced middle aged bigoted racist Brexiteer type in the UK), and the ridiculously high-waisted trunks. This is one of his few serious matches.

 

[tbarrie]

The theme of week one appears to be "tiny rings".

[Godfrey]

15 hours ago, AxB said:

The thing is, Gene Munny is basically a comedy wrestler. Hence the nickname of Sexual Gammon (nb: 'Gammon' is not only a type of salted pork, but it's also a pejorative term for a red-faced middle aged bigoted racist Brexiteer type in the UK), and the ridiculously high-waisted trunks. This is one of his few serious matches.

 

That makes sense, he seemed fairly comical but I didn’t want to judge. That said, he has his charm and a solid right hand, I’ve seen wrestlers make a career out of less.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

That Resurgence Ring is tiny.

[Beech27]

I'd like to jump in.

Dos Caras & Mil Mascaras vs Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta

I'm glad the entrances and pre-match pageantry were included--and not just because the spectacle was great to see--but because the crowd is so stoked on who is there and what is happening that you can't help but be present with them. You're easily able to watch the match that happens, and push context--all you know or think about the famous names involved--to the periphery. It helps you to see the story that's told, and to engage without excessive metatextual elements.

In this case, I think the match is really easy to follow. Jumbo is big (hence... you know) and strong, and technically capable, but he gets consistently outclassed by Dos and Mil's quickness and technical ability. He's still able to get some offense in, but it's fleeting for the most part. 

It's not until Baba gets involved that the Japanese team are able to control the match--and even then, it doesn't last long. This isn't just due to Jumbo's youth, though--they also decline a couple opportunities at a double team, which the luchadores accept. 

This turns out to be crucial. There are a series of quick tags, and Jumbo is knocked down by a double team dropkick, and then a succession of flying cross chops. He's still able to get a shoulder up, though. And I want to point out here, his leg isn't hooked on these attempts. Jumbo is, however, finally about to be pinned after a double team leading to a top-rope crossbody--but Baba breaks it up. This feels absolutely earned, since the luchadores gained the advantage with double team offense, which Baba refused earlier. 

Mil still isn't happy about it though, and he rushes in. He and Baba brawl in the corner, while Dos goes for another crossbody in the corner--only Jumbo moves, and Dos hits his head on the post. Given a slight opening, Jumbo hits a quick body press, emphatically hooks the leg, and manages to force a pinfall.

The takeaway, then, is that Jumbo--who spent the match being big and strong, but a step behind--finds a way to meld his strength with perfect technique when given a moment's advantage. That is, he's not just young and talented, he learns on the fly. This match is a great showcase for him, and you absolutely want to see the trajectory his career takes.

And, if I allow myself some perspective, I can't help but be reminded of Misawa's first pin on Jumbo, years later.  

Edited June 1, 2020 by Beech27

[Super Ape]

Fuck it, I'm back.

Same tastes as in the old thread apply. No WWE or its present affiliates.

[Curt McGirt]

I walk away for one or two days...

Anyway, I'm down. 

[Matt D]

Work's been nuts, but I'm glad people are digging in. 

Mil/Dos vs Baba/Jumbo:

Very interesting RWTL match, bolstered by a hot crowd, the size mismatch, and the fact that Jumbo and Baba were both able to utilize some offense they wouldn't normally, and the fact that they were generally game. Mil was aggressive but cooperative, fighting the most against Baba, who actually let him take him down on an equal struggle. The early chain wrestling with Dos and Jumbo was better technically and probably the real best part of the match but you couldn't look away from Mil trying to bully Baba. It's fascinating how differently Baba and Inoki developed. There was no one in AJPW that was more giving than Baba except for Terry Funk and that's, in part, why they both got over, that contrast where these two champions could sell and give because they were confident enough to do so. 

The general problem I have with 70s-80s AJPW tags is that they're usually nebulous with a lot of back and forth and not a lot of narrative. There can be struggle in the moment or momentum shifts but none of the easy build and payoff of hot tags and lengthy stories that you'd get with southern tags or even contemporaneous NJPW tags. Here, however, the brevity and size differential helped things. It got a little back and forth towards the middle, but they were almost trapped in a story given the mismatch, which isn't a terrible place to be. I'm not an execution guy but some of the double teams by Mil and Dos felt strangely off. They went for a double shoulder block which was kind of baffling and the double dropkick wasn't great either. The finish had me for a second, as I almost thought (because of the tag league structure) they might actually get the win. I thought it protected Dos very well as he had the press and basically took himself out at the end. 

That said, I didn't quite find the same level of narrative storytelling that @Beech27 did (though I think the unique sequencing of "Dos vs Jumbo > Mil vs Jumbo > Baba tagging in" is undeniable), but I'm glad it resonated with him so much. 

[Godfrey]

I've yet to wade into the deep waters of old school lucha so my knowledge is limited but is the general consensus Dos Caras > Mil Mascaras?

[Matt D]

57 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

I've yet to wade into the deep waters of old school lucha so my knowledge is limited but is the general consensus Dos Caras > Mil Mascaras?

General consensus is tough here. With the people I engage with that have watched a lot of footage, it's pretty clear. In 2020, as we try to make sense of things like in-ring comparisons, a lot of what we have to rely on is footage. In general, I'd suggest not trusting anyone who talks about in-ring quality based on anything BUT footage. Because of that, Mil is much more of a US/Japan presence than a Mexican one for us. Mil was the superstar and Dos Caras was his supporting cast member. A lot of my major issues with Mil is that he could be uncooperative and sort of used his powers for himself and not for the good of the match. Now, to do so means that he had a talent and skills and a good working knowledge of wrestling. It just doesn't make for good matches a lot of the times. Dos Caras, on the other hand was always game, hard-working, and somewhat less reliant on trademark spots relative to a wider variety. Past that, YMMV to a degree. 70s Mil is better than 80s Mil. The Destroyer matches are undeniable. But you're much more likely to get a good Dos Caras performance than a good Mil one.

[Curt McGirt]

Match felt a little flat to me. It was good to see Caras though and Mil actually came to work unlike all the other times I've saw him. It was a trip seeing Jumbo doing a headstand too. Baba did next to nothing, and I imagine this is what most of his '80s and '90s looked like; all I've seen so far is the early stuff of his. The crowd was really loving this though, and even had a horn going in the crowd, which is odd for Japan. 

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Match felt a little flat to me. It was good to see Caras though and Mil actually came to work unlike all the other times I've saw him. It was a trip seeing Jumbo doing a headstand too. Baba did next to nothing, and I imagine this is what most of his '80s and '90s looked like; all I've seen so far is the early stuff of his. The crowd was really loving this though, and even had a horn going in the crowd, which is odd for Japan. 

At one point during that headstand exchange they both got a fist up and I thought for a second they were going to transition it into the spot where they punch each other in the face awkwardly while trapped in a headstand which can be awesome or terrible depending on the execution. It still did escalate after that with a Jumbo forearm and the knee.

[Curt McGirt]

Yeah I was totally expecting the slapping of faces to commence. I guess because it was face vs. face they decided not to though.

[tbarrie]

Context question: was Jumbo already a legend when this match took place? He looks pretty young to me, but I don't know what year the match is from.

[Curt McGirt]

'79. So not quite there yet. 

[Matt D]

Chris Brookes vs Gene Munny 

Wait, there's still wrestling in 2020?

I liked the pacing early on here. You had a pretty good sense of the characters from the pre-match and opening moments. Munny is a sort of jolly perversion (he initially came off like a BSDM yacht rock deviant, sexually harassing everyone equally). He had a Sandman or Crusher vibe, that eccentric but dangerous tough local hero thing. Brookes is the super serious smarmy type dude. I liked the opening feeling out chain wrestling well enough. They eased into things with Brookes generally superior but Munny clever and opportunist. There were moments where the struggle wasn't there so that Brookes could do an extra twist or spin in a way that you really wouldn't have seen thirty or forty years ago. When they started picking up the pace, things got a little wonky with an ill-advised (because he could barely do it) handspring into the corner by Brookes and a totally unnecessary inverted senton thing by Munny. After some serviceable back and forth floor chopping, the transition was right out of 1987 with the manager interference and worked very well. I liked how Brookes used the outside early in his heat, with most of his offense interesting but still organic. The way he set up the stomp on the arm on the apron was really smooth, for instance. The comeback being centered around a wet willy fit the moment, I guess? It was immediately followed by a lot of very credible offense by Munny (great punch, the Stinger Splashes, the cradle suplex).

My concern, however, in the moment at this point was that we had the comeback with about 15 minutes back into the video. My brain immediately went: "Unless there's a long post-match, or this is going into a second bit of heat, this is going to be an excruciating finishing stretch." And it wasn't that bad really. I'm not sure the selling after the top rope move at the start of it really made sense. That should have happened later on maybe. The backbreaker off the apron was ridiculous. A self bump. I liked the call-back spots though, the blocked cutter, the initial missed moonsault, the j-driver attempts, etc. There was a smaller narrative of Brookes having more of an advantage that led to a minor comeback that did help structure things. Too long though. All of the BS in the end was okay solely because of the finish: I though the ref bump was cleverly done, though her recovery was too timely to be believable. A lot of times it's better to have that slow recovery to both protect the move and to build up anticipation as opposed to try to trick the fans with a quick one. The ultimately finish felt like something with would have gotten overturned in the 80s in a classic Dusty finish. So long as it didn't, it sort of validates all the BS like I said. I don't know. There was a lot of good stuff here. They could have dropped some of the goofier bits of offense (they didn't need it). They could have cut a couple of minutes off the finishing stretch. They could have easily shifted a bit more time into Brookes' being in control with all of the fun stuff on the outside. 

Like @Godfrey, I think Munny had the better performance here, but I'm not convinced this isn't the best place for him. He seems like a guy who could be on these cards in front of this crowd for years.