AEW Dynamite - 5/20/2020

[odessasteps]

48 minutes ago, EVA said:

I think some people have been itching to criticize Cody for putting himself over and booking like his dad since the company was announced.  They tend to see what they want to see in the booking.

I think this Is true of both the pro and anti Cody people (speaking as one of the latter).

[Technico Support]

If every babyface starts mentioning Cody in completely unrelated promos, then we'll know for sure

[Craig H]

BTW, after what happened to TK O'Ryan in ROH and after what nearly happened to some top AEW guys early on with all of the dives to the smaller ringside area, I figured we would see that shit toned down. Instead last night they ramped it up to 11. Fenix nearly killed himself again and went splat. OC nearly had the same thing happen to him that happened to O'Ryan. Colt nearly fucked himself up too.

Look. That ringside area is too fucking small for that shit ESPECIALLY IF NO ONE IS EVEN BOTHERING TO CATCH. It just reminds me of a Chuck Taylor tweet from a few years ago. I think it was during a WK, but it was something along the lines of just needing to appreciate a certain wrestler because it's clear they're never going to try to catch anyone. He since deleted the tweet and I can't remember who he was talking about, but it was fucking hilarious then and it's all I think of when I don't see anyone catching.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

8 hours ago, Technico Support said:

 

Has Nyla Rose had any defenses yet?  I honestly can't remember. 

Nyla defended against Kris Statlander @ Revolution.

[Curt McGirt]

Maybe they watched Sammy survive the golf cart bump and thought that everybody could fly and was impervious to bullets all of the sudden

[EVA]

In fairness to the guys doing the catching, it initially looked like Fenix was going long on that dive, but when he tucked his head, he lost all his momentum and basically fell straight out of the sky like a wounded duck.  That probably played a factor.

Still, I have no idea why all 4 guys lined up side by side like a picket fence and just stood there and watched.

[Elsalvajeloco]

16 minutes ago, EVA said:

In fairness to the guys doing the catching, it initially looked like Fenix was going long on that dive, but when he tucked his head, he lost all his momentum and basically fell straight out of the sky like a wounded duck.  That probably played a factor.

Still, I have no idea why all 4 guys lined up side by side like a picket fence and just stood there and watched.

And it's not like those dudes are green. How long have all of those dudes been in pro wrestling?

That was bad.

 

[Kang]

AEW: 701,000 NXT: 592,000

[Casey]

To add to that - AEW was 7th in the 18-49 demo, NXT was 53rd.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

8 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

a. This Cody political conspiracy against Mox talk is a ridiculous stretch.            
b. I would have loved to have seen Sammy defeat Hardy, but it's not like the loss hurts him.  They wanted to make the Elite look stronger going into the match.  And that's fine.  
c. Brodie Lee having some minor miscues on the mic does not need to be treated as a termination sentence.  I don't read taking inspiration from VKM for his character as lazy, but then I also feel like he's been an excellent contributor from the get go.    
d. I agree on the Jurassic Express, but I also get the impression that Luchasaurus' leg is in brittle condition. 
e. MJF has continued to be featured.  He was treated like a big star return and has a potentially beneficial PPV match.   

The Cody conspiracy is catching on.  

a. Moxley is a loner.  That's why he feels separate.  His angles and matches are given plenty of time and importance.  Feels silly to point out the obvious.  
b. Cody's truck bit failed and was so bad it was funny.  The brawl that followed however was good.  So what ppl make mistakes.    
c. The 'I Can't challenge for the belt' stip should have some benefit and meaning.  That's not what I would call foul play.  Fans feel like he's a top guy because he is a top guy.  Suggesting that this undermines Moxley is thin.  I'm not sure exactly how this would impede on Moxley, and if it does perhaps he shouldn't be in the position he is.  
d. One of the great pieces of the early AEW puzzle of success is all the selflessness from the top down and interest in bringing guys up to a higher level.  Cody's work has been no exception.  And yeah, he should be going over and pushed.  He's one of their biggest stars.  

a. Absolutely.  The Lee thread burial going on in here is ridiculous.  Maybe some new gear would be nice, but repackage him?  Repackage Uno and Grayson?  No way.  Long live the Dark Order.
b. Also, Lee walking off and sacrificing 10 was fantastic!
c. Everything about the dive fest felt a bit off.  Including the low cameras awkwardly right in the face of everybody.  That was a mess.  
d. I agree completely on OC.  I love him and have loved him from the beginning.  He's money.  His comeback during the Fenix match reminded me of Hogan for a sec in the best sense.  It was like I could hear a crowd losing it for him.  

Do I think it's personal? Not at all. I just think Cody has deliberately given him a dog of a title reign whilst positioning his own programs as being far more important. There's no Bret/Shawn subtext to it, so much as we're hammered over the head who the real top guy is.

I suspect even if Moxley gets paired with MJF instead of nothing feuds with the #2 guy in the Inner Circle and Brodie Lee, the amount of air time and where their stuff is positioned during the show remains the same.

Whilst what you say makes sense about his character being a loner and he should be off somewhere else, it's still not befitting of the title. Everyone should be lining up to want a shot at him, especially in the context of going from Jericho feuding with 2/3 of the roster, to Moxley having his weekly 10 minute segment and is forgotten about for the rest of the show. Austin was a huge loner, but I can't imagine him in 1998, turning up, beating Val Venis in a 10 minute opening match, and then not being seen for the rest of Raw.

I feel like the loss hurt him only for how ordinary Matt looked in-ring. At this point, he looks far closer to X-Pac to HHH in 99, than he does HHH to Shawn in 98. There was an opportunity missed, and if anything it would have helped the narrative of The Elite needing to overcome the odds, after being beat up week after week by The Numbers Game, only for Page/Bucks return to turn the tide.

MJF continues to be featured, agreed, he wins a lot, but where is it going to? I'm open to the idea of the MJF/Mox program, but not particularly convinced for in-ring stuff.

Bringing guys up to a higher level - agree it's been the intent, but a few months in, fairly minimal has been achieved from a consistent basis. Like you say - COVID related in a lot of cases. Others have had a few weeks doing stuff, and are now just sitting around in the crowd cheering aimlessly. It's been awesome seeing Jungle Boy, Scorpio Sky, Darby, etc get their shot, and now they're JAG. WWE get excoriated for this on a weekly basis.
 

 

[caley]

17 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Also, dug the creative Spears promo.  Well executed but not so sure I need to see him battle it out with Dustin. 
 

I'm sorry but "creative"?  This was the Randy Orton RNN promos (Right down to the name) with shoot-y comments thrown in about Dustin's battles with drug addiction.  I think people, in general, have been too hard on Spears throughout this thing (I actually think he's added a lot to the broadcasts as of late in a spectator role) but this was among the worst shit AEW has done.  To each their own, but this was terrible.

9 hours ago, Technico Support said:

After criticizing him pretty consistently, I feel like I need to commend Jim Ross this week for, as far as I can tell, not saying anything awful, dumb, or detrimental to the show.

Also, I'm loving the idea of Spears being the Beefcake to Cody's Hogan.

He was better until his weird overly defensive discussion of Nyla's weight that clearly was borne of him having read/made aware of some online criticism over his recent comments "My data says Nyla is 195 and I think that might be a bit generous"Well you can be the one to ask her, JR!" "I will, she is an athlete after all!"  It was really defensive and kinda childish-sounding.

8 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

Brodie Lee's promo style reminds me of Joel Gertner (not necessarily the content).  Just his style of delivery. 

AEW needs to hire a wardrobe department and stop letting the wrestlers dress themselves. 

Now, all I can imagine is Brodie Lee delivering Gertner monologues and I really want to see that!

7 hours ago, Peck said:

I may be the only one who thinks this, but I find the Ross/Schiavone dynamic of old-guys-busting-each-others-balls pretty entertaining. Like a modern day Matthau/Lemmon. 

I loved the part when they were talking about Statlander's boop and JR getting Excalibur to explain it to him (Which I believe is the second time that has happened in the last few months) and Excalibur saying "Tony got booped", to which JR replied "Yeah but that was many moons ago" and then there was this loooooong pause before Schiavone said "It was."  And you could hear them all smiling as they joked about it.
*****

I HATED this show.  It's the first time watching it that I found myself leaning on the fast-foward a few times.

-Jon Moxley-10 was whatever.  The execution of this whole angle sucked, though.  Brodie coming out with a rambling listless promo and then leaves, following showing that Moxley was just standing in the parking lot waiting to come in, so why didn't he come after his title or Lee?  It made it look like he was scared of Brodie that he waited until after they left before he came out.  Brodie's post-match promo was worse.  Moxley watching them leave was sorta silly, too.  
-MJF-Stunt was solid.  But the post-match with Wardlow casually strolling out of the ring while Luchasaurus stops and watches him leave was up their with Mark Henry outrunning Nexus for boneheaded babyface moves.
-Jake-Arn was not good.  I think they should have brought out some notes because a couple of responses seemed to be to statements that weren't being made.   Jake brought up Brandi and it seemed like Arn was answering that but ended up somewhere completely different.  Plus, it really did nothing to build to Cody-Archer, more to a battle of two guys who can't wrestle anymore.
-The Darby segment was awesome, and exactly what Darby should be doing all the time, instead of getting lectured by Tazz
-Pac's promo was good.
-Cassidy-Fenix was pretty good, until they turned to the WWE playbook of a distraction finish.  The post-match stuff was odd.  Guys coming out to do dives was just as bad as the WWE Royal Rumble builds where wrestlers inexplicably come out to dump each other out of the ring to promote the match.  That Fenix dive was terrifying, there were a lot of aliigator arms out there.
-Women's Match was UGLY.  There were so many blown spots and spots where they clearly forgot the script and didn't know what to do.  Suplexing Nyla onto Britt's leg was the cherry on top of a shit sundae.
-I complained about Shawn Spears RNN promo above.
-By the time the main rolled around I wasn't even paying attention.  It's good that AEW is the alternative to WWE where old wrestlers don't come in and get legacy victories over younger, hungrier talented wrestlers who need the victories...
-I liked the post-match brawl, but I hate those plastic baseball shots.  They were dumb when it was Sting, they were dumb when it was in every Vince Russo-booked match in 2000 WCW, they've always been dumb.  Chris Jericho fullspeed swinging a baseball bat into Kenny Omega's stomach, then Omega up fighting minutes later is just supreme silliness.  Adam Pages return was great, even though his outfit looked like he was the night manager at a Country and Western bar (Baron Corbin was the busboy there until he graduated to his current look).

[Casey]

If it's anyone burying Jon Moxley's title reign, it would be Tony Khan, since he's by and large the one that's booking everything now with input from the talent on the programs he schedules for them.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Jon Moxley wasn’t available for TV for weeks on end. Lance Archer, and Cody were though for the past two months since the pandemic issues started. Of course they’ve been showcased more. Only Kenny, Sammy, and Jericho were available for the multi-men feud. Cody Vs. Archer was planned for this month, and if they are the only ones available for a proper angle, then you use them, especially if one is a part of your star squad. Say what you want, but even during the crisis they are patient when it comes to delivering on matches, and very protective about giving them away so soon. You guys act like Jon Moxley Vs. Jake Hager wasn’t promoted heavily. Sure Hager isn’t the best opponent, but they wanted Moxley to have a defense on TV, and he was the most appropriate on paper, as well as available to do it with. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Flair’s Shadow]

I need to apologize...I was wrong.

I have received new information.

The details have been clarified.

Okada is not in country. Okada is not the Mystery Man. 
 

I repeat, Okada is not the Mystery Man.

 

I have been told by a source...we will call him...Horsemen’s Shadow..the following:

 

*MJK gets pinned by Jungle Boy after Wardlow accidentally hits/costs MJF the match. MJF yells at Wardlow..etc.

*Wardlow is announced as the Mystery Man and wins the Casino Chip.

*MJF is shocked and angry at Wardlow for not telling him he was entered into the latter match. 
 

This all leads to Wardlow turning face as AEW seems him as a young huge massive face star at the level of what Hangman Page is now becoming. MJF, with Tully, Arn, FTR and eventually Tessa Blanchard...eventually beat down Wardlow in the not so distant future. AEW needed one of their big boys to turn face and Wardlow is the right guy.

The source of the info..”Horsemen’s Shadow” has convince me 100% Wardlow is the Mystery Man for Saturday night.

 

Again...I apologize for the Okada steam...it’s too early. Not yet. Not yet. 
 

My bad. 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Flair’s Shadow

[AxB]

Jeff Cobb. To be managed by Taz, and feud with Darby.

[Curt McGirt]

Well, I bet Jeff and Tazzzzzzzzz are the same height at least.

[Just Dave]

I was watching a Mox interview this morning and it sure sounded to me like he alluded to being in the Blood & Guts match somehow. Idk how, but that would've made sense.

[AxB]

So running an Falls Count Anywhere match in an empty Football Stadium, is that just TK flexing his wealth, or is it partly a rib on Vince, that 2020 will end with only one US promotion running a Stadium show all year, and it's not his? Because in terms of the looks of the shows, Daily's Place (even empty) does seem a bit nicer than the Performance Centre rehearsal room. But if you think of Orton vs Edge at Mania as a "Look at how much cool stuff I've got in this building" spectacle, I'm guessing the non-playing field bits of an NFL stadium are a lot more impressive.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Jon Moxley wasn’t available for TV for weeks on end. Lance Archer, and Cody were though for the past two months since the pandemic issues started. Of course they’ve been showcased more. Only Kenny, Sammy, and Jericho were available for the multi-men feud. Cody Vs. Archer was planned for this month, and if they are the only ones available for a proper angle, then you use them, especially if one is a part of your star squad. Say what you want, but even during the crisis they are patient when it comes to delivering on matches, and very protective about giving them away so soon. You guys act like Jon Moxley Vs. Jake Hager wasn’t promoted heavily. Sure Hager isn’t the best opponent, but they wanted Moxley to have a defense on TV, and he was the most appropriate on paper, as well as available to do it with. 

Reasonable points - but I remain unconvinced that even with everyone being available and business as usual, that any of the Moxley programs (either what eventuated or hypothethical) are given bigger emphasis or more TV time than Cody/Archer.

[Peck]

1 hour ago, Flair’s Shadow said:

Again...I apologize for the Okada steam...it’s too early. Not yet. Not yet. 
 

My bad. 

 

Please don't apologize. We all need you in our lives way more than you need us. Peck knows.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I'll throw up a sidebar here:
 

Can anyone think of a time where the main feud/storyline/top billing match in a promotion has been around something other than the top title in the promotion and:

a) it was the right decision AND

b) it didn't devalue the title/champion in the process?

Offhand - maybe Bret/Austin, and that was probably more an indication of where the title was at in 1997 being bounced around/forfeited/etc.

[Wyld Samurai]

Was anyone caught in that diving medley with everyone in the ladder match preview? I want to say Fenix, Cabana, and Cassidy all ate it doing their flippity floppity.

[EVA]

When Cabana ran in, I was struck by a vision of him bellyflopping on poor Rey Fenix, to add insult to injury.  Thankfully, it didn’t happen, but just barely.

[Elsalvajeloco]

21 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

I'll throw up a sidebar here:
 

Can anyone think of a time where the main feud/storyline/top billing match in a promotion has been around something other than the top title in the promotion and:

a) it was the right decision AND

b) it didn't devalue the title/champion in the process?

Offhand - maybe Bret/Austin, and that was probably more an indication of where the title was at in 1997 being bounced around/forfeited/etc.

I would say the Savage/Flair hot potato into The Giant's title reign was boosted by the NWO birth mostly because the belt was ultimately headed back to Hogan anyway. Credit where credit is due. They didn't really treat Giant as an afterthought at the beginning. It was about everyone putting their differences aside to stop this new enemy. They kept introducing new elements into the fold. In very short order, it went from "well as long as they don't have control of the belt" to "oh shit, this damn traitor has our world title". If doesn't work nearly as well if Hogan starts as champion.

[matt925]

3 hours ago, AxB said:

So running an Falls Count Anywhere match in an empty Football Stadium, is that just TK flexing his wealth, or is it partly a rib on Vince, that 2020 will end with only one US promotion running a Stadium show all year, and it's not his? Because in terms of the looks of the shows, Daily's Place (even empty) does seem a bit nicer than the Performance Centre rehearsal room. But if you think of Orton vs Edge at Mania as a "Look at how much cool stuff I've got in this building" spectacle, I'm guessing the non-playing field bits of an NFL stadium are a lot more impressive.

I didn’t think about this until it hit me last night. They’re gonna do what Vince wasn’t able to. I’m sure it will be a spectacle and I’m curious if the stadium and Tyson will get them a tiny bit of mainstream attention.