AEW Double or Nothing II - 5/23/2020

[HarryArchieGus]

20 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I thought it was great that Bugsy McGraw could make it as well but then I noticed that it was the Butcher.   Plus I am not sure if McGraw is still alive

Butcher looked great in his Aladdin Sane T-Shirt.  He has one of the best and most unique vintage looks in wrestling right now.        

17 minutes ago, eikerir said:

How has no one mentioned OC asking the commentators “how do you win this match again?”. That got the biggest laugh of the night from me.

Dug that too.  I do feel like OC would benefit from being a bit more stoic in his reactions.  He seemed a bit more animated than necessary last night.  I also had a tough time with him being unsure how to open ladders.  Excalibur tried to save it on commentary talking about his laziness rather than stupidity.  But it looked as it looked.

22 minutes ago, EVA said:

Yeah, I’m not getting the “fake laughing” criticism.  Tony is genuinely delighted by everything these days, and Excalibur pretty much made his name in commentary by being loose and calling silly matches like this.  It didn’t at all sound like Big Tony was screaming LAUGH GODDAMMIT in their ears.

Didn't seem genuine.  Seemed to me like they were trying to tell their audience what was funny.  Perhaps it's moreso because I found a lot of what happened unfunny and unappealing in any physical sort of way.  That said, Hager-Page/Omega bar portion was as good for me as the entire match was for everyone else.  No surprise that Page would be the highlight.

Reading this thread, I'm convinced to give a bunch of stuff another look.  Including this highly praised Stampede.    

Edited May 24, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[odessasteps]

17 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I thought it was great that Bugsy McGraw could make it as well but then I noticed that it was the Butcher.   Plus I am not sure if McGraw is still alive

 

Still alive 

[eikerir]

I feel AEW commentary is pretty good about not pushing stuff as hilarious when it clearly isn’t, overall they all come off as pretty genuine. Hell you can even tell when JR is sitting there in shock when something is way too stupid for him.

Edited May 24, 2020 by eikerir

[hammerva]

While I did love the match, I still would have rather seen what AEW would have done with the War Games match.  granted it wouldn't have been as entertaining but damn sure would have been more violent

 

[EVA]

Regarding Okada:  According to my sources, he worked the show under a hood.

 

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

18 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Dug that too.  I do feel like OC would benefit from being a bit more stoic in his reactions.  He seemed a bit more animated than necessary last night.  I also had a tough time with him being unsure how to open ladders.  Excalibur tried to save it on commentary talking about his laziness rather than stupidity.  But it looked as it looked.

You can't have a ladder match in wrestling without a couple spots where the participants stupidly forget how ladders and things on hooks work.  It's a rule.  
 

It''s a win if the match doesn't include a spot where the guy on the ladder with no one else even near him doesn't suddenly forget how feet work.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[LoneWolf&Subs]

25 minutes ago, EVA said:

Regarding Okada:  According to my sources, he worked the show under a hood.

 

You can see Okada kicking back at him to tell him he got concussed. Why isn’t that move band already after what happened 1000’s of years ago?

[Web Conn]

16 hours ago, Hail Sabin said:

I thought I saw Johnny Swinger in the crowd on the Heel side but it's Pepper Parks aka the Blade wearing a Swinger like Singlet. 

Me too. Hand to God. I was like is that Johnny Swinger? But it wasn’t.

[Bryan]

3 hours ago, Godfrey said:

I was into Mox/Lee more than I thought I’d be. It turns out the Dark Order stuff did nothing to build to a pretty good title match, I’d like to see them run it back with a more serious Brodie further down the road. I was also big into Shida/Rose and MJF/Jungleboy, not as much Cody/Archer but they pulled that one out too. A really good night of wrestling, all things considered, and that can be tough these days especially if you’re asking more dollars for it but I got my money’s worth.

I can’t say I’m that into Brian Cage. I watched him on Impact and Lucha Underground and he never piqued my interest but I’m willing to see what he can do as a challenger. That’s two challengers in a row that we’re recent debuts, kind of throws the rankings out the window so it better be MJF or someone else who’s been working hard the past year to get a shot.

Brodie Lee was in the top 5 of their rankings because he was undefeated since his debut in March.

And Cody who was ahead of him can’t ever wrestle for the title again. So him getting a title shot was consistent with their rankings.

Cage won a match for a title shot but they said it wasn’t taking place until Fyter Fest. So they have time to introduce him as a threat and build him up before that match.

[Godfrey]

6 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Brodie Lee was in the top 5 of their rankings because he was undefeated since his debut in March.

And Cody who was ahead of him can’t ever wrestle for the title again. So him getting a title shot was consistent with their rankings.

Cage won a match for a title shot but they said it wasn’t taking place until Fyter Fest. So they have time to introduce him as a threat and build him up before that match.

Thanks, I got all that. My point is that the trend of pushing new signings straight to a world title shot takes away from the idea that you’re supposed to earn it. Sure, Brodie was undefeated but MJF is still undefeated in AEW and has been there since the beginning. And Cage gets a title shot after one match in the company? Boo-urns. If they’re going to wait 4 months to have the match he could’ve gotten there organically anyway. 

[Godfrey]

At least they don’t have to worry about confusing which is the top belt.

[Jiji]

How can you not like the NWA TV title? Will the TNT logo be the bit that is gold? All of their belt designs are really great. None are like top 3 status but that's okay. 

[EVA]

I felt like the casino ladder match was kind of a mixed bag, but it was way better than either of the casino battle royale matches, which they never seemed to figure out how to make work.  I liked that the Rumble-style entry system created opportunities for guys to shine without everybody needing to take a bunch of hellacious ladder bumps.  I’m sure the guys in the match liked it, too. At the same time, though, that format created some issues.  In the Rumble, if you run through all the planned spots with time left on the clock, you can just go to the ropes and do elimination teases.  Last night, you ran into some issues where guys ran through all the planned spots and didn’t know what to do until the next entrant.  

At one point, Scorpio Sky was in the ring alone with the ladder set up under the chip....but then just stood around, waiting for Darby’s music to hit instead of climbing...and then started taking the ladder down while Darby was walking—not running—to the ring?  Weird stuff like that needs to get ironed out.

I kinda groaned when they started giving Cage the Lesnar treatment (bullies everyone, then gets taken out at ringside for most of the match), but then they just kept adding shit to the pile on top of him and taking bumps on the pile and it kind of turned me around on it, over the course of the match.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

37 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Thanks, I got all that. My point is that the trend of pushing new signings straight to a world title shot takes away from the idea that you’re supposed to earn it. Sure, Brodie was undefeated but MJF is still undefeated in AEW and has been there since the beginning. And Cage gets a title shot after one match in the company? Boo-urns. If they’re going to wait 4 months to have the match he could’ve gotten there organically anyway. 

I thought the whole point of the "Casino" ladder match is that you "hit the jackpot" of winning a title match without properly climbing the rankings. Like MITB, just that one time a year gimmick. 

That being said: Cage gave me the Benoit-jeebies a little with the facials on the ramp. It's a great look! 

 

 

[MavsFan77]

54 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Thanks, I got all that. My point is that the trend of pushing new signings straight to a world title shot takes away from the idea that you’re supposed to earn it. Sure, Brodie was undefeated but MJF is still undefeated in AEW and has been there since the beginning. And Cage gets a title shot after one match in the company? Boo-urns. If they’re going to wait 4 months to have the match he could’ve gotten there organically anyway. 

The match Cage has is next month. Unless something has changed from the original plans Fyter Fest is in June. 

Which means All Out will most likely be MJF vs Moxley as that’s not until September. 

[RRR]

6 hours ago, MADCAP said:

 

I’m shocked the AEW’s woke crowd hasn’t said a peep about this insensitive spot. 

Please tell me this is sarcasm. 

[John E. Dynamite]

First two matches were rough - for a little bit there, I thought Private Party had gotten their act together but once the halfway point of that match hit, it was botch-botch-botch. Trent looked actively pissed about it. But the Best Friends deserved the win after the work they did during the Georgia tapings and their Tag Title shot should be gobs of fun. Men of Low Moral Fiber EXPLODE~?!

Ladder Match is hard to judge. A lot of people's characters were developed here - Orange Cassidy talks now! The Sabian/Havoc/Ford group is getting to be more well-defined, Sabian is still one of the biggest underachievers on the roster but he's been trying harder the last few weeks, and Jimmy Havoc's splatter-suit, uh, suits him. Cage looked good in his debut and it seems there's a built-in program with him and Darby. Entertaining and the right choice for an opener, but I'm still sorta down on this match.The transitions between comedy spots and big bumps were very jarring, there was even more "guys lying around on the outside" than a MitB match, there were plenty of botches, nobody seemed to be actually trying to win the thing and the finish was clunky. One more thing - Joey Janela's potty mouth stood out to me in a positive way. I think the guy has had a rough year or two in his personal life, just get a lot of sadboy vibes from behind the sunglasses, but I believe in his hybrid everyman/weirdo charisma and I saw some flashes of it here.

MJF/Jungleboy, in a way, felt like the real TV Title Match. Huge early 90's WCW midcard Eaton/Austin/Dustin/Steamboat/Windham/Pillman/Arn vibes with this one. Clearly defined face/heel work, pinpoint traditional structure, hope spots and fake injuries and teasing a 20-minute draw, this was prime wrestling-flavored wrestling from two of the most precocious guys out there. I like them both but this was miles ahead of what I was expecting, and if this is indicative of their chemistry then they might have a brighter future than the Darby/Sammy pairing.

Cody/Archer was, like, fine I guess. They booked themselves into a corner here as this didn't feel like the right time for either guy to lose, but if Cody's going to be Cody then he might as well have a belt every once in awhile. The work itself was good. Cody lives and dies by the circus he brings, and that circus probably needs a crowd more than any other act on the roster. I can tolerate - even be entertained by - the Arn and Jake stuff, but if I was a younger viewer I don't know how their interactions play any better than awkward. Tyson was their to be very, very high and take his shirt off. He's been angling for some sort of freakshow fight to any promoter that'll listen for the last few weeks or months, I don't think he had any real interest in anything other than showing those promoters that he still works out. Oh, and credit to Big Swole for maximizing her camera time.

Kris/Ford was what it was. No ill feelings, they're both capable enough and the match was inoffensive. I think if Ford wants to have any hope of really breaking through in the women's ranks she's going to have to be their highspot queen. Dustin/Spears was a garden-variety bad wrestling segment on it's own, but putting the two matches with the lowest stakes on one after another was completely counter-productive in terms of using Dustin/Spears as a cool-down match and hurt the show's pacing. One of these didn't need to air.

Hikaru Shida's become this sort of Bret Hart-type pickup truck of a carry artist who's just so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to technique. Other than the Nyla/Riho series I think she's been involved in everyone of the roster's best match. It felt like she won the belt because she deserved it, props to commentary and the video packages for addressing and respecting the Hana Kimura tragedy without making it a central point of the match; I believe that would have been disingenuous, right? Shida was Ice Ribbon, Hana was Stardom, I don't think their careers had that much crossover.

Last week I was down on Brodie. His unscripted promos on Moxley were not main-event level, if you will, his cadence, word choice and composure all betraying the character of the Exalted One (and turn the belt rightside up!). Y'know what Brodie Lee is freakin' great at? Technical brawls with good workrate, realism and violence. Him and Mox still have their chemistry like I hoped the would. Maybe Vince was right that Brodie's peak is as a quiet, upper-midcard roadblock for the superstars / Guaranteed Good Match Guy (y'know, a Cersaro) but OK. So be it. He's fantastic in that role.

Everyone else has elaborated so much on Stadium Stampede,...man, there you fuckin' go. I can't call it a MotYC, but on the list of MotQCs it's gonna be at the top. Fujita/Shiozaki, Ripley/Flair, the original Omega/Hardy vs. Jericho/Sammy (still haven't seen Drew/Seth)  all good times, but yup. This was the one. Everyone involved, regardless of rank, should be elated to have this one on their resume. It's just pure entertainment, people. The match was an expression of joy They had me at horse.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by John E. Dynamite

[HarryArchieGus]

2 hours ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

You can't have a ladder match in wrestling without a couple spots where the participants stupidly forget how ladders and things on hooks work.  It's a rule.  

It''s a win if the match doesn't include a spot where the guy on the ladder with no one else even near him doesn't suddenly forget how feet work.

For sure, but that did happen.  Or am I mistaken?  I seem to remember Darby standing waiting for Brian Cage to walk on down.  It took my focus off Cage and onto the worry that they made Darby look stoopid again.  Kazarian had a classic slow ascent early that made no sense other than wrestling ladder match illogic.  Also...

34 minutes ago, EVA said:

At one point, Scorpio Sky was in the ring alone with the ladder set up under the chip....but then just stood around, waiting for Darby’s music to hit instead of climbing...and then started taking the ladder down while Darby was walking—not running—to the ring?  Weird stuff like that needs to get ironed out.

I kinda groaned when they started giving Cage the Lesnar treatment (bullies everyone, then gets taken out at ringside for most of the match), but then they just kept adding shit to the pile on top of him and taking bumps on the pile and it kind of turned me around on it, over the course of the match.

I would like to have felt the same, but the plunder burial felt kinda dumb to me.  Was he knocked out under there?  I suppose I should just stop thinking and go with 'forget it Jake, it's chinatown' er wrestling.  Glad to see ppl dug his debut tho.  I got hung up on the aforementioned and then his corny attire and classic roid look, but it sounds like those of you who know him are excited to see him get this opportunity, so I'll just be patient and hope for the best.  

1 hour ago, Godfrey said:

Thanks, I got all that. My point is that the trend of pushing new signings straight to a world title shot takes away from the idea that you’re supposed to earn it. Sure, Brodie was undefeated but MJF is still undefeated in AEW and has been there since the beginning. And Cage gets a title shot after one match in the company? Boo-urns. If they’re going to wait 4 months to have the match he could’ve gotten there organically anyway. 

I agree with your logic here.  I think the Brodie Lee feud made sense for what it was, but 'what it was' was never a question mark of a title change.  To be clear, I don't blame Brodie at all here, he's been really good and was fantastic in the match.  But this is a huge step down from the intrigue of Jericho-Mox, Jericho-Cody, etc.  This had the intrigue of a TV main event.  I'll definitely give a chance to Cage's ascent, but I worry it'll result in the same lack of intrigue.  Tho, worry aside, if they finish up as strong as Lee-Mox there's no worry about Cage losing steam.  That Mox-Lee finish was amongst the smarter choices on the show.

1 hour ago, Oyaji said:

How can you not like the NWA TV title? Will the TNT logo be the bit that is gold? All of their belt designs are really great. None are like top 3 status but that's okay. 

I get that, but the TV title design was so much more stylishly intricate.  Tho, as you've alluded, it's not finished.  Also, the AEW Championship is really excellent, and the Women's title looks good too.  But I'm  not so sure I agree that the tag design sparkles something special. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[kenyabaxterZXW]

[Jiji]

Edit: never mind. Misread the Q in "MOTQC". I will say I twitch instinctively when people say these cinematic matches are straight up MOTY when we had one of the all time great tag matches at the last PPV. Thank you for adding a qualifier.

The line spot with Hangman/Jericho made me laugh out loud a lot. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Oyaji

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just rewatched the stampede because my girlfriend missed it last night, and man it's just such incredible fun. It's just straight up Wyle E Coyote and Roadrunner. Ortiz is just the greatest. And Adam Page is a fucking star, there I said it. Don't get me wrong, I was super pumped for Blood and Guts, but this kind of match was just what the doctor ordered right now. 

[Godfrey]

48 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

The match Cage has is next month. Unless something has changed from the original plans Fyter Fest is in June. 

Which means All Out will most likely be MJF vs Moxley as that’s not until September. 

Ah, that is my mistake. Somebody mentioned it being months away and I didn’t question it.

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I thought the whole point of the "Casino" ladder match is that you "hit the jackpot" of winning a title match without properly climbing the rankings. Like MITB, just that one time a year gimmick.

I guess I’m not being clear. I’m not speaking in kayfabe terms, I understand the gimmick, I mean irl. Brodie debuts, gets a title shot. Cage debuts, gets a title shot. Sticking with my prime example, MJF has big wins under his belt and is shoehorned onto the PPV with a match vs Jungleboy, which turned out great but perhaps MJF/Mox and Brodie/Jungleboy (leading to Lee challenging at Fyter) would’ve played off Max pinning #1 contender Cody and allowed Brodie a little more time to get established and built as a challenger. Then Cage could go on a roll in the meantime. I’m clearly in the minority on this though so I’ll let it go.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

What’s the Jericho line spot a reference to? I believe I’ve seen it in a movie, or TV show before but I can’t remember which.

[Eivion]

57 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

props to commentary and the video packages for addressing and respecting the Hana Kimura tragedy without making it a central point of the match; I believe that would have been disingenuous, right? Shida was Ice Ribbon, Hana was Stardom, I don't think their careers had that much crossover.

Shida was actually a freelancer for about as long as she was in Ice Ribbon. She had matches with Hana when they were both freelancers though I have no idea how close they are. As far as AEW paying respects to Hana goes I imagine that is a combination of the general tragedy the wrestling community has seen her death as and the fact that Brandi has met Hana several times before. Hana was one of the ones who helped out gaijin so she was probably helping Brandi during her short tour in Stardom.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Eivion

[S.K.o.S.]

3 hours ago, hammerva said:

I am surprised that Sammy didn't come out to the number 69 frankly.

My Twitter pals figured out 4 of the 5 numbers.

Santana & Ortiz were 51-50, i.e. crazy

Jericho was 27, the same number his father wore in his hockey career

Guevara was 93, the year he was born

Hager was 72.  No idea why.  The best I could come up with was that it's a 72 virgins reference as a shot at AEW fans???