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9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

He was so fun to the point that it's been hard for me to get into heavier, bloated Rey with a history of bad knees. Rey Mysterio vs Psicosis from Bash at the Beach '96 is like some shit from a different planet.

BATB 96 was the first PPV I had ordered since WMVI.  My friends and I had moved away from wrestling for a while.  I happened to catch the Nitro where Hall debuted, and started watching again.  So, we were all intrigued who the third man was going to be (my friend who never really watched wrestling called it as being Hogan) and decided to watch the show at my house.  We were still kind of getting settled and chatting and stuff when the Rey/Psicosis match started.  A couple minutes in, we were transfixed on the match and losing our minds over the shit they were pulling off.  Hell, even my dad stopped in the room and couldn't look away.  He's always hated wrestling.  You are so right that it was like something from another planet.  An hour later, we were still trying to figure out what we'd just seen.

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One thing about Juvi, that dude was always way over with the crowd in WCW. Even in throwaway cruiserweight matches he would get the crowd into it.

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14 hours ago, just drew said:

Getting his teeth kicked in by Dusty's kids while producing zero difference makers on brands that matter? Tell me more....

So none of the people on this list are difference makers?

Roman Reigns

Bray Wyatt

Big E 

Otis (who I don’t consider a main eventer, but still)

Baron Corbin

Seth Rollins

Drew McIntyre

Bayley

Sasha Banks

Charlotte Flair 

Asuka

Becky Lynch 

Because all of them were successful in NXT, and have been featured in prominent roles (and in most cases are draws) on WWE tv. But yeah he’s not created difference makers. Okay.

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14 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Some of those names I'll give you but NXT did exactly zero for Drew McEntyre. 

 

They used him as a top tier talent, and showed he was worthy of a push in Vince’s eyes. I agree his Indy/TNA run should have proved it, but if that was the case he would have skipped NXT when he was brought back (like AJ Styles did). Obviously Vince felt like he needed time there. 

Also looking at my own list I feel dumb for not having put Kevin Owens on it. I don’t see any way he’d have made it as a main eventer if he didn’t get the run he had in NXT first as Vince would’ve viewed him as just a mid carder at best. 

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@MavsFan77 most of the guys on that list aren’t genuine NXT developmental talents.  The Shield, Big E, Bray...spent the vast majority of their development in FCW.  McIntyre was a 16-year veteran by the time he went to NXT.  He was hardly developed there.  On the female front, Asuka had a decade in the business before going to NXT.  Not a developmental talent either.

Among the guys you listed, only Otis and Corbin are true NXT developmental “success” stories.  I’ll leave it up to you to decide if that’s something they should hang their hat on.

Now, the 4 Horsewomen are a genuine developmental success story, and a pretty fantastic one.  Bayley, Sasha, and Flair had little to no experience beforehand, and Becky was coming off a long layoff.  NXT deserves a lot of credit for them.  But as time moves on, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that they were the exception and not the rule.

 

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Posted (edited)

I give him 3 years before he’s a writer for the WWE. Given all the stuff I’ve heard about Russo recently, and how he got his job.

Edit: Actually this feels like a work. Alexa’s tweet comes off as in character.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Edit: Actually this feels like a work. Alexa’s tweet comes off as in character.

What?  You don’t believe Lexi Kaufman normally walks around saying things like “How dare you, sir”?’

i’m assuming it is not a work but the tweet  isn’t worded like something i’d expect a real person to say in 2020.

Edited by Tarheel Moneghetti
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To claim "did NXT make difference makers?" is a hard road to claim as well. To say "no, NXT didn't have anything to do with making this star" is to say "the star could have been signed, the day after their signing plopped on the main roster in an immediate main event angle, and absolutely nothing would have changed." Of the NXT wrestlers the only wrestlers who could have done that were  Drew McIntyre and Shinsuke Nakamura- and as I said, in McIntyre's case some reps as a main eventer needed to happen to make it possible to see him as a main event player and not a failed experiment.

Even then, though, if the people NXT made don't count as difference makers, it just shows another problem: If just making top names doesn't make a difference maker, then you have to accept that being a true difference maker is effectively random. NO ONE can make a difference maker, because ultimately the only people who'll make a difference are people who attract the attention of non-fans (not even a smark vs. casual debate, but who makes someone who has no interest in wrestling say "I want to see what this person's about.') Looking at the people who did that- there's no common thread except their own success. There was blue-chip prospects like Rock and journeymen like Austin, there were wrestlers who could be considered one of the best on the planet like Daniel Bryan and wrestlers who didn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch like Hogan, wrestlers who were rising stars taken over the top like Punk and people at the tail end of their career like Cena...there is no one formula to determine who will change the game.

 

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I think if we replaced "NXT" with "WWE Performance Centre" the conversation would be a little clearer.

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WWE may be going the AEW route having some PC members and NXTers in the crowd starting tonight.

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/report-nxt-pc-talent-acting-fans-wwe-raw-smackdown-311801

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According to a Fightful story Monday, members of both the NXT roster and WWE Performance Center will be in the crowd acting as fans for both Raw and SmackDown, the first time they have done so since the pandemic shows at the Performance Center began.

If accurate, tonight's Raw will be the first show in which they are in the stands as they embark on a three-day taping stretch.

The "audience members" will be kept off camera intentionally, according to an internal memo Fightful acquired, but will be used to create a better environment. Aside from keeping people off camera, that would follow what AEW has been doing with Dynamite, Dark, and this past Saturday's Double or Nothing at both Daily's Place in Jacksonville, FL, and the Norcross, GA, tapings.

Our Bryan Alvarez confirmed they were considering talent and staff in the crowd for NXT, but the final decision was to be made by Vince McMahon so nothing was set in stone until it actually happens.

It's unknown whether the audience members will also be present for NXT as well.

The Fightful report detailed that the aforementioned talents were screened for COVID-19 this morning at an offsite location and transported back and forth to the PC. They also mentioned that Dominik Dijakovic, Chelsea Green, Shotzi Blackheart, and Jessamyn Duke are among those expected to be participating. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Infinit said:

I think if we replaced "NXT" with "WWE Performance Centre" the conversation would be a little clearer.

I definitely think there has to be a distinction between talent that is genuinely *developed* by the NXT/Performance Center system and experienced talent that already knows what they’re doing but gets shined up by being pushed on NXT TV.  Because these are very different things.

Going back to Asuka for an example, NXT didn’t develop her, but she clearly benefitted from being pushed as an ace on NXT for a year prior to going to the main roster.  (That said, there doesn’t really seem to be an consistency, as far as “push on NXT=you’re instantly over on the main roster.”  Plenty of pushed NXT acts are met lukewarmly on the main roster.)

I think the issue, long-term, is that if you look at the recent history of NXT, their “success” stories have come far more from the latter category than the former (especially on the men’s side).  So...what’s the point of throwing huge amounts of money into the actual developmental system if it’s not working?  There’s a significant problem with developmental that’s being covered over by all the Indy signings they’ve done over the past few years.  And you have to lay that at the feet of the guy who engineered the whole thing.

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Hopefully this spells the end for JD From NY.  That mark has a huge following..  disgraceful that any fan would want to be aligned with him and his channels. There are way too many "JD's" in the wrestling community. 

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4 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

WWE are nothing but an AEW rip-off now.

This is a good move though.  I've wanted them to do this for a while.  Just a little bit of noise makes a huge difference..  plus,  the way AEW has had the fans interact with the talent Pineapple Pete and all that, it's great. 

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I remember back in '06-'07 People were saying that Finlay was Vince's favorite wrestler at the time and that he would've gotten a World title run if it wasn't for his age. Finlay is one of my all time favorites and I wish he had a run. It never appeared to me that he was 50 or close to it at the time. Looking back, especially after watching the Taker Documentary, he was light years ahead of where HHH and Taker have been in the past 5 years as workers. It's bad enough that both Taker and Hunter get to work 25 to 35 minutes or more for the matches they do have where they are quickly blown up and have to resort to melodrama for storytelling. Finlay was working a full time schedule and never seemed out of place, in fact he was steps ahead of everyone and made Batista, Lashley and guys like that better worker being in the ring with them. His ECW title run was cool atleast

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Bock was almost 52 when he had one of the best matches of all time that just happened to be an hour long.

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I'd love to see someone way more knowledgeable than me have a bash at a 'Greatest Wrestler at Every Age', going from like 16 to 60 or something. 

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16 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

I'd love to see someone way more knowledgeable than me have a bash at a 'Greatest Wrestler at Every Age', going from like 16 to 60 or something. 

16? Might as well go down to 9 for Riho. 🙂 

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6 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

So none of the people on this list are difference makers?

Roman Reigns

Bray Wyatt

Big E 

Otis (who I don’t consider a main eventer, but still)

Baron Corbin

Seth Rollins

Drew McIntyre

Bayley

Sasha Banks

Charlotte Flair 

Asuka

Becky Lynch 

Because all of them were successful in NXT, and have been featured in prominent roles (and in most cases are draws) on WWE tv. But yeah he’s not created difference makers. Okay.

Most of them were in FCW, or had some other experience. The rebuttal to my argument is Alexa Bliss. The nXt system found her, trained her, and are making piles of money with her. But nXt didn't have a thing in the world to do with anyone on this list except Baron Corbin. Big E came from nXt tanked, and needed a page one rewrite to keep his job. He's phenomenal now, but that had nothing to do with his time in nXt. Sasha has done zero on the main roster except botch moves and complain. Charlotte would've been a star either way. She's too good an athlete not to be. Seth Rollins is an abomination, but he was a big name in ROH before nXt had anything to do with him. I don't know enough about Asuka before she got to nXt to comment one way or another, but if anything the amount of time she spent in nXt delayed her making a difference on a tv show that matters. Drew had to get away from HHH to become a star. Bayley & Becky had the indy experience to keep their head above water if they'd been sent straight to a show that matters. I understand that in certain circles it's blasphemy to speak ill of Daddy H and his little troupe of go getters in Tampa, but the vast majority of his chosen ones die on the vine because away from nXt they just aren't that great. The list of talent you provided is...exhaustive, for sure, but fewer eyes are watching the product than ever and current nXt tv is embarrassingly awful. It's unwatchable dogshit. Keith Lee, Ciampa, Dijakovic, and Velveteen Dream have a chance on the main roster. The rest are kidding themselves about making a difference anywhere but the developmental brand. nXt has failed to develop new stars, in that people generally watch stars. Ratings are abysmal. The product is trash (with a few exceptions). That's on HHH. 

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Also, that JDfromNY guy has made a living off of saying horrifying things about Alexa Bliss and Nia Jax, amongst others. At the risk of sounding like a dick, my theory is that these empowered women remind him of all the girls who have told him "no" over the years. Dude is pushing 40 and has nothing but an angry podcast emanating from a closet. Fuck that dude.

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