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In all seriousness, I hope he's safe.

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Well duh

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Gosh, I remember when Csonka first started writing at 411, he was a real champion for TNA in the early years. Coupled with JD Dunn’s excellent reviews they really helped banish the memory of Scott Keith from that site 

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RIP Larry Csonka.  

I was a regular reader and big fan.  He seemed to be really fair to the content.  And really passionate about wrestling in general.  He also seemed to have a really measured consensus opinion that was no doubt his uncompromised true feelings.  Especially loved his best matches list for each month and for specific promotions.  

 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, BurningBeard said:

Gosh, I remember when Csonka first started writing at 411, he was a real champion for TNA in the early years. Coupled with JD Dunn’s excellent reviews they really helped banish the memory of Scott Keith from that site 

Larry used to use Mr X (now known as PCO) of TNA Wrestling at another wrestling forum he used to post at which has long since been nuked. His 3 Rs (Right, wrong, Ridiculous) inspired me to write some of my own which I called The Cubby Critique. He was a very nice man to me back then and I was so happy for his success at 411. He was the evolution of Scott Keith when it came to reviewing wrestling of all types. 

He did have a leg amputated not that long ago so his health had not been great. But I'm so gutted for Christy his wife/widow, Hana his oldest daughter, and all the people he helped/inspired. 

Edit: he was also a podcaster. Here's his last podcast, which was a Retro Review. Rest in Peace, Larry.

 

Edited by cubbymark
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4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Well AEW is doing a mystery guy. This could be somebody already signed, or it could be a guy that was released recently. I just hope this isn’t Gulak.

It's AKI Man

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I will also elaborate.  I'm of the belief that Chris Jericho was incredibly entertaining, and arguably the best performer in the industry, during his WCW run.  He jumped to WWF and had a strong debut and a good month before getting his balls cut off over petty politics.  Regardless, he did the best with what he could, and certainly had some good matches over his tenure, but his promos and character work (from what I've seen of that run) never allowed him to reach the level of quality/creativity of his WCW run.  Or this current AEW run.  

As you've said on multiple occasions, you took a 15ish year break from watching wrestling. As a result of that, I would suggest your assessment of Jericho's time in WWE is somewhat limited and off the mark. 

With Jericho, going back to the middle of the '00s there seemed to be some fairness to the idea that he'd been mishandled because he'd never received a firm commitment in terms of the company pushing him as a tippy-top guy. But once he caught on, he was always heavily featured and given match and promo time during that run. He was almost always an integral part of their roster. From 2008-2010, I'd argue he put in a run that rivals his time in WCW. Almost every time he came back from a hiatus, he was constantly getting chances to express his creativity, from dramatic new looks to wordless promos to the List and so on. There were things along the way that he took as missteps or slights, like the Fandango feud or his match with Owens not being for the Universal title. But on the whole, it's reductive to suggest he was "badly mishandled" (your words) and didn't get to express his creativity. WWE is certainly produced to more rigidly conform to a single person's vision, but you're really writing off a lot of high-quality work at the highest levels that stemmed from Jericho's personal input just because it happened in that company. I'm happy he feels more creatively fulfilled now, but I'm sure there are a lot of talents in WWE who wish they could be as "badly mishandled" as Chris Jericho was for 18 years. 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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As to what you said, I think Jericho had the touch when it came to Vince, but only up to a certain point. Jericho was more outspoken than others in the back and I think over time he learned how to play the game well. I mean, this is the same guy who told Kofi to go and fist fight Vince because Vince would never respect him otherwise. I think that mattered a lot when he was younger or was coming back from stints on broadcast TV game shows or whatever. As he got older though, I think his pull with Vince lessened and Jericho became a JAG.. Even still, Jericho was influential enough to put AJ Styles over even though Vince wouldn't let Jericho put others over.

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FUCK. Just saw Meltzer say that they called off the search for Shad. Unless there's some kind of a miracle, RIP. And he did the most fatherly thing possible and made sure the lifeguards saved his son first.

Dammit anyway.

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Matt Striker potentially being a reality show villain is something. 

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If he gets chosen, I hope he does the "I'm marking out, bro!" deal.

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I just hope the producers booked the correct Matt Striker, if not they’ll probably need to book Chad Collyer as well.

”Kristy, your baby daddy will be decided by a 45 minute 2 out of 3 falls submission match”

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I don’t know what everybody else’s TV experiences are on that program, but you can tell Matt striker probably talked to the director and told him “I’m going to give you all the reactions you need, so please put the camera on me”.

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3 minutes ago, Ultimo Necro said:

I just hope the producers booked the correct Matt Striker, if not they’ll probably need to book Chad Collyer as well.

”Kristy, your baby daddy will be decided by a 45 minute 2 out of 3 falls submission match”

Collyer would just use his Dr. Mindbender powers on the lady and win the whole show.

I now realize I would totally watch that show if he was on it, trying to hypnotize everyone so he comes out on top.

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Is there a consensus on agile/talented 80s big guys?

Just between Big Bossman, One Man Gang, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Tenta (earthquake) if you were gonna build a big monster heel to fight your top face, at least of those four who would you go with?

And heres where I'm guilty of sleeping on the guy, but Shockmaster/Tugboat... Would he belong in the discussion?

I'm on an 80s kick watching that Ricky Steamboat doc that WWE had made and seeing Steamboat against Haku had me dying to see the best of the 80s big guys. 

(Not including Vader in the list because in my head hes way more violent and unhinged in his aura, like he could legit snap at any minute and kill a journeyman, compared to the above guys. But that's just an opinion and maybe he does deserve to be ranked among them, I'm open to seeing others thoughts or any match recommendations)

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1 hour ago, Hayabusa said:

Is there a consensus on agile/talented 80s big guys?

Just between Big Bossman, One Man Gang, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Tenta (earthquake) if you were gonna build a big monster heel to fight your top face, at least of those four who would you go with?

And heres where I'm guilty of sleeping on the guy, but Shockmaster/Tugboat... Would he belong in the discussion?

I'm on an 80s kick watching that Ricky Steamboat doc that WWE had made and seeing Steamboat against Haku had me dying to see the best of the 80s big guys. 

(Not including Vader in the list because in my head hes way more violent and unhinged in his aura, like he could legit snap at any minute and kill a journeyman, compared to the above guys. But that's just an opinion and maybe he does deserve to be ranked among them, I'm open to seeing others thoughts or any match recommendations)

Mike Shaw and Gary Albright

 

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Boss Man in a landslide. Dude could hang with Kenta Kobashi. He was straight fire as the kids today say. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Boss Man in a landslide. Dude could hang with Kenta Kobashi. He was straight fire as the kids today say. 

I'd say the Bossman went from good as a heel, and became pretty great when he turned face and lost weight. I think my favorite match of his face run was against the Barbarian from the '91 Royal Rumble.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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1 hour ago, Hayabusa said:

Is there a consensus on agile/talented 80s big guys?

Just between Big Bossman, One Man Gang, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Tenta (earthquake) if you were gonna build a big monster heel to fight your top face, at least of those four who would you go with?

And heres where I'm guilty of sleeping on the guy, but Shockmaster/Tugboat... Would he belong in the discussion?

I'm on an 80s kick watching that Ricky Steamboat doc that WWE had made and seeing Steamboat against Haku had me dying to see the best of the 80s big guys. 

(Not including Vader in the list because in my head hes way more violent and unhinged in his aura, like he could legit snap at any minute and kill a journeyman, compared to the above guys. But that's just an opinion and maybe he does deserve to be ranked among them, I'm open to seeing others thoughts or any match recommendations)

Vader should be in the discussion. As should Terry Gordy. But if we're sticking to just those four, then Boss Man at his best was better than the other three at their best. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hayabusa said:

Is there a consensus on agile/talented 80s big guys?

Just between Big Bossman, One Man Gang, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Tenta (earthquake) if you were gonna build a big monster heel to fight your top face, at least of those four who would you go with?

And heres where I'm guilty of sleeping on the guy, but Shockmaster/Tugboat... Would he belong in the discussion?

I'm on an 80s kick watching that Ricky Steamboat doc that WWE had made and seeing Steamboat against Haku had me dying to see the best of the 80s big guys. 

(Not including Vader in the list because in my head hes way more violent and unhinged in his aura, like he could legit snap at any minute and kill a journeyman, compared to the above guys. But that's just an opinion and maybe he does deserve to be ranked among them, I'm open to seeing others thoughts or any match recommendations)

I'd put Yoko on this list before his weight got really out of control. 

I'd also put the Barbarian on there as well.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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I would say Barbarian probably should be on there.

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1 minute ago, mattdangerously said:

Vader should be in the discussion. As should Terry Gordy. But if we're sticking to just those four, then Boss Man at his best was better than the other three at their best. 

If Gordy is in the discussion then you gotta throw in Doc. Wasn't much difference size wise between the two. 

I don't think there was a scarier wrestler to me in the late 80s/early 90s than Doc. That whole 108 stitches in his eye just scared the shit out of 10 year old me. 

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20 hours ago, caley said:

If/when The Revolt end up in AEW, there is no way there are going to be heels.  They could straight-up MURDER Cody Rhodes in the ring and people are going to cheer them.

I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of The Revival but their gimmick (Throwback guys), talking points (respecting tag team wrestling), history (NXT darlings to being shat upon by Vince/WWE creative) and standing up to the uber-evil WWE and Vince, I honestly think there is not one single thing they can do that will get them booed upon their entrance to AEW.  Down the line, they could maybe align against somebody popular/alongside somebody hated, but for the first 6 months to a year, they are going to be crazy-over.

Having said that, though, The Revolt have a big difference there, since there's also the "The Young Bucks and Revival have made it clear for years they badly want to feud with each other- and considering The Elite are accepted as the core heroes in AEW, that would assume that AEW fans would be hip enough to boo The Revolt, simply because it'd be a means to an end for Young Bucks/Revolt to happen. The Revolt may get cheered after the feud, but in all likeliness fans play along for the beginning of their run (and if The Revival are good, they can keep being booed since then.)

 

8 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

I thought the problem was the opposite: taking “cast-off” WWE guys and immediately pushing them over homegrown stars.

And really, that’s the issue. WCW and WWE signed fired, underused guys all the time. But instead of immediately pushing them to the moon, they tended to slot them appropriately and built them slowly.

Honestly, though, that's kind of a difference, though: AEW's failing is that they do kind of do the same thing TNA does as well. 

Since AEW formed, four people jumped from WWE to AEW so far, and all four walked right into a big main event spot. It is pretty varied given the examples there. Jon Moxley was a top star for WWE, and honestly AEW would be fools not to make the guy an immediate main eventer.  Matt Hardy was a tag team guy/midcarder in WWE, but he was at least a main eventer when he was in TNA and is a textbook example of "he's more valuable outside of WWE than inside the WWE". In both cases, it makes sense to make them instant main eventers in AEW.

There's a world of difference between a Jon Moxley or a Matt Hardy,  though, and a Shawn Spears or a Brodie Lee. Shawn Spears was a kind of comedic opening match guy and borderline jobber, and Brodie Lee was a lackey/tag team guy in a team that was nowhere near as legendary as the Hardyz. Spears was weighed, measured, and found wanting as a top star and fell down to his level of competence as "he's a perfectly acceptable lowercard hand", but Brodie Lee is exactly the type of thing everyone mocked TNA for. Even if Brodie Lee is very talented and a good performer, on a logical scale, his push is the first thing AEW has done that actively makes AEW look small-time:

Quote

 

The Dark Order is a dominant dark, spooky stable running roughshod over AEW.

Brodie Lee is the mastermind of the Dark Order.

When Brodie Lee was seen as Luke Harper, Harper was a lackey and goon for Bray Wyatt (and the last time we saw Harper had him as the sidekick to Erick Rowan.)

By this logic, you can safely assume the kayfabe level of power goes: Bray Wyatt -> Erick Rowan -> Luke Harper -> The Dark Order. 

By kayfabe standards, The Dark Order are not some dominant dark, spooky stable...they're a bunch of schlubs who weren't good enough for the Wyatt Family (and in a kayfabe world, it's feasible Bray Wyatt could be pulling the strings over all of them). The AEW roster are a bunch of losers who can't handle the scrubbiest foot soldiers in the Wyatt Family, let alone the big guns. AEW looks small time.

 

 

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On 5/12/2020 at 5:14 PM, Curt McGirt said:

Oh no, I remember that from Foley's book now. Herb says "Maybe you have some sake tonight to celebrate", Tokyo says "You know sake?" and Herb replies "Yeah, I was married to a Jap once." *facepalm*

The Brawl has been showing up on my Youtube feed, tempting me to watch it... thanks for taking one for the team and telling me not to. On the other hand, @EricR I think we found a secret treasure trove of Tony Halme matches for you to review on Segunda haha. Finland Thor! 

Also, is that Tyler Mane the Sabretooth, Michael Myers remake Tyler Mane?

Oh I already have Finland Thor drafts, someday, someday. Wonder if Borga was the only guy to work one of the very first UWF tapings and the very last one. I did review all of his first run 1990 UWF run as The Viking...

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2018/05/bangkok-shocks-saigon-shakes-halme-rocks.html 

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5 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I don't think there was a scarier wrestler to me in the late 80s/early 90s than Doc

Shit take time, but I’m sticking with this opinion having just watched a load of 88-89 NWA and having seen my fair share of AJPW: Steve Williams is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. The awesome power, ability to drop people on their heads in Japan, and athletic background which JR tells me about ad nauseum do not excuse the clumsiness, terrible promos, lack of charisma, miscues and bad timing. 

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