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MAY 2020 WRESTLING CHAT.


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3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

One of the worst parts of Vince winning the wrestling war is that the company with historically one of the worst in-ring products ended up the survivor. 

The worse part is that...even on an in-ring scale (especially in the modern era), WWE isn't that bad. It isn't good, but the WWE/F roster is just too GOOD to be truly BAD. There's just too many talented wrestlers on the show to make the show bad. 

WWE's not bad...it's BLAND. It's a bland piece of pablum that doesn't inspire any thoughts- good, bad, whatever. Even if WWE is trying to make "moments" instead of good story, by and large most of those moments are so formulaic even they don't really seem like great moments...in large part because there's no story leading to it and just moment for the sake of moment. 

Heck, the fact WWE is so bland may indeed make WWE WORSE than bad. At least with truly bad stuff: UWF shows, WCW in 2000, etc....at least then you can watch the show to laugh at it and have a great time. You can't even mock how bad the WWE is, because it's at least "this is a perfectly competent wrestling show. This is an acceptable show. This is a good way to waste seven hours a week of my life I will never get back."

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I've been watching the old prime time's from 88 and the PPV's that correspond.  I just finished Survivor Series 88. Dibiase, and Haku coming out to Akeem's theme song was solid gold.  Also I always thought it was dumb to turn Fuji against Demolition while they were champions. He could have turned on them to cost them the belts but he looked stupid leaving the champions to go with Powers of Pain.

Also Prime Time had a ton of goofy skits as we all know including Brother Love. We would probably hate the Prime Time skits in today's world.  

It's also wild how protected Akeem and Big Boss Man were in that main event match yet they never even came close to winning tag belts. 

The big difference in 80's early 90's WWF and now is that in the old days you had guys like Rude, Dibiase, Jake, Boss man, who should have won the world and/or IC belt but never did. Yet in present day we have Swagger, Ziggler, and Jinder all holding the belt. Huge difference. 

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22 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Hangman Page is even getting to be one of my favorites, and if you had told me that would have happened a year ago I would have been tremendously confused.

Right there with you Stefanie. I said it in the PPV thread, but Adam Page is an honest to God star. Its mind blowing to me. I remember seeing him on ROH TV on years ago and it's like it's not even the same guy. I know they keep teasing turning him but I think it would be a big mistake right now. 

2 hours ago, (BP) said:

They didn’t have a great in ring product, but they had everything they needed to get by: beefy dudes and the willingness to exploit racial animosity. 

And not only that, but it was only possible because of MSG/NYC and the rest of the northeast US. The ethnic champion stuff only works if you have the good fortune to run the territory where the ethnic people actually are. 

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21 minutes ago, Death From Above said:

When evaluating WWE you're all forgetting we still have AT LEAST another 10 years of Triple H ruining Wrestlemanias with his "I think I am really good at long matches" thing.

Even that's hard with it, because HHH is still has a few levels left to go of the wrestler in decline:

LEVEL ONE: "I'm no longer at the top of my game, but between muscle memory and how well-respected I am, no one but me will notice." (Think: Benoit in 2007- had lost a step, but still had people on DVDVR going "I'll cut my balls off if Benoit jobs to the Miz!".) 

LEVEL TWO: "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was." (Triple H has usually been able to stay in this level.) 

LEVEL THREE: "I am perfectly aware that I have one great match left in me and that's it." (Think: Vampiro at Ultimo Lucha I vs. Pentagon Jr., or Kurt Angle in his WWE run.) 

LEVEL FOUR: "I don't have any good matches left in me, but I can still give you a perfectly fun "show up, do all my signature spots, never leave my feet except to do my finisher, and let everyone go home happy' match." (Think: Most of the legends still running around smaller indies.)

LEVEL FIVE: "I have nothing left." (The time when legends retire.) 

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27 minutes ago, Death From Above said:

When evaluating WWE you're all forgetting we still have AT LEAST another 10 years of Triple H ruining Wrestlemanias with his "I think I am really good at long matches" thing.

Unless vince really does sell the company to Fox or the Mouse and they clean house. 

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6 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Unless vince really does sell the company to Fox or the Mouse and they clean house. 

Fox isn’t getting rid of the guy that was the main spokesperson for the company when they signed the deal for Smackdown. Plus look at the success he’s had/is having with NXT. Even if either company cleaned house Triple H isn’t going anywhere. 

The only ones I’d say for sure would be let go are Vince, and his moron puppet Dunn. They could easily replace Dunn with Jeremy Borash. Now the thing I’d worry more about is if the company gets sold, and Triple H ends up with the main roster job, and HBK takes over NXT. I don’t think I can take 30-45 minute main events every week that have a million finishers in each.

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3 hours ago, ka-to said:

WW(W)F turned to garbage as soon as Lou Albano turned babyface.

I'll defend the Albano face turn because my all-time favorite tag team The British Bulldogs would NEVER have won the titles or gotten that push they did if Lou wasn't their mouthpiece.  His "manager of tag champions" MADE them to the fans who watched because it was a fad and didn't know better.

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11 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

Plus look at the success he’s had/is having with NXT

Serious question - what's the metric for success here? NXT has been a complete flop since they moved to network television.

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10 minutes ago, Casey said:

Serious question - what's the metric for success here? NXT has been a complete flop since they moved to network television.

To be fair, it should have never been on USA and they felt compelled to do that for competition sake.

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Sure, but we're talking about if a massive company like FOX or Disney bought WWE. They'd take a look at the current NXT and see that it's pretty much a failure and it's just a feeder system for WWE that's on network TV to foolishly compete with a new company. Even before the USA deal, it wasn't driving up new subs for the Network, and I'm pretty sure they're still losing money on NXT as a whole.

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1 hour ago, Death From Above said:

When evaluating WWE you're all forgetting we still have AT LEAST another 10 years of Triple H ruining Wrestlemanias with his "I think I am really good at long matches" thing.

I wish, but that came to an end this year. 36 needed it.

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6 minutes ago, Casey said:

Sure, but we're talking about if a massive company like FOX or Disney bought WWE. They'd take a look at the current NXT and see that it's pretty much a failure and it's just a feeder system for WWE that's on network TV to foolishly compete with a new company. Even before the USA deal, it wasn't driving up new subs for the Network, and I'm pretty sure they're still losing money on NXT as a whole.

I'm pretty sure there was a conversation here in a similar some months back (probably after Triple H got "demoted"), but I do think it was in regards to someone else being in control of NXT maybe after a sale or something. Now that I think about it, I think the discussion revolved around if any potential buyer for WWE would see the importance of the indies and whether or not NXT was essential.

I think I pretty much said a whole bunch of people in NXT would be doomed. I believe my words were to the effect of a "bunch of people going back to the indies whence they came". Unfortunately, some of that became reality due to COVID-19.

So yeah, you're pretty much saying what I've already said. If you remove the jaded WWE mindset or philosophy, everything they own is a whole different entity.

 

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2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I'm pretty sure there was a conversation here in a similar some months back (probably after Triple H got "demoted"), but I do think it was in regards to someone else being in control of NXT maybe after a sale or something. Now that I think about it, I think the discussion revolved around if any potential buyer for WWE would see the importance of the indies and whether or not NXT was essential.

I think I pretty much said a whole bunch of people in NXT would be doomed. I believe my words were to the effect of a "bunch of people going back to the indies whence they came". Unfortunately, some of that became reality due to COVID-19.

So yeah, you're pretty much saying what I've already said. If you remove the jaded WWE mindset or philosophy, everything they own is a whole different entity.

I vaguely remember a conversation about this same premise happening a few months ago or whatever, but it involved some people on this board that I have on ignore so I, in turn, ignored most of the conversation.

Go review some more Bull Nakano matches ?

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In addition to that, NXT would be safe even if it's getting weak ratings.

Businesses would know the value of NXT, because businesses know the concept of having a fighting brand (Company A has a popular product. Company B follows the leader and comes out with a rival product. Company A, not wanting to risk their popular product's reputation, brings out a similar product that has the main goal of competing with this new product, to keep the popular product out of the fight.) 

Describe NXT as "it's the fighting brand to AEW so that AEW doesn't put WWE at risk", and it'll survive much longer.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

I vaguely remember a conversation about this same premise happening a few months ago or whatever, but it involved some people on this board that I have on ignore so I, in turn, ignored most of the conversation.

Go review some more Bull Nakano matches ?

On that note, I l tracked a podcast Bull did recently (I believe it's the Joshi podcast). Apparently, the match that ultimately ended her career was a tag match with Hokuto against Cutie and Mayumi Ozaki on Nitro. Towards the end of the match, Hokuto goes to the top while Nakano does the joshi obligatory hold them by the back of the head while your partner does a highspot. Except this one was going to be a miss. Cutie and Ozaki move out of the way, and Hokuto does a somersault plancha RIGHT ON Bull's right knee and apparently dislocated the knee. Bull is on the ground screaming in pain, and SOMEHOW managed to get herself on the apron for the finish, which was like a minute later. Okay, I'm being very loose with that because she gets on the apron just like Austin "rolled up" Owen at Summerslam 97. To be frank, she is laying flat on her back on the apron in excruciating pain.

Did WCW not have a system in place for legit injuries? I say that because the only person who checks on Bull after the match is Hokuto because she knows something is really wrong. That and she saw when she got up from the plancha that Bull was in agony. Between that, it taking forever to get to Buff when he broke his neck, and what happened with Sid, they didn't stop matches for shit. If you were fucked up, they let it play out.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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There was talk of NXT heading to tv before AEW. Getting tv deal actually made NXT profitable just like AEW's deal for extending Dynamite and adding a new show with TNT did. NXT had so many people that it honestly needed tv or more specifically an extra hour to keep working.

Also HHH has been ready to hang it up for a while now. Running NXT and other shit is seemingly more enjoyable for him while also being  super tiring. Wouldn't be shocked if its more Vince's fault that HHH is still occasionally wrestling. 

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35 minutes ago, Eivion said:

There was talk of NXT heading to tv before AEW.

There is talk of a lot things, but it didn't happen until AEW was about to start television. Go figure.

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