MAY 2020 WRESTLING CHAT.

[SirSmUgly]

I'm midway through 2000 WCW on a watch, and I forgot how long it took for WCW to become enjoyable again. There are so many things that I forgot had to happen before we got a title scene revolving around Booker/Scott Steiner and Chavo became the heel ace in the Cruiserweight division. 

I also have to say that the booking period where Kevin Sullivan was booking in between Russo-headed booking teams is fucking BAD in a way that actually, it might be the worst-booked part of the whole Nitro era. Even if he was crippled by losing Guerrero et al. and even if he was basically forced into a holding pattern for the big stuff on the show while Busch figured out what to do, there was no excuse for:

• Letting Ferrarra and Madusa still dominate the Cruiserweight division instead of, IDK, just pushing Lash Leroux or someone with at least a bit of potential (or putting the gold on Chavo already)
• That fucking Booker T angle when he was clearly well above that level in the eyes of the fans
• Constantly booking almost every match with Harris Boys run-ins. It might not be EVERY match, but seriously, it's a lot of matches. 

I could go on, but my God, Sullivan was a dreadful Attitude-era-style booker. These shows are fascinating in their shittiness, actually. 

I'm wondering if when I actually get to the point where Booker/Steiner and Chavo/Helms are the focal points of the shows if it will actually be good. Did I just imagine that it was good because it was better than what came before it? 

[Kang]

I'm surprised Sasha Banks is still with WWE.  Wonder what kind of punishment Vince has in store for her.

[Gorman]

10 minutes ago, D.Z said:

I'm surprised Sasha Banks is still with WWE.  Wonder what kind of punishment Vince has in store for her.

I was about to say that I expected her to win the Money in the Bank to do a long tease of cashing in on Bayley. Then I checked and realized Sasha isn't even in the match.

[Guest Edwin]

20 minutes ago, D.Z said:

I'm surprised Sasha Banks is still with WWE.  Wonder what kind of punishment Vince has in store for her.

What did she do now?

[nate]

21 minutes ago, D.Z said:

I'm surprised Sasha Banks is still with WWE.  Wonder what kind of punishment Vince has in store for her.

At this point, he's right to do whatever.  She's been fuck awful since bringing her LCD pandering and boo-boo face back from her sabbatical.  If I half-assed my way thru my job, I'd have been canned by now.

[caley]

27 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I'm midway through 2000 WCW on a watch, and I forgot how long it took for WCW to become enjoyable again. There are so many things that I forgot had to happen before we got a title scene revolving around Booker/Scott Steiner and Chavo became the heel ace in the Cruiserweight division. 

I also have to say that the booking period where Kevin Sullivan was booking in between Russo-headed booking teams is fucking BAD in a way that actually, it might be the worst-booked part of the whole Nitro era. Even if he was crippled by losing Guerrero et al. and even if he was basically forced into a holding pattern for the big stuff on the show while Busch figured out what to do, there was no excuse for:

• Letting Ferrarra and Madusa still dominate the Cruiserweight division instead of, IDK, just pushing Lash Leroux or someone with at least a bit of potential (or putting the gold on Chavo already)
• That fucking Booker T angle when he was clearly well above that level in the eyes of the fans
• Constantly booking almost every match with Harris Boys run-ins. It might not be EVERY match, but seriously, it's a lot of matches. 

I could go on, but my God, Sullivan was a dreadful Attitude-era-style booker. These shows are fascinating in their shittiness, actually. 

I'm wondering if when I actually get to the point where Booker/Steiner and Chavo/Helms are the focal points of the shows if it will actually be good. Did I just imagine that it was good because it was better than what came before it? 

One of my favourite dying days of WCW moments was when, for no reason whatsoever, Sullivan  brought The Varsity Club back in late 99, with Leia Meow (Kimona from ECW) as their cheerleader in a bikini top.  And Sullivan was on commentary going something like "Her name is Leia Meow" then when Tony et al. kind of no-sold it he kept bringing it up "Leia Meow.  Lay-uh-ME-OW"  I swear he even said "Get it, Tony?" but I might have just turned it into a Monty Python sketch in my head.  I also remember one of the wrestling recappers taking great joy in them putting her on a mini-trampoline to distract their opponents, but her implants did not comply and bounce along with her as they did on, say, The Man Show.  A quick wiki check sees that the group lasted about a month.

I don't remember the late 2000 WCW being actually "good" but it was so much better than what came before, I probably overrated it, too.

[Zimbra]

The Varsity Club revival is, hands down, the weirdest booking choice in late WCW.  A faction hardly anyone remembered with guys that couldn't really go anymore.

[AxB]

26 minutes ago, nate said:

At this point, he's right to do whatever.  She's been fuck awful since bringing her LCD pandering and boo-boo face back from her sabbatical.  If I half-assed my way thru my job, I'd have been canned by now.

If you sell merch, you get a pass.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

16 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

The Varsity Club revival is, hands down, the weirdest booking choice in late WCW.  A faction hardly anyone remembered with guys that couldn't really go anymore.

I honestly don't remember it beyond that first appearance @caley described. 

I'm also kind of mixing up a bunch of stuff: I think I have a memory of Variety Club wrestling The Dead Pool (another weird late-WCW stable with Vampiro, Raven, ICP and Muta?) But I also feel like Raven was gone to ECW at that point as a result of a Bischoff meeting where he said anyone was free to go if they didn't want to be there (I recall some reports saying Konnan tried to leave too). So Sullivan wouldn't have been in charge yet at that point... that was Aug 99 when Raven returned at the Elks Lodge for the first TNN TV. Sullivan must have not been in charge until summer 2000 and the Dead Pool thing is a false memory? 

[SirSmUgly]

The Varsity Club stuff was so random. It stopped after like six weeks, too. There was SO MUCH dropped stuff in that early 2000s period, actually. Most of it bad, but sort of surreal. 

EDIT: I just saw this late '99 stuff and am already shedding memories of it, but The Dead Pool was around then for maybe two months. Raven did leave and the Dead Pool was then just Vamp, ICP, and Muta. Raven was back wrestling main events for ECW by early 2000. 

Sullivan was in charge from Feb. to May.

Also, I didn't even remember PG-13 having a run as cannon fodder in WCW around that same time, but they did. Regal came back, formed a stable with Dave Taylor and Chris Adams, lost a bunch, then lost a Title-vs-Retirement match for the TV title against Hacksaw like four months later and left again (for WWF, I guess). 

So weird. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Smelly McUgly

[Zimbra]

2 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I honestly don't remember it beyond that first appearance @caley described. 

I'm also kind of mixing up a bunch of stuff: I think I have a memory of Variety Club wrestling The Dead Pool (another weird late-WCW stable with Vampiro, Raven, ICP and Muta?) But I also feel like Raven was gone to ECW at that point as a result of a Bischoff meeting where he said anyone was free to go if they didn't want to be there (I recall some reports saying Konnan tried to leave too). So Sullivan wouldn't have been in charge yet at that point... that was Aug 99 when Raven returned at the Elks Lodge for the first TNN TV. Sullivan must have not been in charge until summer 2000 and the Dead Pool thing is a false memory? 

I'm pretty sure that they ran in on a Dark Carnival (the successor to the Dead Pool with just Vampiro and Muta) match, which may have been their debut?  It's all hazy to me.

They did wrestle both Chono & Super J and PG-13, which are some pretty random-ass teams.

[Zimbra]

3 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

The Varsity Club stuff was so random. It stopped after like six weeks, too. There was SO MUCH dropped stuff in that early 2000s period, actually. Most of it bad, but sort of surreal. 

I actually think the Varsity Club coming back as a bunch of middle aged, out of shape athletes still obsessed with their glory days could have worked, but would also have required a level of introspection that Kevin Sullivan is probably not capable of.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

I'm pretty sure that they ran in on a Dark Carnival (the successor to the Dead Pool with just Vampiro and Muta) match, which may have been their debut?  It's all hazy to me.

They did wrestle both Chono & Super J and PG-13, which are some pretty random-ass teams.

Completely forgot about that Dark Carnival nonsense, or my brain folded it into the KISS Demon stuff (facepaint, songs about Detroit...)

I'll never read PG-13 and not think "I was on WrestleMania, bitch"

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I'm wondering if when I actually get to the point where Booker/Steiner and Chavo/Helms are the focal points of the shows if it will actually be good. Did I just imagine that it was good because it was better than what came before it? 

i rewatched that era just a couple years ago. there was a significant improvement when Booker T becomes champ. there's still plenty that's awful, but the whole vibe is just a lot better.

[caley]

19 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

The Varsity Club stuff was so random. It stopped after like six weeks, too. There was SO MUCH dropped stuff in that early 2000s period, actually. Most of it bad, but sort of surreal. 

EDIT: I just saw this late '99 stuff and am already shedding memories of it, but The Dead Pool was around then for maybe two months. Raven did leave and the Dead Pool was then just Vamp, ICP, and Muta. Raven was back wrestling main events for ECW by early 2000. 

Sullivan was in charge from Feb. to May.

Also, I didn't even remember PG-13 having a run as cannon fodder in WCW around that same time, but they did. Regal came back, formed a stable with Dave Taylor and Chris Adams, lost a bunch, then lost a Title-vs-Retirement match for the TV title against Hacksaw like four months later and left again (for WWF, I guess). 

So weird. 

 

[Web Conn]

59 minutes ago, nate said:

At this point, he's right to do whatever.  She's been fuck awful since bringing her LCD pandering and boo-boo face back from her sabbatical.  If I half-assed my way thru my job, I'd have been canned by now.

Maybe that’s her goal but nobody in charge of letting her go seems to realize this.

[(BP)]

25 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

But I also feel like Raven was gone to ECW at that point as a result of a Bischoff meeting where he said anyone was free to go if they didn't want to be there (I recall some reports saying Konnan tried to leave too). 

I think the Konnan thing was that he acted like he was leaving with the Radicalz in solidarity and then backed down when they actually left. 

[SirSmUgly]

20 minutes ago, (BP) said:

I think the Konnan thing was that he acted like he was leaving with the Radicalz in solidarity and then backed down when they actually left. 

Which was dumb because he was overpushed relative to everything, but post-walkout, he's basically cannon fodder as punishment. 

There are two matches that we never got during this time that I honestly would pay to see if we could get video of them from a universe where they did happen, even in the overbooked WCW of this era: Bret/Hogan and Booker/Goldberg.

Also, Disco is the fucking best. He's consistently entertaining, even when he's stuck with that Mamalukes crap. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Smelly McUgly

[ChesterCopperpot]

 

[Web Conn]

Speaking of dropped angles its not WCW but does anybody know in the slightest know where the Jackie Gayda angle in TNA was going. It was late 05/early 06 Jackie showed up saying she had information about Jarrett that wasn't flattering, it then turned into Shelley getting dirt on Gayda for Jarrett, Gayda becoming Jarretts indentured servant which turned into a feud with Gail Kim then Jackie got pregnant and they dropped everything in like May of 06. They never revealed what the dirt was Jackie had on Jarrett or what the dirt Jarrett had on Jackie was they just dropped it.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Web Conn

[LoneWolf&Subs]

2 hours ago, Edwin said:

What did she do now?

Nothing, I think the D.Z. Bot is broken.

[Picklesnbeer]

Hey yo on Wrestle mania 18 I almost cashed out that nite (Got sick took too much cold medicine. It was stupid) . Rock vs Hogan greatest sports entertainment match? Obviously it stuck in my head. 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Picklesnbeer

[Guest Edwin]

Quick rant as I've seen Dutch Mantell constantly brag about his work as a booker in Puerto Rico. However no one says how it was the starting of the decline in WWC as the attendances were constantly decreasing and the cards were exactly the same week in, week out. Attendances declined so bad that fans thought they were going out of business and it had nothing to do with wrestling being a thing of the past in Puerto Rico and more so with the stale product they were putting on as on the other side IWA was thriving with constantly sellouts every weekend with Luke Williams as the booker and Savio Vega and Victor Quiñones. Among the local fans, a lot of the blame for the stale booking was thrown on Dutch, but of course he never talks about that and makes up his own narrative which is not true entirely. I won't put the blame solely on Dutch as I know Carlos Colón and Victor Jovica also had a lot of input in what went down, but Dutch needs to stop acting as if he was doing this incredible booking in Puerto Rico when he truly was not as they were getting beat on a weekly basis until Quiñones passed away and IWA eventually lost money and folded.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Edwin

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, Picklesnbeer said:

Hey yo on Wrestle mania 18 I almost cashed out that nite (Got sick took too much cold medicine. It was stupid) . Rock vs Hogan greatest sports entertainment match? Obviously it stuck in my head. 

.

maybe a few more pickles and a couple less beers before you post next?

[Guest Edwin]

2 hours ago, Picklesnbeer said:

Hey yo on Wrestle mania 18 I almost cashed out that nite (Got sick took too much cold medicine. It was stupid) . Rock vs Hogan greatest sports entertainment match? Obviously it stuck in my head.  .

Hey yo and a Picklesnbeer as a username?

Yeah, I think we've found Scott Hall's account.