APRIL 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[BurningBeard]

6 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Of course Triple H would be the executive who scouts all the top indie and international stars and gives them the opportunity to be signed by WWE

That’s William Regal 

[Ultimo Necro]

I remember seeing Sting on WCW Pro on a Saturday morning after my cartoons and was intrigued.  

The following week I caught a USWA show on some random channel and saw Nightmare Danny Davis and assumed all wrestlers wore face paint. I was hooked. Shortly thereafter I discovered WWF and watched as much WCW and WWF as I could from that point on.
 

[BurningBeard]

11 hours ago, Godfrey said:

HHH is an overachieving midcarder. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a match of his that made me think, “Shit, this dude HAS to be champion/in the main event.”

I’d probably agree with this and it seems I like him a lot more than most. I still maintain he’s the most naturally gifted heel since Rick Rude 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

31 minutes ago, Ultimo Necro said:

I remember seeing Sting on WCW Pro on a Saturday morning after my cartoons and was intrigued.  

The following week I caught a USWA show on some random channel and saw Nightmare Danny Davis and assumed all wrestlers wore face paint. I was hooked. Shortly thereafter I discovered WWF and watched as much WCW and WWF as I could from that point on.
 

Face paint was definitely something that caught my eye as a kid. It never bugged me when it was clear wrestlers were duplicating gimmicks from other performers. It was just like the comics, and I didn’t mind. It was weird when I’d see one wrestler on another program, and recognizing them as another character from the other company. The first I remember that happening for me was Diamond Studd, and Razor. I think my local WCW syndicated package was running behind, because I remember seeing Razor, before Studd.

Edited April 27, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Mr Harms]

12 hours ago, Rehabilitated Rick said:

The license to counter-signal anything Trump does is a phenomena that will be studied for decades

Save the conspiracy theories for rehab, Rick. 

[Ultimo Necro]

40 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Face paint was definitely something that caught my eye as a kid. It never bugged me when it was clear wrestlers were duplicating gimmicks from other performers. It was just like the comics, and I didn’t mind. It was weird when I’d see one wrestler on another program, and recognizing them as another character from the other company. The first I remember that happening for me was Diamond Studd, and Razor. I think my local WCW syndicated package was running behind, because I remember seeing Razor, before Studd.

Yeah, I think that’s something that must be weird for kids today as it’s never really happened for years.  People jumping and being repackaged.  The closest in recent times would be watching AEW and seeing a repackaged Luke Harper. That must be kind of a trip if you are a kid.

I was 11 when Flair went to WWF and literally until the day he showed up on TV I thought Heenan was full of crap.  Flair and Sting were the 2 guys I was sure would never leave WCW.  I was also shocked when Luger moved over and joined the WBF. That really blew my tiny mind and that was before his WCW return which was even more insane!

[MORELOCK]

8 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Of course Triple H would be the executive who scouts all the top indie and international stars and gives them the opportunity to be signed by WWE

2 hours ago, BurningBeard said:

That’s William Regal 

It's extraordinarily petty how wrestling fans target wrestling personalities they don't like and try to strip away any possible credit they could be given for literally anything.

Triple H worked very hard to build NXT, and performed the miracle of keeping Vince from ruining it in the process. No one deserves more credit for NXT than Triple H. You don't have to like his matches or the way the BASTARD just WOULDN'T PUT RVD OVER for this to be true.

[Casey]

2000s WWF was fucking amazing, and Triple H was a big part of that, I don't care what anyone says. Yeah, he was in there with people like Jericho and Benoit and Foley etc etc. But he more than held up his end of those matches. Besides the WrestleMania 2000 fatal four-way, I think I pretty much love every PPV match he had that year. Shit, I even really like that six-man tag from King Of The Ring.

Like, I don't know if "wrestling comfort food" is a thing that exists, but if it does, anything WWF from 2000 makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[Jenalysis]

11 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

I love wrestling for what it is, to me personally, an escape. Chikara and its ants and invisible grenades crack me tf up. Wcw with the hotly contested cruiserweight matches, the squash matches on syndicated weekend shows, that was my jam. Jake the Snake scaring wrestlers shitless with Damian, Warriors crazy over the top promos. That countdown before the next buzzer as your next Royal Rumble entrant walks out from behind the back. ECW and the crazy Awesome Bombs or the tazmissions, Whipwreck and Tajiri, the giant killer Spike Dudley, 3d's for everyone, TOTAL ELIMINATION, all that. AAA with its Hell Brothers and six man tags, Verano de Escandalo, NJPW with the G1 tournament and the crazy fighting spirit never say die battles. 

Tldr I don't watch every last thing, I barely follow weekly shows unless something is heavily pimped with highlights recapped on YouTube, y'know? But for me, as an 80s kid, wrestling is just a getaway from the mundane every day. I love the random matches of recent crowdless shows that remind me of being a kid and sitting back grinning ear to ear at the comedy or being blown away by the athleticism and spectacle.

If I'm going anywhere with this, my question would be- What drew you in when you got into following wrestling weekly, that you had to watch and just couldn't miss the next week? 

I remember it was a Saturday morning for me, and Jake the Snake had just done his short arm clothesline to set up a journeyman guy for the DDT. I was blown away seeing him wipe out the guy, like "Damn, he just killed him on tv and all those fans are cheering for him." That was my 'I don't wanna miss out next week' moment. Just curious what yours might be, is all.

 

Just the crazy violence.  I got to see a lot of late-era World Class, UWF in addition to Crockett, so I got my share of ultraviolence.  I hated WWF style as a kid, I watched but I even liked the AWA stuff more than I liked WWF.

 

I could appreciate a good technician, I remember liking Rick Martal and Mr.Perfect on the WWF side, and Bret made WWF watchable for me (never liked Shaun that much).   I can also appreciate comedy in the aspect of folks still trying to win, or if it's an all-comedy fed like how I see CHIKARA.   That said, give me Darby having his throat rammed into his own skateboard, or good Midnights/Vader squashes (those are my two favorite squash guys/teams)  over anything WWE does these days.

Edited April 27, 2020 by alstein

[LoneWolf&Subs]

4 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Triple H worked very hard to build NXT, and performed the miracle of keeping Vince from ruining it in the process. 

But then he let Cole, Gargano, and Ciampa happen. He ended up doing it himself.

Edited April 27, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[(BP)]

It’s the 21st anniversary of one of my favorite WWE segments ever. 

 

[EricG]

10 hours ago, sabremike said:

Watching the Nick Gage Invitational from 2015 on IWTV. Masada at the end cuts a promo where he uses an anti-gay slur about 37 times (Talking about Roderick Strong and Jimmy Jacobs, two guys who he isn't 1/1000th as talented as) and brags about how the death match stuff is real and how what they do is fake. Hey dummy, the point of wrestling is to simulate getting hurt and not actually to get hurt. I mean I can enjoy this stuff for what it is but I mean don't cut a promo like that. And the crowd at one point in the show doing a chant for Guy Who Killed His Family And Then Killed Himself By Playing Hangman With a Lat Machine, yeah...

Reason number 47 why it's usually pretty hard to watch/enjoy indy stuff like this. This is the show promoted around Nick Gage—who couldn't show up because he was in jail for violating his parole the day of the show.

Roderick Strong likely made more money in 2019 than Masada made in his 18 years. Judging by how many dates he's worked since then, guessing no one really wants to deal with someone who uses derogatory slurs and has minimal talent to begin with, and doesn't really understand the basic concept of pro wrestling. 

[Guest Edwin]

1 hour ago, EricG said:

Judging by how many dates he's worked since then, guessing no one really wants to deal with someone who uses derogatory slurs and has minimal talent to begin with, and doesn't really understand the basic concept of pro wrestling. 

You really think one of the reasons MASADA isn't getting booked is because he uses derogatory slurs? Promoters don't really care about any of that, they just act like they do.

And not to open that can of worms, but that same company books folks who've done far worse than that on a regular level and who are much less talented than MASADA and with an even more limited understanding of the basic concepts of pro-wrestling so yeah, no.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Edwin

[SorceressKnight]

5 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

It's extraordinarily petty how wrestling fans target wrestling personalities they don't like and try to strip away any possible credit they could be given for literally anything.

Triple H worked very hard to build NXT, and performed the miracle of keeping Vince from ruining it in the process. No one deserves more credit for NXT than Triple H. You don't have to like his matches or the way the BASTARD just WOULDN'T PUT RVD OVER for this to be true.

Going further for that, the example for RVD is possibly the worst of the "bu-but I WANNA see my favorite with the title and Triple H wouldn't let me...he BERRIEDED my favorite!" misfires of that era even beyond it. 

Some of Triple H's "graveyard" is things that he genuinely gets a bad rap on (for example, people claiming "but HHH buried Edge!"...uh, Edge wasn't on the same show as Triple H in 2002, he was injured in all of 2003, Triple H wasn't the champion for most of 2004 before Edge turned heel, and when Edge turned heel in 2005 it was off to the races.  Triple H had nothing to do with Edge not being World Champion as a face beforehand). Some of them are things that were fishy but ultimately you can make a case for it. Some, like Benoit, no one could have seen coming for the problems.

RVD, on the other hand, is the one time that WWE didn't give someone the World Title, who made it clear to everyone exactly why he wouldn't be a good World Champion, made it a plot point why he wouldn't be a good choice- hell, the reason he's popular with fans was in why he'd probably be a bad choice as World Champion, and it was completely ignored. "Oh, you mean this guy who has sold for a decade how much he loves smoking marijuana, and is very popular for telling people how much he loves smoking marijuana, and made us want him to be World Champion because of how he tells us he loves smoking marijuana, finally won the World Title and two weeks later gave WWE a huge black eye by being pulled over by police and charged with possession of marijuana that he presumably was planning to smoke? YOU DON'T SAY!"

[Zimbra]

15 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

If I'm going anywhere with this, my question would be- What drew you in when you got into following wrestling weekly, that you had to watch and just couldn't miss the next week? 

I remember staying over a friend's house who was into wrestling and watching Saturday Night's Main Event and being way, way into the Big Boss Man.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

Even RVD talks about why he should have never been the champ.

[Godfrey]

16 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

If I'm going anywhere with this, my question would be- What drew you in when you got into following wrestling weekly, that you had to watch and just couldn't miss the next week? 

I saw a Mr Perfect vignette and couldn't believe how good he was at all sports because I was six. Had to see him wrestle the next week and it grew from there.

[Raziel]

35 minutes ago, Morganti said:

Even RVD talks about why he should have never been the champ.

Hell, RVD *PROVED* why he shouldn't have been champ when he finally did get the belt.

[AxB]

6 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

It's extraordinarily petty how wrestling fans target wrestling personalities they don't like and try to strip away any possible credit they could be given for literally anything.

Triple H worked very hard to build NXT, and performed the miracle of keeping Vince from ruining it in the process. No one deserves more credit for NXT than Triple H. You don't have to like his matches or the way the BASTARD just WOULDN'T PUT RVD OVER for this to be true.

He also built NXT UK, and worked very hard to ensure that Progress and ICW were ruined in the process. Doing as much collateral damage as possible to Rev Pro, OTT, Defiant, Southside and many others along the way.

As far as not putting RVD over, give me five good reasons Booker T lost to H at Mania.

[Guest Edwin]

2 minutes ago, AxB said:

He also built NXT UK, and worked very hard to ensure that Progress and ICW were ruined in the process. Doing as much collateral damage as possible to Rev Pro, OTT, Defiant, Southside and many others along the way.

I keep reading people say this, but no one really explains how and why and I've always seen it as someone getting annoyed WWE signed their favorite indy wrestlers and everyone just repeating the same opinion, but that maybe not be the case.

He built NXT UK, but he's allowed the contracted wrestlers take many indy dates for the same promotions you mentioned. I know WALTER and Dunne have both defended the NXT UK title in various indys, so that's a help. WALTER has even worked for Big Japan.

I'm not entirely in loop as to all of the details, but would love to read as to how exactly did he ruin these indys in the process.

Was it because he signed the best names available and they couldn't complete all of their bookings because they had to attend TV tapings or is it because of something else that isn't public knowledge?

[caley]

7 minutes ago, AxB said:

He also built NXT UK, and worked very hard to ensure that Progress and ICW were ruined in the process. Doing as much collateral damage as possible to Rev Pro, OTT, Defiant, Southside and many others along the way.

As far as not putting RVD over, give me five good reasons Booker T lost to H at Mania.

01. It was probably Vince's decision.  Even without as much clout as he has, I'd imagine Vince still has final say.  As dumb as the build/feud and outcome was, Triple H was working pretty hard to make himself the heel here.  I mean there aren't many wrestlers in the modern era who would let themselves to be booked as, well, "racist" in order to play the heel.  Everything about the way he worked toward WM points to Triple H putting him over, are we sure this wasn't a last minute Vince decision a la Lesnar over Reigns a few years back?

02. Goldberg was coming in, likely with a promised world title and they felt (rightly or wrongly) that Goldberg-Triple H was a bigger match rather than Booker T-Goldberg which was too WCW-y and presumably had happened before.  In WWE's eyes, Goldberg-HHH is more of a "Dream match" than Booker T-Triple H.

03. Booker was likely dealing with an ongoing injury that had WWE concerned about him working a world champ's schedule, seeing as he was out from July/August until October with a back injury.

04. Booker T's feud with Triple H was born of an Evolution beatdown of Goldust, and we all know how Vince feels about his faces having friends.

05. If Booker had won the title, he likely wouldn't have been traded to Smackdown a  year later, likely negating his heel turn which would have meant he never would have become King Booker which was unquestionably the best part of his WWE career so we would all have been the worse for it.

[Sublime]

15 minutes ago, Edwin said:

I'm not entirely in loop as to all of the details, but would love to read as to how exactly did he ruin these indys in the process.

Was it because he signed the best names available and they couldn't complete all of their bookings because they had to attend TV tapings or is it because of something else that isn't public knowledge?

The WWE contracted guys couldn't appear on most/any broadcasts for the indiy companies so they could book them and have them have matches for the live crowds but they couldn't use them for streaming shows so they couldn't really use them to book any storylines.

[Kang]

Asuka vs Nia Jax vs Shayna Baszler tonight on Raw.

[nofuture]

 

[Craig H]

The right way to do that match is to have Nia be the one taking a powder or selling outside and only coming in for giant spots here and there with Shayna being the one to beat Nia.

What we'll wind up with is Shayna or Asuka being the one often selling on the outside while Nia works the bulk of the match. Here's to hoping my cynicism is wrong.