Brawl For All

[Just Dave]

7/13/1998

 

Bart Gunn vs. Bob Holly. Oy. Were they still the New Blackjacks at this point? I'm having to listen without commentary bc my wife is watching "Tiger King." Idk which of us is punishing ourself more. Look at Bart Gunn. Jesus. Could he not speak English or something? I only ask because he checks off every single box on the "Vince McMahon Top Guy" list. Tall. Good physique. Can walk and chew gum. How did he not do more? I don't remember him being actively bad in ring. Was his personality that vacant?

 

Speaking of vacant personalities, here's Bob Holly. Look, I get that Bob was a solid, dependable worker for many years, and I actively enjoyed the "Hardcore Holly" shit with Crash and Molly, but what the hell? I guess they had trouble finding eight guys that wanted to do this.

 

Gunn wins every round, and shows some decent technique. One thing I've noticed consistently through every fight is how hard a time these guys have keeping their hands up. They aren't built for boxing. And there's no shame in that, unless you're asking them to box. Which is what they did. I guess Holly can take some pride in being the only guy in the tourney not to get his head taken off by Bart. 

 

Now we got Severn and Godfather. Imagine being Charles Wright here. Not only were you duped into doing these shoot fights, but you find out your first round opponent is legit one of the most gifted MMA artists of his time. Godfather actually avails himself decently in the first round, sprawling out of several takedown attempts and using his long arms to clinch Severn. He's the first guy in this tourney I've seen have an actual battle plan. He's also the first guy in this tourney to need one. I think you can pinpoint the exact moment in the first round where Severn decides he's withdrawing even if he wins. The fucking senselessness of telling guys in boxing gloves to take each other down. Although it might've had something of an equalizing effect for untrained guys who weren't gonna try takedowns anyway. Severn wins round two as well, though Godfather lands a couple of big punches, although they seemed to only anger Dan Severn. Severn lays on Godfather after a takedown attempt, I guess to run out the clock? Jesus this is boring. Why did I do this again? Oh yeah. Quarantine. 

The "we want wrestling" chants start in between rounds two and three. The wife went to pick up Pad Thai so I got the sound on. Imagine that. Fans coming to a WWE show don't want to see shoot fighting. Hmmm. The third round is more of the same. I typed this sentence before watching the third round. Both guys are clearly frustrated, but there's nothing for Godfather to be embarrassed about. He went the distance with a UFC champ. Severn looks pissed and embarrassed. More in a bit.

 

 

[DreamBroken]

3 minutes ago, just drew said:

7/13/1998

I only ask because he checks off every single box on the "Vince McMahon Top Guy" list. Tall. Good physique. Can walk and chew gum. How did he not do more? I don't remember him being actively bad in ring.

Have wondered the same for years as well, always wanted him to get a push coming out of all this. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, DreamBroken said:

Have wondered the same for years as well, always wanted him to get a push coming out of all this. 

I watched WM 11 weeks back. He literally has his lines written on his hands and delivers it in the most nervous, panicky manner possible to the point Billy cuts him off. He had the worst promo that night until later when Nash cuts a promo and screws up his lines. I am not saying you can't improve in three and a half years, but he was going to need a mouthpiece. Bad. I cannot imagine as WWF became more talking oriented from 1997 on Bart Gunn out there with the best guys in the business. Bart was a good worker and should have stayed in a tag team at all times. Every guy with a million dollar body shouldn't be pushed to the moon.

[HumanChessgame]

If you want to listen to Jim Cornette shit on the idea, it's actually one of his more reasonable rants

 

[Just Dave]

7/20/1998

 

Our last first round match is "Dr. Death" Steve Williams vs. Jean Pierre Lafitte. Was Lafitte legit missing an eye? Because if he wasn't, that's a dick move to make him fight with an eyepatch. This was my first exposure to Steve Williams, and I had no idea what the hype was about. Both guys come out swinging. I think Lafitte figured his best chance was to catch Williams early. Both guys land a takedown, but Williams is already gassed. I saw some earlier posts about Ross being a huge fan of Dr. Death. I wonder if it goes back to their Oklahoma roots and Bill Watts being a big Steve Williams guy. Ross has always been Watts' biggest disciple in terms of booking philosophy and talent scouting. Williams checked off all the boxes at that point; Legit tough guy. College legend. Japanese pedigree. It should've worked. But Williams wasn't in shape and there did not appear to be a clear vision for who Williams was to the WWE at that point. But I digress. Round 1 is pretty even. Round 2 is a slaughter. Williams dominates and throws a few cheap shots while doing it. My theory is that he received instruction before the fight to go out and separate himself from the field. Round 3 is more of the same. Williams runs away with the fight, but instills zero confidence in his prospects moving forward.

 

I believe that's it for the first round fights. There was allegedly one "untelevised" fight, but I don't have the patience to try to find out what happened. Next round coming soon.

[(BP)]

Bart and Bob were The New Midnight Express. Bradshaw and Windham were The New Blackjacks, which is how JBL ended up box dying his hair black for like six years.

The gloves were heavier than those used by most boxers, which is why even Mero struggled with them.

Godfather really got thrown under the bus getting Severn in the first round since this was still pretty recently after he’d been presented as a shoot fighter. 

Also, looking up Wright to see if he had any actual fighting experience, and between WWF stints he wrestled for Otto Wanz’s Catch Wrestling Association as Papa Shango? I don’t know much about CWA, but that seems incongruous. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by (BP)

[Elsalvajeloco]

The closest thing to fighting experience Godfather had was fighting people in the clubs he worked for in Vegas. That's about it.

[Brian Fowler]

Mero, Blackman, Williams and Severn had some legit combat background. I think the rest were just various forms of "tough guys" 

Like, Godfather probably was real good at taking down belligerent drunks trying to grab the dancers. And I'm sure Bradshaw and Holly had their share of bar fights. 

Doc got hurt and tried to keep fighting, then got knocked out. Mero was a flop. Severn quit after one fight, and I think Blackman got hurt. So... Yikes.

I remember so many guys getting blown up by the end of the first round. You want to talk about business exposing? Guys who typically wrestled 5 minute tv matches and 8 minutes on ppv didn't have the wind to do three one minute rounds of this. 

[(BP)]

Just watching guys who shrugged off worked bare fist punches every week get totally rocked by each other while wearing gloves is something else. 

[Just Dave]

7/27/1998

 

Our first second round match is Williams/Gunn. This encounter is long cited as the bout that turned this entire thing. Objectively, this first round was the most interesting round of any of the fights yet. Williams comes out on a mission, and dominates early. I really think Williams was shocked that Gunn made it through the first round. I also think Williams understood that his future as a main eventer in WWE depended on what he did in this fight. Round two is much more even. Gunn looks determined and Williams runs out of gas mid round. Towards the end of round two, Gunn manages a takedown on Williams, and I think that moment is when Williams knew he wasn't gonna win that fight. Scorecards be damned. Gunn seems to honestly believe winning this thing could kick-start his career, and Round three reflects that. Down ten points, Bartholomew W. Gunn fights the round of his life, absolutely bulldozing Steve Williams before knocking him out with about ten seconds left in the round. In fairness to both these guys, the crowd legitimately got into this. This bout meant something to both guys, and they fought accordingly. I'm not even gonna shit on this. As bad as both guys' technique was, they showed a lot of guts. This fight has been by far the highlight of this tournament, and is worth an earnest and sincere entry of it's own...
 

[HumanChessgame]

In his book Holly claimed to have competed in amateur toughman fights for several years but that's one of those things that you can't really verify.

[Brian Fowler]

12 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

In his book Holly claimed to have competed in amateur toughman fights for several years but that's one of those things that you can't really verify.

Fair enough. I see no reason to doubt him, anyway.

[MORELOCK]

The "Jean Pierre LaFitte" name wouldn't have been used for this run - this is fresh off the last Quebecers run right after Jacques Rougeau went into semi-retirement. And yes, he is shoot missing an eye.

The reason this is full of lower tier talent is because it was on a "volunteer" basis. I'm betting most of these guys knew they weren't going to make TV if they didn't sign up. Look how many of them are gone within a year or so: Hawk, Savio, Canterbury, Brakus, Mero, 8-Ball, Severn, Williams, Pierre, Scorpio, even Bart. Droz's accident was about a year later, too, so only Blackman, Godfather, Bradshaw, and Holly would stick around for much longer. 

[AxB]

Apparently the Brawl for All was Bradshaw's idea... sort of. He was pitching the idea of a big man tournament because he thought the idea of having some slobberknockers would be fun. But while pitching the idea he accidentally said the words Tough Man, and someone took that to mean he was pitching an actual Tough Man Contest. I don't doubt that JR was a big voice in deciding to do it the way they did it though, considering what a Legit Sportz~! mark he is. 

[Just Dave]

8/3/1998

 

Our second Quarterfinal is 2 Cold Scorpio vs. the Godfather. Dan Severn has withdrawn from the tourney, in maybe the only convincing promo he ever cur in WWE, and Scorpio is here because he won the untelevised match against one of the Harris Boys. I would've paid money to watch Scorp beat the shit out of a white supremacist, but alas, there is no entertainment value to be had in this tournament. Godfather brings some ho's, so at least there was something appealing to the eye here. Round one was kind of a bore, as you can tell no one wants to be the next guy to get knocked out on WWE programming. Scorpio and Godfather actually put some time in here. It wasn't good, but they took it seriously, save for the ho's staying out in Godfather's corner. The fight ends with Godfather winning a decision, and it wouldn't shock me to find out that both guys agreed beforehand not to hurt each other. Also, this is the "choppee choppee your pee pee!" episode of Raw, so this fight was only the second or third dumbest thing on this show...

[Just Dave]

1 hour ago, (BP) said:

Bart and Bob were The New Midnight Express. Bradshaw and Windham were The New Blackjacks, which is how JBL ended up box dying his hair black for like six years.

The gloves were heavier than those used by most boxers, which is why even Mero struggled with them.

Godfather really got thrown under the bus getting Severn in the first round since this was still pretty recently after he’d been presented as a shoot fighter. 

Also, looking up Wright to see if he had any actual fighting experience, and between WWF stints he wrestled for Otto Wanz’s Catch Wrestling Association as Papa Shango? I don’t know much about CWA, but that seems incongruous. 

I knew that. I just forgot. Ugh. What a weird-ass time.

[Eivion]

Wright and Scorpio strike me as guys who could easily be buddies so somehow it isn't surprising they wouldn't want to hurt each other.

22 minutes ago, AxB said:

Apparently the Brawl for All was Bradshaw's idea... sort of. He was pitching the idea of a big man tournament because he thought the idea of having some slobberknockers would be fun. But while pitching the idea he accidentally said the words Tough Man, and someone took that to mean he was pitching an actual Tough Man Contest. I don't doubt that JR was a big voice in deciding to do it the way they did it though, considering what a Legit Sportz~! mark he is. 

This is disappointing to hear. Bradshaw's hoss tournament sounds way the hell better and more fun.

[(BP)]

1 minute ago, just drew said:

I knew that. I just forgot. Ugh. What a weird-ass time.

I was just thinking about how many “New” tag teams there were around that time after I came across on old WWF magazine piece on Al Snow as Leif Cassidy in the New Rockers with Jannetty

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, (BP) said:

I was just thinking about how many “New” tag teams there were around that time after I came across on old WWF magazine piece on Al Snow as Leif Cassidy in the New Rockers with Jannetty

Jannetty was gone (again) by 1997 and he randomly appears at Slamboree 1998 as part of that cruiserweight battle royal (ROCK ROCK TIL YOU DROP MARTY JANNETTY~!). The New Rockers is 96 because I remember Marty and Leif being part of a Survivor Series 96 team in the opener IIRC. Even then it was a gimmick time forgot, and Marty looked like he had been on a long bender.

 

[Matt D]

2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Jannetty was gone (again) by 1997 and he randomly appears at Slamboree 1998 as part of that cruiserweight battle royal (ROCK ROCK TIL YOU DROP MARTY JANNETTY~!). The New Rockers is 96 because I remember Marty and Leif being part of a Survivor Series 96 team in the opener IIRC. Even then it was a gimmick time forgot, and Marty looked like he had been on a long bender.

 

There's a weird two week mini feud from January 98 with Raven and Jannetty too (Where the flock interfered with his match with Benoit) and then they had a match the next week.

[Just Dave]

More tomorrow. Gotta go to bed, since I've been deemed "essential" and have to be there tomorrow...

[(BP)]

17 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Jannetty was gone (again) by 1997 and he randomly appears at Slamboree 1998 as part of that cruiserweight battle royal (ROCK ROCK TIL YOU DROP MARTY JANNETTY~!). The New Rockers is 96 because I remember Marty and Leif being part of a Survivor Series 96 team in the opener IIRC. Even then it was a gimmick time forgot, and Marty looked like he had been on a long bender.

 

Was the gimmick presented as ironic on TV? Because I got the sense that they saw how popular the Brady Bunch movies were and decided to do a delusional stuck in time thing, but that may have just been the magazine writers going into business for themselves. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, (BP) said:

Was the gimmick presented as ironic on TV? Because I got the sense that they saw how popular the Brady Bunch movies were and decided to do a delusional stuck in time thing, but that may have just been the magazine writers going into business for themselves. 

It may have been at one point, but by the end of 1996, I think they had given up on doing that. Either that or it was tongue in cheek like the NWA revival later on.

[Brian Fowler]

Janetty was really fun during his brief WCW stint. Seemed like it breathed a little life back into him that teaming with Al Snow had sapped away.

[Elsalvajeloco]

19 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Janetty was really fun during his brief WCW stint. Seemed like it breathed a little life back into him that teaming with Al Snow had sapped away.

See I vaguely remember Marty's run during that time. I definitely remember he was there. However, that was during WCW's "Have wrestling boots, will travel" hiring phase where they had various guys up and down the card cycle in and out with injuries/personal issues/drug & alcohol issues/pregnant wives, and guys (I have to say girls too because of Debbie Combs' infamous Nitro 97 appearance vs. Akira Hokuto where it fucking legitimately looked like she came out of the year 1980) would show up at tapings and house shows looking to get in on that Turner money. While I remember bits and pieces of that run, I cannot say I remember more about that than Martel's abbreviated run at that same time.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco