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(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020


Matt D

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4 hours ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Olsen Twins vs. Up in Smoke from Cibernetico and Robin, September 22nd 2007. I hadn’t seen the match in years but remember being blown away by it and was curious if it held up.

Not I'm my file collection.  I bet it's on Chikaratopia though.  Might also be on iwtv now that they are partnered with Smart Mark

Update! Not in iwtv but is on Chikaratopia

I might sub for a month and play catch up/rewatch old favorites.

Edited by Morganti
Did some research
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Eddie Kingston vs. Mike Quackenbush [CHIKARA] November 13, 2011

Well that was really good. For a first CHIKARA match, and a first Quack match, this wasn't what I expected and is definitely in my wheelhouse. The story is Eddie has a semi-torn ACL so to add to the drama of this being for the first CHIKARA Grand Championship we've also got a major injury. This is also only months after Larry Sweeney committed suicide, Eddie's hero Tommy Dreamer is his second, and though Mike is CHIKARA founder etc. etc. he's working heel to tear apart Eddie's knee to win. So despite a brief, heavy open for him throwing a bunch of Tenryu chops where he keeps pulling Quack up off the ground Quack goes straight to the knee and finds a zillion complicated ways to torture it for the entire time. Eddie of course sells like a motherfucker and tries to find gaps in the punishment. The only highflying is Quack hitting a nasty full-body-weight Swanton; eventually the tables turn with Kingston getting ahold of Quack's leg as well and starts beating it up. They start wearing out doing weak slap exchanges that build back up from nothing as the locker room empties and surrounds the ring. Finally after trying to take the leg out with I believe a reverse Texas Cloverleaf Eddie nails two backfists for the pin and the win. Just perfectly timed, nice rise and fall to the action, excellent selling from both guys (Quack going goofy for some of King's strikes should be noted too), they just told a really good story here that got a ton of appreciation from the fans and the workers. And they deserved it. 

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2 hours ago, Pete said:

The 1995 FMW Grand Slam tournament was a lot of fun because you had guys like Matsunaga, Super Leather and Kanemura rolling up their sleeves and doing a bunch of straight wrestling along with Hayabusa, Oya, Gladiator etc. Lots of strong style, hail-fellow-well-met stuff. A neat look at the group after Onita's "retirement."

...and here's this 

 

 

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I loved that era of FMW. But then the promotion suddenly started aping the Attitude Era instead, and the head booker was part of the dominant heel faction and was clearly having a bit too much fun.

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On 4/23/2020 at 4:47 AM, supremebve said:

@gordi FMW wasn't my favorite promotion, but when it's good, it's pretty damn good.

 

 

I feel like I should have hated this. As I said, "post-1999 self-conscious epic 'please give us five stars' type matches" are precisely what I am not in the mood for at the moment. This match is from 1998, which according to my research is pre-1999 but holy moly is this ever an epic match.  It is so very epic. It is, in fact, not easy to imagine a match being more epic than this one. 

It takes this form:

There's an opening back-and-forth that includes Hayabusa trapping Tanaka in a cross arm breaker. Then Tanaka works over Hayabusa's leg with a variety of holds for four minutes or so. Then Hayabusa does the same to Tanaka's arm, for about the same amount of time. Then, almost exactly at the ten-minute mark of the match, they shift into big bomb/high risk move/2.9 count mode and keep it up for fifteen plus minutes. In a certain sense it's as if two guys are doing a live action recreation of a Fire Pro or King of Colosseum match that got a 98 or 99 score.  

Does Hayabusa ever sell the leg at all, once they switch into high gear? No. Of course he doesn't. Tanaka sells his damaged arm for several seconds, at least... but if you are a person who is bothered by that kind of stuff I would not recommend that you watch this match (unless maybe you want to feel very angry for some reason).

Also, some of the bumps these men take are flat-out harrowing. 

Sincerely, on paper, I feel like I should have hated this. I feel like I should be angry @supremebve for recommending it to me. But... I loved it. I loved every second of it. I watched it twice, all the way through, and loved it both times.

What the hell is going on here? 

Well, for one thing, I am positively predisposed toward Masato Tanaka because he is one of only a few well-known pro wrestlers from Wakayama, which is my wife's home prefecture and a place that I feel a strong connection to. 

I also tend to give Hayabusa the benefit of the doubt because of this thought experiment: If I had been following FMW when Onita "retired" and Hayabusa was given the impossible task of replacing one of the most charismatic performers of all time... if I'd been paying attention while Hayabusa tried to keep his home promotion alive by busting his ass and putting it all on the line time and time and time again... I think he might have been my absolute favourite Japanese wrestler back then.

I also like this particular match-up. It kind of feels like an off-brand version of Misawa vs Liger (and I mean that as a sincere compliment).

Also, and I think this is important, Hayabusa and Tanaka pull off some very nice transitions between the various stages, so even though the match is very compartmentalized it manages to flow quite nicely. They transition into the leg work with a sick low dropkick to Hayabusa's knee. The arm work begins when Hayabusa reverses an Irish whip into an arm-wringer take-down. At the ten-minute mark Hayabusa goes for a springboard move only to get caught and powerslammed by Tanaka, which is the beginning of the big bombs section. They even do a nice transition during the epic fifteen plus minutes, around the 20-minute mark of the match, when Hayabusa is going for a top rope move, but' he's moving just a little slowly and has his back to Tanaka, who is painfully struggling to his feet...

Also, both of these guys sell exhaustion really well, while also showing the sheer determination to keep fighting. In fact, it might be reasonable to surmise that they were not selling so much as they were legitimately exhausted and also legitimately determined to keep going on. 

There are so very many One! Two!...OOOHHHhhhhh!! spots in the last ten minutes of this match. That has become a very annoying cliche recently. Here, though - even the second time through - I honestly felt like "That has to be it" on several of the near-falls. Tanaka doesn't just take a big move, lie there, and kick out at the last moment. He takes a big move, bellows in pain, grabs his head, and then kicks out at the last moment. It makes a difference. They pull off a lot of very good little things to differentiate one big move from another and give you that "this has to be the one" feeling: A sudden desperate lunge or a particularly nasty cover...

I think guys like Gargano, Ciampa, Edge, Orton,  Kenny, Okada, and so on are all somewhere in the "really very good to absolutely great" range as pro wrestlers but I think that even they could learn something from the exhaustion, determination, and the little things that Hayabusa and Tanaka pull off in the lengthy epic sequence here. What I hate is not epic matches, but self-conscious epic matches and the long-story-short version of why I loved this is that it honestly didn't feel self-conscious. It felt honest, and well-earned. 

Edited by gordi
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On 4/20/2020 at 7:58 AM, Goodear said:

Nah I'm a dope.  Here, enjoy Windham v Rotunda.  I regard The Varsity Club as the best stuff of Rotunda's career and (spoiler) this is abdominal stretch free. 

 

Ah, a match that I've seen at least two or three times here, most recently in my 1988-1990 rewatch of NWA/WCW that I did across Worldwide, Pro, Saturday Night, and PPVs about maybe five or six years ago. 

Barry Windham vs. Mike Rotunda, NWA Television Championship Match

THE U.S. EXPRESS EXPLODES

Rotunda's Varsity Club years are pretty highly spoken of, but I personally don't enjoy him much more than I did as plodding IRS or VK Wallstreet...or as a part of the U.S. Express, for that matter.

This match is short and to the point because of the TV breaks/clipping. Rotunda gets outwrestled a bit to begin with on the mat, and then Windham hits him with some higher-impact offense, including a nicely-angled back suplex, before Rotunda bails to talk strategy with Kevin Sullivan. He takes the advantage for a brief time, but after a commercial break, Rotunda is working a wristlock. Well, it's not a rope-assisted abdominal stretch, I guess. Then, Rotunda goes up top, which honestly, I'd expect Ric Flair to have a better chance to hit a move from there than Rotunda. Windham whiffs on a kneedrop and sells the injury to seemingly set up for the finish (but actually doesn't have anything to do with the finish, so this bit of overselling comes off as weird in retrospect).  Rotunda goes through a few offensive moves, Sullivan gets some shots in on the outside, and Windham gets draped across the guardrail by Rotunda. 

We get another commercial break, and when we come back, everybody's down inside the ring. Man, I forgot how bad the timing was on some of these breaks. Anyway, superplex by Windham, the ring breaks (which is a cool effect), Windham hits the lariat, and Rick Steiner causes the DQ before Windham gets choked out with a coat hanger (badass). Luger comes out to save his boy. 

Nothing match, really, with the ring break being a cool visual. Windham's fine here, but seeing Luger come out made me want to watch the Windham turn on Luger/joining of the Four Horsemen, which probably is the most that I've enjoyed Windham (a very good wrestler, but without any type of charisma that captures me except for in that aforementioned coming heel run) in his career. 

Rotunda is just a staggeringly mediocre wrestler in all phases of his career. He's not totally objectionable or shitty. He's competent. He just never does anything that is exciting. He's just boring as shit, except for when Rick Steiner turns face and wins the TV title from him, and that's all Rick Steiner being so likable (well, at that point in his career, at least). 

 

 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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I didn't receive a match to review but I'll review one I watched this week. 

IWS Born to Bleed 2006, 11/4/2006, Beef Wellington vs Excess, 2/3 Falls, available on iwtv.com

This is part of a feud that appears to have been going on for most of the year. Wellington is mostly known for his comedy wrestling but here it is a straight match and they began immediately. Excess takes the first fall via roll up after out wrestling Wellington. Excess gets over zealous and begins brawling with Wellington. A bloody  Wellington is able to get the upper hand with a desperation inverted tombstone piledriver to take the second fall. The third fall continues the brawling but Wellington is too worn down. IWS is a somewhat hard-core wrestling promotion I should add. Excess piledrives Wellington through a table in the ring to win the third and final fall. 

This was a good match, I was presently surprised. I was always surprised Excess never got more ROH appearances than his match at Fate of an Angel as a one off part of Lacey's Angels. Wellington avoided any comedy here and it made for a great match. Commentary was a little lacking, I would like to have known more about the history between them. I had to look it up myself. The second fall dragged a slight bit when they fought on the floor but it paid off in the final fall which I feel is all you can ask for this match type. 

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Week whatever (I'll figure it out next week)

Gordi
Goodear

Matt D
OctopusCinema

Tim Evans
Smelly McUgly

Ace
supremebve

Six String Orchestra
The Man Known as Dan

AxB
Curt McGirt

We haven't heard from Super Ape or bigbosselli for a bit so they're still paired with each other with the same deal. If one posts and the other doesn't by mid-week, I'll fill the gap.

Remember, we're liable to have repeats from here on out (and most people are delivering and people seem to be having fun with it still, so we'll keep going for now). It's most important to give your partner a match.

@OctopusCinema, Will try to get you one today.

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@Goodear I enjoyed the analysis you did of that sitcom 6-man tag with Vader (that, I believe, Octopus recommended to me) a while back, so I thought I'd give you a 6-man tag to review. A lot of the famous/classic ones are pretty long so instead please choose one of these two shorter not quite classic matches, each of which is pretty interesting in its own way.

 

 

 

Edited by gordi
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On 4/20/2020 at 7:17 AM, gordi said:

@supremebve You've said that "...All Japan in the 90s is the absolute peak of professional wrestling" (which, yep) and if I remember correctly you've also said that shoot style is a blind spot because you don't really get it. 

Allow me to present a possible gateway drug into the joys of shoot style: Kawada vs Albright '95!

It's very much a hybrid of 90s AJPW and the UWFi style. In a way, it stands out for what they don't do: There is almost no rope-running (Kawada's late-match lariats are what make this, definitively, a hybrid match rather than a straight-up shoot-style match). They don't jump off the turnbuckles or do any flying at all. They don't brawl on the outside. Kawada tosses in some of his signature stuff, but they stick to strikes, submission grappling, and realistic suplexes with a lot of struggle (which is what makes shoot style, well, shoot style: Paring pro wresting down to the stuff that would make sense in a pure combat sport and sticking to KO or submission finishes). In my opinion Kawada adjusts beautifully to working that way. I'm looking forward to reading your opinion. 

(note: I almost gave you one of the matches from the Vader vs Takada series that was my  personal gateway into shoot style, but I think you might get more of a kick from seeing the many subtle differences between this match and the 90s All Japan tag you reviewed last week).

 

 

 

To start, I’d like to give some background on my opinion of shoot style wrestling as a genre.  I generally hate it, because it falls into two different categories.

  •   A fake fight where people are doing legitimate shoot fighting moves that don’t work like they work in a shoot fight.
    • I don’t like this because properly applied these moves finish fights 100% of the time.  Either the fight ends because the person taps out, or the person is choked out and/or severely injured.  My MMA fandom is probably responsible for this, but wrestling has a wealth of cool submissions that work in the context of a wrestling match.  There is no reason to use submissions that don’t work in that context.
  •   A match where the shoot fighter beats the bejesus out of the professional wrestler like professional wrestling is fake and shouldn’t be respected.
    • Professional wrestling is fake, but if I’m watching pro wrestling I like pro wrestling.  The beauty of pro wrestling is that, we all know it’s bullshit.  We understand that an MMA fighter is legitimately better at fighting than a pro wrestler, but we don’t care.  If you put a shoot fighter in a pro wrestling match, I want to see how the shoot fighter would fit into the over the top world of professional wrestling.

So, with that said let me tell you why I loved this match.  Gary Albright is treated like a legitimately dangerous amateur wrestler, who if allowed to compete in an amateur wrestling context, will destroy Toshiaki Kawada.  Except, this isn’t an amateur wrestling match, it is a pro wrestling match and he’s got to deal with the baddest motherfucker to ever put on tights and lace up boots kicking him in the fucking face.  Another great thing about this match is that Albright’s not trying to act like he’s above this shit.  He’s treating Kawada like the threat we know him to be, and he’s very weary of giving Kawada any openings. 

Albright’s offense looks fucking devastating throughout the match.  He throws some of the most beautifully violent looking suplexes you’ll ever see.  His powerslam looked like he was trying to drive Kawada through the mat.  He didn’t do a whole lot, but what he did looked fucking phenomenal.  His offense consisted of big throws and submissions, and it all worked in this context.  He went for a couple armbars, but Kawada didn’t just lay in the hold as Albright cranked his elbow the wrong way.  Kawada treated those armbars like he couldn’t waste a single second getting his arm free.  My favorite thing in this match is that so much was done to make Gary Albright feel like he was a credible threat to Kawada, but none of it came at the expense of Kawada’s credibility. 

I don’t know if I’d go as far as calling this shoot style, but if I was starting a shoot style promotion, I’d make this required watching for everyone I hired.  I’d want my workers to treat submissions as imminently dangerous.  I’d also want to treat pro wrestling as a different martial art worthy or respect.  Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy suplexes as much as the next guy…probably more honestly, but if you have the opportunity to powerbomb a motherfucker, then by all means powerbomb that motherfucker.  This match feels like it could provide a foundation to a style of wrestling that I’d be very interested in watching.  With that said, this could just be an example of Toshiaki Kawada being one of the best professional wrestlers who have ever lived, and this shit is only effective because he’s fucking amazing.  Either way, I loved this match and I’d love to see more matches like it.

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@Tim Evans I've been watching random Nitro and Thunder, so you're going to watch some random Nitro and/or Thunder. 

I'm going to do something unorthodox here because once 1998 hits, the match times in the major American companies gets shorter, so I'm going to drop two matches from the same two dudes within three weeks of one another. Watch one or watch both and do a little compare-contrast action; it's entirely up to you:

Chris Jericho vs. Juventud Guerrera x2

From 4.6.98

 

From 4.20.98

There's a lot of Jericho talking shit in these, which to me adds to the enjoyment, but of course, feel free to skip and watch the micro-matches if you'd like. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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So I've been watching mostly 2007 WWE ppvs lately and since I think you've probably seen most of it my pick is this for @Smelly McUgly

Glamour Boy Shane vs Jeff Jarrett IWA title vs NWA title from Summer Attitude 2003. One of my favorite feuds from a really great period in Puerto Rican wrestling history.

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@OctopusCinema

I'm very tempted to make you do what I did this last week and watch the 83 Funk vs Bock match with both the HH and the Pro shot versions split screen. I think I'm going to pass on that though because it involves some re-syncing. 

Have you seen this? It was on the DVDVR PR set but I'm not sure what you've seen and what you haven't?

 

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Hey guys. Sorry I checked out for a bit. Been up and down. Gonna dig through and see what I missed and get caught up. Hope I didn’t screw anything up with the flow of things. 

Haven't seen the PR match. Gonna include that in my catching up marathon.

edit: sorry @Six String Orchestra. You deserved better. 

Edit 2: @Matt D ,

 Let me know if you’ve seen this. Black Terry and Negro Navarro vs Hechicero and Virus. I dig deep through the Youtube machine for a random enough match of people I feel you dig/ might dig. Pretty fun watch.

Edited by OctopusCinema
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I think about half the group is lagging a bit, which is ok. That happens almost always by this point in the process. I'll do a regroup by the end of the week to gauge how people are doing moving forward.

I was definitely aware of that match when it happened but I think in the gap between when it happened and when it was posted, it fell through my cracks. I don't see any sign that I actually saw it so I'm happy to do so now. Thanks!

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On 4/26/2020 at 10:57 AM, gordi said:

@Goodear I enjoyed the analysis you did of that sitcom 6-man tag with Vader (that, I believe, Octopus recommended to me) a while back, so I thought I'd give you a 6-man tag to review. A lot of the famous/classic ones are pretty long so instead please choose one of these two shorter not quite classic matches, each of which is pretty interesting in its own way.

Hey Gordi,

Thanks for the picks.  Can you give me someone you'd be interested in watching?  I will hunt for a match based on that if it's okay with you.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Or you will get squash match jamboree ?

Edited by Goodear
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29 minutes ago, Goodear said:

Hey Gordi,

Thanks for the picks.  Can you give me someone you'd be interested in watching?  I will hunt for a match based on that if it's okay with you.

Thanks!

100 % OK with me! Bryan Danielson, Johnny Saint, Mexican Minis, Dick Togo, Terry Funk, Dynamite Kansai, Jim Breaks, The British Bulldogs, or John Tenta, please.

EDIT: yeah, I'd be down with a squash match grab bag, too.

Edited by gordi
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33 minutes ago, gordi said:

100 % OK with me! Bryan Danielson, Johnny Saint, Mexican Minis, Dick Togo, Terry Funk, Dynamite Kansai, Jim Breaks, The British Bulldogs, or John Tenta, please.

 

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Well, a lot of the things I haven't seen a lot of, what I have seen I haven't particularly liked, so...

I really loved pre-Noah split AJPW. But after the split, real life stuff prevented me from being able to follow either one very closely (and stuff like Hustle and Zero One passed me by for the same reason). So that might be worth exploring.

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