(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020

[supremebve]

2 hours ago, gordi said:

@Smelly McUgly I guess supreme hasn't had time to review Ebessan vs Kuishinbo Kamen. Would you like to take a crack at it? If not (or if supreme still wants to give it a go) I'm happy to pick something else for you.

I'm working on it.  Be patient with me, I'll post it today.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

20 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I'm working on it.  Be patient with me, I'll post it today.

 

@supremebve  Cool. Looking forward to it.

OK, @Smelly McUgly I wasn't able to bring myself to watch the Owen doc, but how about an Owen match from Stampede?

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by gordi

[AxB]

41 minutes ago, Matt D said:

@AxB

Alright, are you ready for some super technical French Catch that should seem quite familiar to you given your background?

I am, yes.

I'll post my pick for you when I get home from work.

[Matt D]

11 minutes ago, AxB said:

I am, yes.

I'll post my pick for you when I get home from work.

There are so many and they are so great, but this was an excellent technical, mostly clean match that got heated when it ought to have. The match starts around the 8 minute mark.

 

[supremebve]

@gordi

Osaka Pro - Ebessan vs. Kuishinbo Kamen 2/3 Falls Match

I’m going to start this review by saying, I’ve never watched an Osaka Pro match, let alone an Ebessan or Kuishinbo Kamen match, so I have no context whatsoever for what is going on.  I’m just going to give you my thoughts as I’m watching it.  First, you have to love the elaborate, over the top entrances for both guys.  If you’re going to be silly, be all the way silly in my book. 

The first fall of this match goes something like this…Ebessan tries a body slam, falls down and gets his shoulders pinned for a 3 count.  I can’t lie, that was hilarious.  It’s so simple, and so stupid, that you can’t help but laugh.  I didn’t expect it at all, and I was immediately all in on the rest of this match.

  The second fall is Ebessan, going for the exact same body slam, falling down, and barely getting his shoulder up before he gets pinned again.  Then, Kamen works a wrist lock and Ebessan does a bunch of rolling escapes, only for Kamen to apply the wrist lock again as soon as he stands up.  It’s absurd, but absurd is the point.  The second fall ends after Ebessan finally escapes the wrist lock and rolls Kamen up for the three count. 

The third fall is where this really picks up.  After some shenanigans with the referee Ebessan and Kamen work a slow motion version of a puro slugfest.  There is a strike exchange, that Ebessan wins with a spin kick followed by a slow motion Shining Wizard.  It’s basically what Orange Cassidey does every week, but in the context of a puroresu match.  If the match ended there, this would have been a fun little comedy match, but then they decide to actually start wrestling…and they’re both pretty damn good at it.  They pull out some fun slams, suplexes, ad some truly impressive high flying moves (my favorite was the tope into the head slap). 

This was a fantastic comedy match.  Everything worked.  I honestly don’t like most comedic wrestling, because they either do things that aren’t funny to begin with, or they take the one little joke they have and run it into the ground.  This did none of that.  They had a couple really funny bits, and then moved onto wrestling before the humor overstayed it’s welcome.  This is a match I would have never watched, and probably never even heard of outside of this project, but I really enjoyed this. 

[DJ Hero Morganti]

Aight, what kind of match you want from me @supremebve My personal tastes lean toward any and everything, but if you have some idea of what you want, i can get you something I like in that same wheelhouse.  Otherwise ima make you review OC vs Colt over a beer.

[Octopus]

Yo @Morganti, I got thrown off by this week being a weird one for me. I’m still going to review your match tonight or tomorrow. 

This week I got my friend @Curt McGirt! I have a few ideas and I’m going to hit you up with one tonight.

Edited May 24, 2020 by OctopusCinema

[AxB]

@Matt D here you go:

Johnny Kidd vs Jordon Breaks. Under the rounds system. 2019.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

5 hours ago, OctopusCinema said:

Yo @Morganti, I got thrown off by this week being a weird one for me. I’m still going to review your match tonight or tomorrow. 

This week I got my friend @Curt McGirt! I have a few ideas and I’m going to hit you up with one tonight.

No Problem it was either that or the CM Punk Delirious 1 hr broadway

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

15 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

@gordi I'm going to do something different. IIRC, you said that you didn't watch modern WWE. I don't either at this point, but before I stopped, I saw what I would term as the best/my favorite match of the decade (and honestly, might be of the millennium as well) for the company. I would love to see what you think about it, coming from such a different wrestling fandom POV: 

 

 

@supremebve That was a really good review! Glad you enjoyed it.

 

@Smelly McUgly 

I've got a ton of preconceived notions about modern WWE and their go-go-go big bomb overkill dozens of kick-outs main event big match epic epic epic style. I was expecting this to be that and I was kind of looking forward to complaining about it while trying to keep an open mind.

Imagine my surprise when this match turned out to be built around old-fashioned body part psychology! I was not expecting that at all. And these two young ladies did a tremendous job of working in that style. There was remarkable athleticism, a blistering but not frenetic pace, stiffness, stuff that looked like it really hurt, some pretty damned good selling... 

Here's a kind of pro wrestling hipster complaint you often see online: Why do all that limb work just to blow it off at the end? or maybe Why do all that limb work for it not to lead into the finish at all? 

And I get it, I really do... but starting a match off with some limb work before building to bigger spots has been something that wrestlers have been doing since at least the 1950s and probably since the very beginning of pro wrestling itself. How many matches are there, really, where the limb work is sold until the end and really leads to something?

Well, lo and behold, Sasha and Becky sell the limb work even after the match is over, and it leads to a great false finish and ties into the ending of the match. And it's just lovely. I can see why people wish it would happen far more often. 

It was a very well-worked and enjoyable pro wrestling match.

But, yikes, all of the stuff around it that had nothing to do with Sasha and Becky...

For example:

The often unnecessarily hyper-kinetic camera work. It wasn't as bad in this match as it is in a lot of other big WWE matches (maybe because this match was not about big bombs and near-falls), but it was still there and I still can't get used to it.

The dueling chants that seemed disconnected from what was happening in the ring. Sasha was putting on a great heel performance, but the crowd essentially wasn't reacting to that. How I wish they were booing her.

The commentary. They were really good at getting over the story of the match and explaining the moves and the psychology, but any time they tried to inject emotion into the match it felt forced and phony. "Ladies and gentlemen. This... is passion. This... is determination." with zero sincerity and all the enthusiasm of reading the laundry tags on your new t-shirt. It took me out of things every time When they were reacting to what was happening in the ring? Good. When they were disingenuously reading off pre-prepared talking points? Very, very bad.

The ref constantly drawing attention to himself. Look at me in here, reffing up a storm! 

The backstory. Hey, you know those two wrestlers who were close friends? ZOMG! One of them turned on the other! 

Anyway, none of that crap is on Becky or Sasha. They were great. If there was some grainy hand-held footage of this match where you couldn't hear the crowd chanting, I think  I'd like it 5000 times more. 

It's like WWE is a giant machine meant to turn me and people like me off of pro wrestling, even when the work itself is beyond reproach.

Edited May 25, 2020 by gordi

[SirSmUgly]

I watched that match again yesterday for the first time in a long time, and the stuff that you hated is hugely distracting. That the work cuts through that for me and that I enjoy it so much is pretty telling about its quality.

 

There are like four quick cuts on a simple corner charge! After four years of not seeing direction like that, it is a super-jarring experience.

 

The crowd and commentary are also awful. They'd be a massive minus on a lesser match. I thought about telling you to watch with the sound down, which I did around ten minutes in and which I should have advised.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

It was really similar for me. I watch so little WWE these days that being exposed to their production style again was - as you say - jarring.

If they'd just get out of the way and let their wrestlers wrestle WWE could have some of the greatest shows on television.

 

 

[supremebve]

15 hours ago, Morganti said:

Aight, what kind of match you want from me @supremebve My personal tastes lean toward any and everything, but if you have some idea of what you want, i can get you something I like in that same wheelhouse.  Otherwise ima make you review OC vs Colt over a beer.

I'm pretty easy, my only real request is to send me something that you legitimately think is good.  I would say my blindspots that I'd like to explore are Japanese indys (especially 90s Jr. stuff) and any non-WWE or NJPW over the last 10 years.  Can you narrow down "any and everything?"  If not, it will be some random match I like from the mid-90s which is what I've been watching lately.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

Gimme that mid 90s match. I'll look for a serious match i enjoyed.  That i think other people will find good.  

How do you feel about Orange Cassidy in general. Lots of hugs iwtv title run are good.  I enjoyed his match with Kylie rae a ton.

 

But I'll also go hunting for some other indy stuff that has either good work good character stuff or both

[Matt D]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:20 PM, AxB said:

@Matt D here you go:

Johnny Kidd vs Jordon Breaks. Under the rounds system. 2019.

Obviously, this was an interesting experiment, an interesting exhibition. I think Kidd probably has some really good matches left in him but he'd need someone who has done matches and matches and matches in this style (or, alternatively, who would buck it completely). Kidd came along relatively late so I haven't seen too much of his stuff, some of him as a game youngster against guys like Boscik, mainly. This style, much like lucha, is so reliant on repetition and ritual to get the spots down. Not that long ago, we watched a lucha style match from Mexico between Claudio and Hero and their ideas were great but you get the sense that the match would have been so much better if they worked the spots a hundred of times in front of a hundred audiences first, which is the sort of final product we usually get, especially if we go back to the 80s for either the UK or Mexico, which is basically what this match was trying to simulate. So they'd go from something that looked like Breaks pretending to wrestling like the little headlock dodge bit that set up the first pin, to something that was lightning quick and picture perfect like the capture that actually was the first pin. It was very uneven in that regard with the bad stuff painfully bad and the good stuff exceptionally good. The very best of it, however, was Kidd's talking and interacting with the ref and the crowd and Breaks. Him calling the Caswell Martin spot, for instance, was great, or complaining that Breaks used one of his own moves against him. There was a moment at the end after he'd taken the bump to the floor when he was about to jump back in and enter the finishing stretch where there was a look of "Ah, am I really going to do this?" on his face. Ultimately, this felt a lot like one of those Dr. Tom vs a Trainee matches, which could be quite fun to watch but you'd never not be fully aware of what you were watching. I think Breaks showed promise but it's sort of promise for a world that doesn't exist anymore. I thought his reactions, sometimes awe, sometimes good humor, sometimes surprise, were all believable for the moment. That's a lot of the battle. This was probably a very good experience for him in becoming a fully rounded wrestler, however. Despite some of what I said above, I think he should have felt quite good about himself at the end of the night. 

[Octopus]

@Curt McGirt, I’ll give you another Joshi battle. 

Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori 

Akira Hokuto has joined Bockwinkel, Hashimoto, and Satanico as my favorite wrestler to deep dive during COVID Times.

pre-match Note: Hokuto has had injury issues through her career and they play into that during the match.

[Curt McGirt]

I rewatched that a couple months ago before we started Secret Santo, but I'm happy to watch it again. Vicious match. 

[NikoBaltimore]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:05 AM, Matt D said:

Ok, normal week for everyone. Niko's back to benched until we have another goofy thing or he tells me otherwise. Ace has been awol for a bit, which is ok, but I'm leaving him out now.

Considering I still haven't even reviewed the one from last week I may sit this out for good even if it's a wacky week.  Though we'll see if/when that time comes.  And I haven't seen last week's match yet as last week's news just made me insanely depressed regarding wrestling and aside from DoN I didn't watch it at all.  But I'm catching up on it now so I'm hoping to get this taken care of soon.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

 

First choice, because I really like both participants, and really enjoyed the match. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

I'll be going back to work full time from Monday. I'm happy about that, but sadly it means I won't have time to keep participating in this project. Thanks to everyone and particular thanks to @Matt D for organizing this. It absolutely helped me get through the time of crisis over here.  I have had a blast watching matches and writing and reading reviews with all of you.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by gordi

[NikoBaltimore]

On 5/17/2020 at 2:39 PM, Smelly McUgly said:

@NikoBaltimore Jim Breaks is the best comedy worker ever, in my humble opinion. 

I hope I gave you something that you actually do enjoy. This is pretty funny because Breaks can't cope with being the big guy in the match. His alternating rage and resignation are amazing.

 

So before I begin I do want to apologize for not getting this out until today.  It didn't take long into this thread before I realized I'm best off sitting this one out.  And if I can't get to a comedy match in time then it's best for me to just hold off on this.  I could point to being super bummed out last week/weekend and that being a reason but that almost feels like an excuse to me.  So even if it's a comedy/wacky week I think I'm done with this.  Now that doesn't mean I don't want to check out good wrestling I haven't seen before.  In fact I have certain themes that I want to look into (example:  Top 5 matches featuring the Four Pillars)  But that's something I'll get around to on my own without having to get it done in a week's time.  That said, on to the review.

I've always heard of Jim Breaks but unfortunately knew of him due to the legal shit he's gotten himself into.  So Jim Breaks the person can fuck off.  But Jim Breaks the wrestler?  Sure, why not.  Now I haven't heard to Tom Thumb before but he brought the goods in this one.  He's a short fella and can be an annoying little shit to go against.  But his evasion tactics were done quite well and the crowd ate this up with a giant spoon.  Now with modern wrestling as it is and the moves that are done when Breaks held Tom in a way where his head was facing Jim's rear I could have seen in today's wrestling Jim sitting down and getting a pinfall.  But that wasn't something that they did back then which may have been for the best.  Tom did show in the next round that he can indeed wrestle but when going up against Breaks it's only a matter of time before he puts the Special on.  I did like that he got the third fall quickly as if Tom's arm is messed up the first time it won't take long before Jim gets back on it.

So like you hoped I did enjoy this match quite a bit.  It was funny but in a clever way and the story they told for a short match was well done.  Thanks for the pick.

Edited May 27, 2020 by NikoBaltimore

[Curt McGirt]

Ooof, had to look up what Breaks did. He's gonna die in prison (and is already 80) after murdering his caretaker/girlfriend in Spain.

[NikoBaltimore]

19 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Ooof, had to look up what Breaks did. He's gonna die in prison (and is already 80) after murdering his caretaker/girlfriend in Spain.

Yep.  I remember when news first broke about that and people were discussing it here.  I guess since I didn't have any emotional attachment to him it's a bit easier for me to separate the art from the artist.

[Matt D]

Not to spend too long here but there's a lot of reason to think of this like the Gagne situation which, of course, goes back to the idea of wrestling having a cost. 

[NikoBaltimore]

15 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Not to spend too long here but there's a lot of reason to think of this like the Gagne situation which, of course, goes back to the idea of wrestling having a cost. 

I see what you mean.  It's been a bit since I looked up all the details but if anything it had me kind of wanting to see him against the likes of Saint, Rocco and others.  Something about that style is just pleasant to watch.

Dare I say it but the way Thumb was evading Breaks I wonder how he would have fared in the French Catch style.  From what I've seen in that match he might have done okay for himself.  Now if I've lost my mind please tell me so but that's at least the impression that I got.