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(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020


Matt D

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:59 AM, Matt D said:

We'll do wrestlecrap/bad/comedy/etc. this week. In my mind, this is a pretty broad range of stuff. I don't want to take anything off the table for anyone, but something like Shawn Michaels vs Hulk Hogan (mentioned recently elsewhere on the board) would be as much game for this week as a funny Super Porky match or some trainwreck 00s Divas match. Or likewise, a total uncooperative trainwreck with guys sandbagging each other, etc. Or a completely impossible gimmick match. Bloopers, Bleeps and Bodyslams territory here.

OctopusCinema
Morganti

Gordi
Supremebve

NikoBaltimore
Smelly McUgly

AxB
Ace

Matt D
Curt McGirt

Curt, old friend, what I have for you is probably the "best" match anyone will give anyone else, as in it probably made permanent tapes in the 80s, or if one asked Meltzer about it today he'd probably say "that sounds like a classic" or whatever, but boy do I loathe it. I'll find it in a bit.

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@NikoBaltimore Jim Breaks is the best comedy worker ever, in my humble opinion. 

I hope I gave you something that you actually do enjoy. This is pretty funny because Breaks can't cope with being the big guy in the match. His alternating rage and resignation are amazing.

 

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@Curt McGirt

I never forced this one on you, right?

Neither Brody nor Mil want to sell anything. Or give anything. Usually Brody will bump but not sell, but Mil's so much smaller than him that he seems loathe to do even that. It's all a mess that helps to remind us that conventional wisdom for wrestling tends to be really stupid.

Edited by Matt D
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*sigh* 

Oh no. 

Well, I asked for it. 

Anywho, @supremebve was it you who said that they didn't buy shootstyle because of the submissions? Because the Vader/Takada match was a perfect example of that being exactly as it should, a submission firmly applied after an initial attempt with an immediate tapout. That's a problem with shootstyle I have as well, but tend to try and ignore. Another thing I loved about that match was the use of pro wrestling moves in a shootstyle setting. A side headlock would be a resthold in another match, but here it's freakin' Vader so it looks like a shoot submission attempt. A slam might be a setup for a pinfall otherwise but here it's a legit ten-count. These things knock the psychology topsy-turvy and that's why the match is so good. 

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Shit, you posted it right while I was writing the above! No, I haven't seen it, but my reaction is the same. I don't think I've ever even watched a Mil Mascaras match due to the notoriety of his laziness so this'll be a first for me.

Wait, I did watch the WAR match with Jimmy Snuka. So there's that.

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Bruiser Brody/Stan Hansen vs. Mil Mascaras/Dos Caras

You kinda took it easy with me on this one. It was bad, but not throw-up-on-your-shoes bad. From the jump you can tell Brody was not coming in to work, his whole demeanor was "let's get this over with". Hansen and Caras seemed to be the only guys who tried to make anything out of the sow's ear, and Hansen could have just steamrolled these two guys for all it's worth to boot, just to get himself over. But instead Baba decided to rib him and say "put him out there with the Mexicans" whilst smoking a cigar in the back with Rusher. Mil seems impervious to the effects of pro wrestling. Nothing you can do will create any effect except to tag out. Brody just acts like the size difference is enough to make him want to go back to the hotel and play cards the rest of the night. None of the double teams even work besides one high press into a crossbody. Then, finally, Brody press slams Caras (of course), and does what he wanted to do all along, to meet a laughing locker room and a waiting cab. "Mailed in" is the definition of this match. 

As far as what I have in store for you, give me a minute... I have some surprises...

Edited by Curt McGirt
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Okay, here they are. Because I was feeling both the comedy and the bad match flipside of this, here are two. 

Bad Match. You asked for it. 

Comedy Match. There is little to talk about, but I feel it necessary to expose it again to everyone. 

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On 5/15/2020 at 5:28 PM, Curt McGirt said:

 

One thing I thought about earlier today is that I want to take all of these reviews I've done so far and compile them on my own long dead blog. This is the most creative/motivated I've been for a long time (sadly) and I'm not about to stop reviewing anything. 

If you make or have a blog please call it the McGirt Gazette 

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4 hours ago, OctopusCinema said:

@Morganti, I’m gonna give you a local match. Fits this week’s theme.

Spider Baby vs Rob Justice

 

 

The crowd doesn't like the Rob Justice, who is doin some crowd work and classic heel shit.
Spider Baby is being very charitable and not just wackin him while he jaws with any and everyone

Spider then turns the hair pullin calls on him early. Both men are bald. 

there is one person in the crowd who is super vocal

big shoulder block and pose then a not smooth but effective arm drag and body slam sequence.

Spider Baby finally wacks the dude while hes jawin on the floor

then does some dodgin of moves while he is tryna roll back in before following it up with an atomic drop and a reverse atomic drop before getting caught with a boot and a headlock.  Rob hits the elbow and leg drop he missed earlier and goes for some covers.

Crowd dude is loud and hecklin like a mother fucker.

Rob likes to jaw with the crowd

Spider hits a reversal in the corner, a couple shoulder blocks and a monkey flip but gets caught with a jaw breaker
Rob goes for the three punch eye poke combo but gets poked in the eyes to set up the double down clothesline 10 count thingy

Someone asked spider to hit a 619, then he gets hit with the ugliest rock bottom ever.  followed by the ugliest attempt at a peoples elbow that he misses.  Spider hits a stunner but doesn't cover, then hits a weak jumpin knee and a flat liner that wouldn't look out of place in the old acclaim video games

the crowd heckler wants Spider to cheat.

Rob hits a low blow, pedigree...and spider rolls the shoulder up at 2

Rob tries international object hit, misses, and gets rolled up with the feet on the ropes, and the tights pulled.  He complains, the crowd loves it

this was a silly match with some folks who worked hard, but weren't the smoothest.  much like watching minor league or pick up sports, this was entertaining, but not >good< ?

Edited by Morganti
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I loved the Jim Breaks match and the Spider Baby match, both on different levels. Jim Breaks was like the pro version and Spider Baby the handheld (literally). The latter had not only the worst Rock Bottom, the worst People's Elbow, but the worst reverse STO (what is that called again, I can't remember) and Pedigree ever. And Octopus you are gonna have to reveal which of the hecklers was you ?

Where that was amateur hour (still accomplished, at that) the Jim Breaks match was comedy gold. After this and the previous matches given to me I'm gonna have to do a deep dive on the guy and see everything he's done. 

EDIT: The Flatliner! Nevermind. Thank you Morganti. And also that Stunner was soooooo soooooo bad. The great thing is all of these seemed intentional, yet you aren't sure if so. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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I just want to apologise in advance to @Ace, but it's bad match week and I can't find my first choice:

Shlak vs Necro Butcher from earlier this year. 

(Is Ace still participating? I don't think he made a pick last week)

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@supremebve

This is a match that, quite literally, changed my life. 

I was introduced to this match by the Violent Panda video review on 411Mania in 2004. I sought it out, got a copy of The Best of Ebessan from IVP videos.

My eldest daughter is 8 years old. She has been doing ballet (her choice) for literally half her life. Yesterday, we were watching the DVD from her ballet company's big year-end extravaganza. They had some comedy ballet performers from Tokyo as special guests. Their comedy style mostly involves subverting the tropes of ballet, and as my daughter watched it and laughed I felt proud. At 8 years old she understands ballet well enough to get when the tropes are being subverted.

What blew my mind about this match was that a lot of the comedy is about subverting the common, often subtle, tropes of Japanese pro wrestling. And there is a huge audience (in what I now recognize as Osaka Jo Hall) reacting to and playing along with it every step of the way. This crowd understands pro wrestling the way my daughter understands ballet! 

"These are my people!" I though. I desperately wanted to be a part of that.

In 2005, I went to Japan with the woman who would eventually be my wife and the mother of our little ballerinas. I got to see Kikutaro (the original Ebessan) live at the AJPW World Tag League finals in Ota Ward Gymnasium. He had me laughing out loud. It was pretty great.

In 2007 we went back to Japan to get married and on our honeymoon we went to Osaka. One of my wife's friends had given us directions to the Osaka Pro home arena in the entertainment district of Namba. As we wandered around the area trying to find it, we bumped into Kuishinbo Kamen and (the third version of) Ebessan, who were out on the streets drumming up business for the show. I tried to sneak close to them so that my wife could snap a picture, but they busted me... and then posed for pictures with both of us, and escorted us to the arena. 

We had an amazing time at the show. Afterward, we bought little plush dolls of Ebessan and Kuishinbo... and then, no fooling, Kuishinbo Kamen ran up to my wife, tore the dolls out of her hand, and ran away. 

He then came back with both dolls autographed in black magic marker.

Two years later, the contract ran out on my job in Canada and we decided to move to Japan. The Namba area of Osaka was too busy for us to live in, but we wanted to be close enough to go to some Osaka Pro shows... now we've been living here, a train-ride away from Namba, for 11 years. I've been out eating and drinking with Kuishinbo and I am flat out drinking buddies with Ebessan III. I finally got to meet Kikutaro in 2012. They are all great guys. I've seen them do variations of their comedy match in various combinations literally dozens of times and it has never failed to entertain me.

544734_10150915095655358_1427680271_n.jp

Osaka Pro was a huge part of my first few years living in Japan. I still have friends from those days. And it all started with this match:

 

 

Edited by gordi
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That was really good! I thought about Ebessan matches today while trying to think of something but realized I hadn't seen any. My sense of comedy is not as whimsical (see my choice for a "comedy" match which is just bizarre) but that was great. Mocking the New Japan structure in the middle was the best.

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On 5/17/2020 at 2:39 PM, Smelly McUgly said:

@NikoBaltimore Jim Breaks is the best comedy worker ever, in my humble opinion. 

I hope I gave you something that you actually do enjoy. This is pretty funny because Breaks can't cope with being the big guy in the match. His alternating rage and resignation are amazing.

 

Thanks for the pick.  Sorry for not getting back sooner but they had to break something at work.  Oh, let's upgrade something and not consider the consequences, what could possibly go wrong?!  Yeesh.

Anywho, I've been waiting for this week and while I appreciate a comedy I tend to have trainwreck matches on the brain.  And for as much as I loved TNA/Impact they had some clunkers with a match that really stands out right now.  I give to you a match that was so bad that Bryan Alvarez infamously called it "MINUS 5 STARS!"

Now considering the match isn't isn't that long if you're feeling up for it here's another gem.  It's Shelly Martinez vs. Rebel and it's another short match that quickly went off the rails.  And FWIW I'm not fond of the title for the video at all but am pulling up the first video of it I could find.

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1 hour ago, gordi said:

I was just watching Aja Kong vs Yumiko Hotta from January 1984... and, I don't mean to be controversial, but... I think the striking in that match was quite a bit better than the striking in Sharmell vs Jenna.

Yeah, no kidding.  I watched it again this morning to make sure it's still as awful as I remember it.  And sure as shit it is.

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On 5/17/2020 at 4:24 PM, Curt McGirt said:

Okay, here they are. Because I was feeling both the comedy and the bad match flipside of this, here are two. 

Bad Match. You asked for it. 

Comedy Match. There is little to talk about, but I feel it necessary to expose it again to everyone. 

Real time Train of Thought Notes (Curt, at least, is obliged to read these. Everyone else just read the last paragraph.)

2022 edit so I can find this later with a search if I want to. This is the Inoki Saito Island match.

 

-This thing is an hour. I like Saito. I'm curious when he actually got out of Jail. Let me look this up. Ok. This was his first angle out of prison in Japan. Wikis ays that they decided the first IGWP champion and Inoki won. Looks pretty bloody. I should watch that instead. Oh that's a good finish. The Saito suplex turned over on with a kickout right at the end. 
-Inoki talks. I can't turn on transcripts/translation here so I'm going to pass through this. Saito gets to talk next and he has cool shades. "I was just in jail and now I'm going to a desert island. This will be much better." I wonder if they even mentioned the jail stuff in Japan? I half bet they didn't. In the US they went crazy with Patera but it'd probably be a shameful thing in Japan? I have no idea.
-I feel like the camera shots where you can see a city in the background kind of kills the effect on this. 
-Ok, I'm turning this up to 1.5x speed until they actually start hitting each other. Inoki's hiding behind a flag or something. Saito has a bionic armguard thing. 
-Man, some of these cuts are jarring. Instead of crowd heat we have helicopter noise. I am a big proponent of building to a moment but they're taking their good time here. Alright, Inoki's in the ring! I posted a Zbyszko vs Inoki match but it's babyface Larry so he's game but it's not as fun. I think I had to take that down due to the NJPW crackdown not long ago. 
-I'm not sure if I buy them really building it up like this because we just saw footage of them wrestling. We know they are used to each other.
-Hey, Saito with the legdive. That's how you start a deserted island death match, with a stalky leglock and chain wrestling. Was the belt on the line here or was this just a grudge match? They're still chain wrestling. Bizarre. 
-The helicopter noise almost gives this a newsreel footage sound. Almost. How is a chinlock a good idea in this setting? Think cinematically, Inoki. I get that you made your mid-career pretending you were in Enter the Dragon but come on. 
-I guess if you don't have a crowd, you don't have to work in and out of the holds. You can just sit in them. Great facial expressions from both guys though. It's not that they're not working the side headlock. That's not the point though. Saito looks like he's missing a piece of his nose. I blame Mad Dog Vachon. Actually, did they ever wrestle? They were in the same place at the same time, after all. While they go to this wide shot, I'm going to look this up. They're back from the wide shot, and Inoki's working out of the hold but I'm looking it up anyway. Pull his hair Saito, come on! Nope, they're going over the ropes, but Saito his trying to choke him anyway. Oh, maybe Saito's arm is busted and that's why he has the guard. Yeah, Saito's super emotive. Inoki's really only got one mode: grit, but Saito can express himself in many ways. Yeah, this struggle is fine, and better in a lot of ways because they're out of the ring and on the apron but I'm not sure it was made better by the long side headlock before it, if that makes sense. I don't think they should have leaned so hard into normalcy to begin. That's the thing with a long match. You see something early but it only makes sense in the big picture, but I'm still iffy.
-They're on the grass now and I still haven't looked up Mad Dog vs Saito. I swear they didn't have a match on the 80s set but Vachon's matches were very focused. Some tags where he was with a guy like Greg and obviously the Blackwell matches which were special attractions. I'm reading the Vachon book now which is why ... oh hey, come on. Really? They get to the ground and it ends up with another chinlock? How is this a good idea?
-I had to deal with kids coming down and stuff so I paused it. Still in chinlock land here. Oh good. A wide shot of a chinlock. Inoki's laying in the grit though. I bet he can't get his footing as well on the grass. Going to be tougher to get up, but maybe he can get Saito to slip and... nope, Saito just laid on the body scissors. I hope they don't get any ticks or anything.
Ok, looking up Vachon vs Saito. We have 5 minutes. now I'm watching both at once and yep! it starts with Vachon catching a kick and biting Saito's toes! Good old, Mad Dog. Get his nose! I think Ventura is out on the floor. This is around when he gave him the kimono. and on the other screen we get that hold. Vachon just threw out Saito. It's a chaotic scene. He just hit Saito in the head with the ring bell. I wonder if I can watch the mummy match at the same time next. Hey! Saito just let Inoki go. Well that's no way to win the match. Neither was the chinlock, mind you. Oh no, they broke some Fargo sounding guy's stopwatch. Oh no. Ventura got Vachon from behind and Saito's locked in a half crab. 
-On the other screen, hey! Inoki just hit a suplex! Good for him. 
-Oh shit! The Baron just showed up and tossed salt in the face of Saito! Big surprise. he was hidden with a mask or a wig. Now it's chaos! Baron just slammed Saito! 
-On the other screen they're doing a double knucklelock and hey! chinlock time again. It's a deep one, like a choke. 
-I am all about this Baron/Mad Dog vs Ventura/Saito tag this set up. I have to ask khawk if that made tape. Ok, the Mad Dog match is over.
-And Inoki's gone back to the arm. He's using the ring as a weapon and that's pretty cool, or it would be if this wasn't chinlock city otherwise. He's got a sort of over the shoulder (like a pumphandle) armbar, using the ring. I've got a work message from Kuwait I have to deal with. Pausing. They handled it. Speaking of Kuwait, I really need to watch some of that Kuwait footage for Friday. I think we'll do at least Austin vs Jannetty and Bret vs Cassidy (Snow). I watched that Smoking Gunns vs RnR Express match and that was really good. Heel RnRs against a bigger team that was over in front of the crowd.
-Ok, ok, so 26:50 in and Saito's selling the arm and cutting the distance and they're jockeying for position and suddenly showing us a mountain. I get the sense that maybe this is skipping around a bit because this is a two hour match but I don't know Japanese so I can't read things. I'd watch an Inoki vs Vachon match too but that definitely didn't happen. I wonder if he worked IWE though. I should know this. I need to read more of this book. Now Saito's working the arm. I wonder how hot it is. And on cue they cut to fire. Nice guys. Way to read the 2020 American audience, Japan.
-Saito's really grinding his forearm in because he's a champ. Ok, yeah, the fire, we get it. I got distracted again. I think I'm supposed to have a meeting right now but I have no idea. Why the heck did I let Curt break the "30 minute limit" on terrible match week? Though to be honest, I'd rather watch this than some hour long 6 star Okada thing probably. Assuming such a thing exists.
-I think they just don't know what to do with this. They should have watched some stadium matches from Puerto Rico. Like, shit Masa. Just toss him into the fire! You get the sense that it's not that hot because it's October and all, but that the island itself is some how oppressive, heavy, and that's causing them to be more sluggish and the smallest struggle to matter more, but it's a stretch, even with the fire. I have literally no idea if I'm supposed to be in a meeting right now. I didn't get a scheduler for it. I think I'd rather be in a meeting.
-Oh man, Saito was bringing him towards the fire. Thank you! They just knocked it over but it looked pretty dodgy for a second. Now he's kicking him. Finally. Toss him into the ring apron too. Come on. Nope Inoki is kicking back. And they're back in the ring. They better not go back to chinlocks. STO trip by Saito and into an armlock instead. Headscissors out by Inoki. Inoki gets a slam at the end of all this and they really are selling that oppressive feel. I feel it in my gut. It's not entirely compelling but it's still somewhat impressive. They've done almost nothing with this match but just with the setting and the camera angles and the sweat and the selling, you get a sense of pressure. If they had chose to do almost anything more, you wouldn't get it at all. Inoki finally bounces off the rope, to do nothing. Then Saito gets hip tossed over the top. Inokiw ith the headbutts on the grass. That's kind of compelling. I jacked up the speed because I definitely have a meeting in fifteen and I want to finish this. Saito is bleeding now. He had plenty of scar tissue to work with so I have no idea if it's hardway from the headbutts or not. Given the camera tricks here, who knows. They're back in and he's down though. Somehow it really got dark, which doesn't seem to be how the passage of time ought to work, but whatever. Why do I remember something about explosions? Weren't there supposed to be explosions? Was that a different island match? Did Onita have an exploding island match? I looked that up and didn't find anything.
-Saito was back up but he swung at Inoki and went flying over the top. What the hell did Saito just hit him with? It looks like a giant bone maybe? A shovel? Oh wait. Firewood. That's a really logical weapon. 
-I don't know what's up with the posts but they all look like they're wrapped up in something. Very padded. Not the right look for this. Is Inoki bleeding yet? Everything's just really dark. You never really get the sense that you're watching a camera crew film this. I wonder if Saito's "Japan" tights are things he just used in the states wher that actually mattered.
- Alright, another fire spot. This one looked good and like it caused Inokis ome damage. Let's say he's bleeding now. I feel like Inoki would take fire damage like a video game. He'd just lose some of his health meter. Hey, they're really going at it now. Then a big stretch of selling and another forhorn. 
-They're back in and Inoki hit a splex. He's gushing pretty well now. Yes, there was the fire and the weapon shot, but you get the sense it was really just from headbutts. That's the sort of match we're dealing with here. Saito's screaming at him from in the middle of the ring. I like the idea that he just lost him and got confused. Saito finds him and clubbers away, just methodological blows. Saito/Barbarian would have been an awesome set of opponents for the Hell Raisers. Oh crap, Inoki just hit the back brain kick. Saito nailed him with the wood again. SAITO SUPLEX. He can't finish him though. Both guys are just a bloody mess staggering about. Saito misses a huge clothesline and eats a dropkick. Where's Inoki going? He's running. He's a coward! He's going back to the mainland. No, I guess he's back. And they're back to headbutts. Just kick him in the gut, Saito. Wait, Saito left. I like how Inoki, in following him, just falls out of the ring. That's some dedicated selling. I have no idea where Saito was going, but Inoki caught him in a rear choke and apparently chokes him out. I like how this ends on a chinlock. Saito is not dead but he is getting stretchered out. And I have a meeting in a minute. But not one where I have to do a lot.

Ok, sum up. This was both super painful and overall, kind of likable actually. They knew what they wanted to do with this and they did it. The big picture was to show a war of attrition over time where they didn't do anything crazy, for the most part. There was a little fire, a little in the way of weapons, and plenty of headbutts and blood, in the stretch but for the most part, it was all kept very simple. The gimmick was the island, the oppression, time. You feel oppressed watching this. By not going for highspots until the very end, it allowed them to create great value and meaning to tiny things, chinlocks, headscissors, an armbar, a single headbutt, a near miss with the fire. They portrayed exhaustion even with the simplest things and because of that, every single thing they do feels like it took so much effort. I'm not convinced this makes for a compelling watching experience, however. I think you can look back and say "remember that war they had on the island?" and what you'll remember is the sweat and the agony and the blood, but those are all indirect things. No specific spot is going to stand out here, but I imagine people who watched this at the time will always remember the mood. Mood doesn't get star ratings, though, which is one of the problems with star ratings. This was incredibly ill-conceived but I actually think it accomplished the artistic thing it set out to do, which is one of those things we really do need to judge pro wrestling on. Thought and execution. Here, the issue was in the thought.

Edited by Matt D
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I remember watching that whole damned thing once, on a VHS comp tape of "Legendary Brawls" or "Most Violent Matches" or some such. I remember all the chinlocks and ground work making me think about Truth in Advertising. I remember being kinda bored and frustrated and being determined to get through the damned thing... And I clearly remember the sight of those two guys covered in sweat and blood and stumbling around exhausted being, finally, pretty awesome. Almost worth it. As you say, Matt, it does succeed in setting a rather unique mood.

 

Ganryujima is apparently a bit of a tourist attraction. It's a small boat-shaped island between two of the main islands of the Japanese archipelago. We went to Shimonoseki once, to eat fugu. You can take a little ferry out to the island

It was the site of a very famous Samurai duel, between the great swordsman Musashi and Some Other Guy (who was the head of the Ganryu school of swordsmanship, hence why the name of the island was changed from literally "boat island" (probably Funashima) to Ganryujima, as a memorial).. The story of the fight is that Musashi carved a wooden sword out of a boat oar, showed up 2 hours late for the fight, and brained Some Other Guy with a single swing of his wooden sword.

There is a statue commemorating the battle, but apparently the draw for tourists is to stand on the island and imagine the fight. There are no restaurants or souvenir shops or anything. There is a storage facility for he Shimonoseki dry docks. We opted not to go.

At the time, I didn't make the connection with the Island Death Match.

I think there should be statues commemorating the Inoki match and also Hase vs Tiger Jeet Singh. If so, I'd go there and imagine those fights, if we ever go back to Shimonoseki. Or maybe not, cuz that would mean I'd probably have to watch the Singh match, too.

 

 

Edited by gordi
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First of all I am sorry. That match really shouldn't be subjected to anyone. I forgot about the time limit, and that I was going to mention you had permission to watch it in 2x speed because that is the only way I made it through the thing. I was also surfing the board at the time so you putting on a second match was perfect. 

Basically, they do nothing. This is two guys rolling around in the grass 90% of the time. The bladejobs were big and somebody may have gotten burned... big deal. And at the end they just kind of leave? Didn't it technically end as a no-contest? Did Inoki win because he wasn't on the stretcher? It is bizarre and unexplained. Such an anachronism of a match, and an example of just how weird Inoki is. 

Guess it could have been worse though... I could have made you watch the Tiger Jeet Singh match! ?

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5 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I give to you a match that was so bad that Bryan Alvarez infamously called it "MINUS 5 STARS!"

So that's the match? I always wondered where that quote came from. Poor West and Tenay having to try and put over that shit without laughing. And then the one chick basically powerbombing herself on the floor when Kong doesn't even attempt to catch her! I'm not sure if I remember a Divas match that bad (though I'm sure there were plenty). 

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