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(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020


Matt D

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16 hours ago, gordi said:

Blind spots remain the same, but I also wouldn't mind a kaiju-style match. I'm open to pretty much anything.

It's an atypical Khan match, in that he's basically playing face in peril to a heel Andre. As my man Elliott put it, he's like the world's weirdest Ricky Morton in this one. 

So with your blind spots being from 2005-2014 while it's not full-on Kaiju-style match I remember at the time liking this Undertaker/Big show casket match.  Haven't seen it recently but hope this works for you.

 

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13 hours ago, Matt D said:

You can watch this:

Holy moly this thing is madness incarnate.  I will do a deeper review in the coming days but Lordy mercy, I’ve been at less insane pagan rituals that led to the rise of Cthulhu.

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On 3/29/2020 at 1:17 PM, Smelly McUgly said:

Alright, @Super Ape, I'm throwing up Steiners/Beverly Brothers from the 1993 Royal Rumble here only because I couldn't find a copy of Steiners/Hughes and Vader from the Clash that would be acceptable to you (and good on you for not giving that fucking company any of your money):

Aren't I the one who's supposed to review this? And @Super Ape you got the BattlARTS tag above that I forgot to properly tag you in. 

I've seen like little to no WWF Steiners so this one's fine by me.

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45 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Aren't I the one who's supposed to review this? And @Super Ape you got the BattlARTS tag above that I forgot to properly tag you in. 

I've seen like little to no WWF Steiners so this one's fine by me.

It says:

Super Ape > Curt McGirt > Smelly McUgly

Looks to me like Super Ape picks one for you, you pick one for me, and I pick one for Super Ape, if I follow the arrows like a flowchart.

IDC, though, so if you want, you can review this and I'll wait on Super Ape. 

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'Greater than' and 'lesser than' signs cursed me in math class for years. I'm seriously not sure if I ever understood them. Yes, that is really terrible; I can write you a book but I cannot do sixth grade math. 

Anyway if you want the BattlARTS tag you got it. I will review two matches if necessary. 

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19 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

So with your blind spots being from 2005-2014 while it's not full-on Kaiju-style match I remember at the time liking this Undertaker/Big show casket match.  Haven't seen it recently but hope this works for you.

 

I don't know, man. Maybe you're mis-remembering? Like, maybe it was a different match from their feud or maybe a different casket match? Because this was not good. And... I myself have liked a lot of matches that were technically not good, but this was not good in a way where I can't really see anybody liking this match or even particularly remembering this match. Although, the ending managed to be both creative and utterly disappointing so I guess I could see that being memorable.  

The problem from my perspective was that the match was almost entirely worked without any hint of intensity or hatred. I'd figure that this kind of gimmick match (casket match, buried alive match, ambulance match, last man standing match...) should be the end-point of a long and violent feud. I'd figure that a casket match should be worked like this: You have to beat your opponent down so badly that they can't stop you from putting them in a casket and closing the lid. JR even explains it as such on commentary. 

This match just isn't worked that way. They go through the motions of setting up three big spots leading to the clever but dissatisfying conclusion, but almost everything seems perfunctory and mandatory. 

All that being said, this was not a terrible match or even a particularly bad match. It effectively tells a nice little story and the big spots, perfunctory as they may be, are still visually quite impressive because these are two genuinely massive men executing them. This match is, almost aggressively, just kind of OK.

It starts out well, establishing that Show is afraid of the casket and giving us a couple of minutes of very good clubbering action. That got my hopes up. But, they transition into laboriously setting up the announce tables for Big Spot #1: Taker legdrops Show through an announce table. Honest question, not being snarky: Can anybody remember if these spots still felt exciting back in 2008? These days, it really feels like something they have to do once per PPV. Another case of looking at things through 2020 eyes, perhaps?

There is some weird editing when Taker hits Show with the monitors during the set-up. Fairly or not (probably not), thinking about that took me out of the match. 

Then they get back in the ring to set up Big Spot #2: Show counters Old School into a suplex. There is no struggle over this at all. Taker works Show's arm a bit, sets up for old school, and starts to climb the ropes. Show punches him once in the gut, and Taker kind of doubles over and gets suplexed. Visually impressive, but emotionally unremarkable.

Show rolls Taker into the casket but he's afraid to touch it and he wants the refs to close the lid... which they refuse to do. This is a nice bit, which allows both of the big men to catch their breath. Certainly, part of the problem with this match is that both men were completely gassed out by the five-minute mark. Show looks physically like he's in not-too-bad shape here, but he never really recovers and spends the last two thirds of the match visibly gasping for air. Show is generally a good actor in-ring, but his exhaustion keeps him from making angry or scared facial expressions and really limits his body language and that hurts this match a lot.

Taker, on the other hand, seems to get his second wind while lying in the casket (which also makes perfect sense for his character), and he comes out all fired up and knocks Show around a bit. The opening fisticuffs and this short but nice segment have me convinced that these two could absolutely work an exciting straightforward brawl.

Unfortunately, though, we have to go into the set-up for big spot #3: Show slowly, slowly, slowly climbs to the second rope in the corner and waits there until Taker comes over to choke slam him off the second rope. This sets up the second big casket spot, with Show fighting to keep Taker from closing the lid. Taker, obviously, is not scared to touch the casket. That's some nice, character-based story-telling.

They end up back in the ring, where Show lethargically choke-slams Taker. Then he goes outside, knocks over the casket, and retreats up the entrance ramp. Taker does the sit up, then causes a wall of flame to erupt, blocking Show's escape. The druids come out, and leave an absolutely enormous casket on the stage. 

Taker and Show brawl around the ramp and the stage and tease a 4th big spot, but instead Show tips the big casket up on one end so it's standing vertically. That could have been an impressive "feat of strength" spot, and indeed it is commentated as such... but once again Show is too gassed out to use his face and body to sell that in any way at all. He whips Taker into the upright casket and tries to do so a second time... but Taker reverses the whip and sends Show into the casket, only this time the lid is open so Show runs inside the upright casket which falls over and the force of that shuts the lid. Match over.

Ca you see what I mean when I call the ending creative but disappointing? 

I'm sure these two have a much better kaiju-style match in them.

To be honest, it was a lot of fun to review a not-so-good match. (I mean this un-ironically): Thanks Niko!

 

 

Edited by gordi
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9 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

'Greater than' and 'lesser than' signs cursed me in math class for years. I'm seriously not sure if I ever understood them. Yes, that is really terrible; I can write you a book but I cannot do sixth grade math. 

Pac-Man eats the bigger meal.  I hope this helps.  This is literally how I learned it.

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On 3/29/2020 at 2:11 PM, OctopusCinema said:

Good idea! 

BLINDSPOTS:

- Joshi. I watched Jaguar Yokota vs Lioness Asuka. My first full Joshi match and it mesmerizing me. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

- British Wrestling past or present. I’ve seen random things here and there but very ignorant to the vast content out there.

- FMW. I’ve only seen Onita vs Funk and I looooved it. 

- 90’s Heavyweight New Japan. @Curt McGirt has been kind enough to send me Hashimoto goodies. That’s the extent of my knowledge of that period Japan, outside of All Japan.

- Never seen a Puerto Rico match.

INTERESTS:

- A month or so ago I’ve been on a El Satanico and Negro Casas binge. 

- Love me some NOAH championship run Kenta Kobashi 

- Terry Funk puts a smile on me

- I like legendary wrestlers have good matches as old men. 

- Laphroig or Balvenie Doublewood for scotch. Tito’s Vodka, but I’ve been going with Skaalven recently. Hendricks Gin, but Churchill is cheap and dry and I don’t want to spend the money right now. Disaronno is good for a mix. My dad would keep Evan Williams Whiskey next to the garbage under the sink, so I have a soft spot for it.

Haven't drank in 31 years, but if they still make Dewar's or J & B, both were drinkable and a lot easier on the wallet than fucking Laphroig.  Anyway, on to the wrestling. 

Joshi is phenomenal, you need to watch some Akira Hokuto (who for a couple of years was probably the best wrestler in the world, male or female. Some Kana kicking bitches in the head before she became "Asuka" is always fun.  And if spotfest stuff is your thing, you can't go too far wrong with Manami Toyota. I'm probably a little jaded having watched hours of her stuff to the point that it became routine, but viewing her for the first time was like a religious experience. 

British Wrestling: Plenty of World of Sport up on Youtube. Do not neglect Rollerball Rocco, the dude could go! British wrestling is experiencing a resurgence thanks to the likes of Pete Dunne and Tyler Bates.

1990s All Japan with Misawa, Kawada, etc is as good as watching Hash or Tsruta do their thing. 

PR: At its best with fireball-throwing, fork wielding insanity. It's like FMW, though I prefer Onita putting himself over to Carlos Colon hogging the spotlight.

 

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2 hours ago, OSJ said:

Haven't drank in 31 years, but if they still make Dewar's or J & B, both were drinkable and a lot easier on the wallet than fucking Laphroig.  Anyway, on to the wrestling. 

Dewars is good. I’ll have that with meals. 

2 hours ago, OSJ said:

Joshi is phenomenal, you need to watch some Akira Hokuto (who for a couple of years was probably the best wrestler in the world, male or female. Some Kana kicking bitches in the head before she became "Asuka" is always fun.  And if spotfest stuff is your thing, you can't go too far wrong with Manami Toyota. I'm probably a little jaded having watched hours of her stuff to the point that it became routine, but viewing her for the first time was like a religious experience. 

British Wrestling: Plenty of World of Sport up on Youtube. Do not neglect Rollerball Rocco, the dude could go! British wrestling is experiencing a resurgence thanks to the likes of Pete Dunne and Tyler Bates.

Thanks man! I’ve heard the names, any matchups you’d recommend? I’m gonna deep dive some of them. 

Rollerball Rocco is a badass name.

2 hours ago, OSJ said:

1990s All Japan with Misawa, Kawada, etc is as good as watching Hash or Tsruta do their thing. 

Love me some Misawa and Kawada. Some all time greatest matches with them in it.

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12 hours ago, gordi said:

I don't know, man. Maybe you're mis-remembering? Like, maybe it was a different match from their feud or maybe a different casket match? Because this was not good. And... I myself have liked a lot of matches that were technically not good, but this was not good in a way where I can't really see anybody liking this match or even particularly remembering this match. Although, the ending managed to be both creative and utterly disappointing so I guess I could see that being memorable.  

The problem from my perspective was that the match was almost entirely worked without any hint of intensity or hatred. I'd figure that this kind of gimmick match (casket match, buried alive match, ambulance match, last man standing match...) should be the end-point of a long and violent feud. I'd figure that a casket match should be worked like this: You have to beat your opponent down so badly that they can't stop you from putting them in a casket and closing the lid. JR even explains it as such on commentary. 

This match just isn't worked that way. They go through the motions of setting up three big spots leading to the clever but dissatisfying conclusion, but almost everything seems perfunctory and mandatory. 

All that being said, this was not a terrible match or even a particularly bad match. It effectively tells a nice little story and the big spots, perfunctory as they may be, are still visually quite impressive because these are two genuinely massive men executing them. This match is, almost aggressively, just kind of OK.

It starts out well, establishing that Show is afraid of the casket and giving us a couple of minutes of very good clubbering action. That got my hopes up. But, they transition into laboriously setting up the announce tables for Big Spot #1: Taker legdrops Show through an announce table. Honest question, not being snarky: Can anybody remember if these spots still felt exciting back in 2008? These days, it really feels like something they have to do once per PPV. Another case of looking at things through 2020 eyes, perhaps?

There is some weird editing when Taker hits Show with the monitors during the set-up. Fairly or not (probably not), thinking about that took me out of the match. 

Then they get back in the ring to set up Big Spot #2: Show counters Old School into a suplex. There is no struggle over this at all. Taker works Show's arm a bit, sets up for old school, and starts to climb the ropes. Show punches him once in the gut, and Taker kind of doubles over and gets suplexed. Visually impressive, but emotionally unremarkable.

Show rolls Taker into the casket but he's afraid to touch it and he wants the refs to close the lid... which they refuse to do. This is a nice bit, which allows both of the big men to catch their breath. Certainly, part of the problem with this match is that both men were completely gassed out by the five-minute mark. Show looks physically like he's in not-too-bad shape here, but he never really recovers and spends the last two thirds of the match visibly gasping for air. Show is generally a good actor in-ring, but his exhaustion keeps him from making angry or scared facial expressions and really limits his body language and that hurts this match a lot.

Taker, on the other hand, seems to get his second wind while lying in the casket (which also makes perfect sense for his character), and he comes out all fired up and knocks Show around a bit. The opening fisticuffs and this short but nice segment have me convinced that these two could absolutely work an exciting straightforward brawl.

Unfortunately, though, we have to go into the set-up for big spot #3: Show slowly, slowly, slowly climbs to the second rope in the corner and waits there until Taker comes over to choke slam him off the second rope. This sets up the second big casket spot, with Show fighting to keep Taker from closing the lid. Taker, obviously, is not scared to touch the casket. That's some nice, character-based story-telling.

They end up back in the ring, where Show lethargically choke-slams Taker. Then he goes outside, knocks over the casket, and retreats up the entrance ramp. Taker does the sit up, then causes a wall of flame to erupt, blocking Show's escape. The druids come out, and leave an absolutely enormous casket on the stage. 

Taker and Show brawl around the ramp and the stage and tease a 4th big spot, but instead Show tips the big casket up on one end so it's standing vertically. That could have been an impressive "feat of strength" spot, and indeed it is commentated as such... but once again Show is too gassed out to use his face and body to sell that in any way at all. He whips Taker into the upright casket and tries to do so a second time... but Taker reverses the whip and sends Show into the casket, only this time the lid is open so Show runs inside the upright casket which falls over and the force of that shuts the lid. Match over.

Ca you see what I mean when I call the ending creative but disappointing? 

I'm sure these two have a much better kaiju-style match in them.

To be honest, it was a lot of fun to review a not-so-good match. (I mean this un-ironically): Thanks Niko!

 

 

Gordi's review killed the video.

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2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Gordi's review killed the video.

Heh, just noticed that.  At least he got the review in.

But to his point I did see it earlier and it's not as good as I remember it being.  Then again I last saw it 12 years ago and maybe just viewed it a different way then.  So I'll need to make sure going forward to watch it and make sure it's actually worthwhile.  If not then I may as well not take part in this.

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22 minutes ago, Eivion said:

If you people want to see a good kaiju battle from WWE I'm curious why you would go for Taker/Show and not Show/Henry.

I tried to find Show/Henry but couldn't find a good link online at the time.  And trust me, looking back I'm not happy with my pick.

So with that said @gordiif I'm able to find something much better would you be up for checking that out?  You don't need to review it.

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19 minutes ago, Bigbosseli said:

I missed out on getting in on this but I love this and have watched some great stuff. Terry Funk was my favorite. I'm in it we do it again.

Next week is a self-pick week (Something you've been meaning to watch for a while or know you ought to watch but just haven't gotten around to it) and you're more than welcome to join in there. 

After that, if everyone's still up for it, we'll continue the following week and you can jump on. That'll solve Curt's Pac-Man issues.

And heck, if you want to do something this week, this is always a good choice.

 

Edited by Matt D
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40 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Next week is a self-pick week (Something you've been meaning to watch for a while or know you ought to watch but just haven't gotten around to it) and you're more than welcome to join in there. 

After that, if everyone's still up for it, we'll continue the following week and you can jump on. That'll solve Curt's Pac-Man issues.

And heck, if you want to do something this week, this is always a good choice.

 

I will take this, and jump in next week! Thanks Matt D. Be well my friends

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Steiners vs. Beverly Brothers (Royal Rumble 1993)

This was a solid, high-energy opener. The Beverlys are pros so the Steiners aren't going to blatantly manhandle them like other teams, but will still take their licks. It's pretty plain, you have your opening shine, heels get their heat (including a choke with the tag rope which I don't think I've seen in like a century), the Steiners get their spots in (German, Tiger Driver, Frankensteiner), and we're out. No bulldog Doomsday Device but the Frankensteiner was perfect enough to be the finish -- and it still looks devastating. I don't know how Scotty always pulled it off so perfectly and never injured anybody; thankfully people are able to do it in reverse today and not kill each other, though they should stop. I'm sure this revved the crowd up and they reacted bigtime for the Steiners' moves which I'm sure some of them had never seen before. The German was big enough to get a pop even if you'd seen one a million times. As far as Beverlys go, it was pretty much a competitive squash but it worked. Enos was in WCW forever it seemed on every B- or C-show they aired after this, even though it was only two years that he was there (take in mind again for me: Goldberg Era). 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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11 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Heh, just noticed that.  At least he got the review in.

But to his point I did see it earlier and it's not as good as I remember it being.  Then again I last saw it 12 years ago and maybe just viewed it a different way then.  So I'll need to make sure going forward to watch it and make sure it's actually worthwhile.  If not then I may as well not take part in this.

 

8 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I tried to find Show/Henry but couldn't find a good link online at the time.  And trust me, looking back I'm not happy with my pick.

So with that said @gordiif I'm able to find something much better would you be up for checking that out?  You don't need to review it.

 

I'm almost always up for checking out more wrestling... but in all sincerity your pick worked out really well for me. It's fun to try and analyse a match that blows my socks off, to try and figure out what was so great about it; and it can be even more fun to tee off on a truly terrible train wreck of a match. What I rarely do is take a long look at a "one and a half to two star" type of "just OK" match and try to figure out why I didn't either really dislike it or really like it. I honestly had a lot of fun with your pick. 

Also,  @Matt D maybe it would be fun to, in another five weeks or so (if we get that far - and it seems like we really might) to have us each assign a "so bad it's good" or "really bad, but in an interesting way" match. Raja Lion or Big Daddy or Renegade in Japan or late-days WCW type of stuff. It would be fun to read everyone having a go at some WrestleCrap level matches. 

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On 3/31/2020 at 9:37 AM, Goodear said:

Holy moly this thing is madness incarnate.  I will do a deeper review in the coming days but Lordy mercy, I’ve been at less insane pagan rituals that led to the rise of Cthulhu.

 

It has never happened and it never will happen, but I wish someone would come at me with "How can you like pro wrestling? It's all the same!"

The sheer variety of wrestling footage out there is just baffling. It's amazing to me that stuff like Titanes en el ring exists, and that it was hugely popular in it day, and that footage is freely available online. How lucky are we, to live in a time when we can all enjoy this? Very much looking forward to this review. 

Edited by gordi
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