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(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020


Matt D

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26 minutes ago, Ace said:

For @supremebve, I'mma hit his Japanese blind spot with the 2012 MOTY, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki

For those who don't have NJ World,  here's the Daily Motion version:

 

Lol, modern NJPW shouldn't have been listed as a blind spot, but you did pick a fairly current match that I've never seen.  I honestly have no idea how I never watched this one, because it was one of those matches that was critically acclaimed.  How blind are you on Joshi?  Like totally blind where you haven't seen anything, or legally blind where you've seen a little, but not really enough to know what you're looking at?

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@AxB gave me Lee Moriarty vs. Ophidian from the “From the Ashes” show on May 19th 2019. I have zero experience with Lee Moriarty, while Ophidian was a long time favorite of mine from my CHIKARA days about a decade ago. I remember his first match, and he would be one of my top 10 CHIKARA graduates overall (that’s a hell of a list, btw. Eddie Kingston, Hallowicked, Jigsaw, Soldier Ant/Drew Gulak, Fire Ant/Orange Cassidy, Green Ant/Tracy Williams, Ophidian, and depending on how you count it, you could toss Brodie Lee and Claudio Castagnoli on here too).

Okay, I’ll be honest here and say this wasn’t my cup of tea. But before we go into the negatives, I want to get the things I did enjoy about this out of the way first. 

- While Ophidian didn’t work over Moriarty’s arm a ton, after he did do it, Moriarty was pretty damn consistent selling it, including it preventing him from applying big  moves and leading to counters. That said, Ophidian really only did 2-3 moves focused on the arm, so it almost felt a bit unearned? But still, I appreciate the attention to detail.

-The execution in this match is pretty sharp overall, though I’m  it a big execution guy.

-Moriarty does a very good job trash talking in the ring, especially in what appears to be a family friendly environment.

 

Now, for the stuff I personally am not crazy about, it’s more a general frustration I have with wrestling in general working this style of match. A lot of Moriarty’s offense is pretty dependent on the thigh slaps, which generally don’t annoy me much, but kind did here. The “look how good of mat wrestlers we are” Pinfall counters were too slow to actually look impressive to me. Being honest, a lot of this felt like some matches I had seen tons of times, but only at about 75% speed. I actually think my biggest criticisms of this match would have been completely addressed if they just straight up had Ophidian play more of a pure heel, instead of the subtle heel while we have a strong athletic contest stuff. And I think it would have played better to the live crowd who were 100% behind Moriarty too.

 

Basically, I saw enough to think both guys are good enough to be interesting to follow, though I admittedly already knew that about Ophidian. Just this particular match didn’t speak to me in a major noticeable way. I hope this review didn’t feel too negative? I don’t really do star ratings or anything, but I’d say this this would be what I what I would generally describe as an above average, 3 star style match.

 

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Young David vs. Jim Breaks was a lot of fun. Here you have a 16 year old Davey Boy Smith, very far from his inflated size as the British Bulldog, wrestling Jim Breaks in a handicap match. The rules are that Davey Boy has a one-fall advantage and if he wins, Breaks has to give up 100 pound to him for the loss. Davey, as said, is just a lanky kid who looks like he just got pulled out of his school wrestling program to fight who else -- Breaks, who now that I get a closer look at him has to be (IRL) a hard cunt that glassed more than one unlucky punter down the pub before. He's the kid that got picked on too much in school for his size and now he's gonna take it out on this teenager. Everything is mild at first without Breaks taking advantage which it seems like he doesn't have to considering the youth and inexperience of his opponent. He can't help himself though, and several times manages to bust out the Breaks Special which is just a disgusting arm submission; I'm surprised Marty Scurll didn't steal it instead of doing the finger-break stuff. However he does it you can hear a crack every time he puts it on and it really gives you the feeling that the man is a sadist. Anyway, Davey shows a lot of spunk but is beaten down and twisted mercilessly by Breaks who compels him in this evil growl "Tell me now. Just tell me." while he's making a braid out of his arm. It's really disturbing how Davey manages to make his arm look out of joint. Finally he snaps, fights back and manages to get a beautiful bridged pinfall on Breaks, who has to give up the money, which is counted out in front of all the fans. He of course kicks at the cash in the announcer's hand and throws a fit, then holds up the (really cool, small and garish) title belt he has, so the announcer announces HIM as the loser, which has to be a first in any match I've ever seen. A nice little peek into the World of Sport. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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2 hours ago, supremebve said:

Lol, modern NJPW shouldn't have been listed as a blind spot, but you did pick a fairly current match that I've never seen.  I honestly have no idea how I never watched this one, because it was one of those matches that was critically acclaimed.  How blind are you on Joshi?  Like totally blind where you haven't seen anything, or legally blind where you've seen a little, but not really enough to know what you're looking at?

Legally blind. I watched the most recent Stardom show, and I've seen a few matches. You did mention that you didn't see much 2010-2015 NJPW.

 

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Summer Rae and Fandango vs Emma and Santino

This was absolutely charming. A genuine happy surprise. 

This is from an era when I was watching close to zero WWE. I still followed along halfheartedly by reading recaps and lurking on discussion boards. (I was mostly hoping to read that they'd done something good with Bryan Danielson so that I could seek that out and watch it).

This was around the time that my beloved Osaka Pro was staring to peter out, and I can remember reading about Emma becoming one of the most popular wrestlers on NXT by adopting a "clumsy dancer" gimmick and kind of hoping that stuff like that would at least keep the spirit of Osaka Pro alive... but I also remember having so little faith in WWE that I couldn't even be bothered to check it out for myself.

So I went into watching this with only the vaguest of notions about who these wrestlers were. And the pre-match and the entrances, did a pretty much perfect job of laying it all out for me. Fandango and Summer Rae dance each other to the ring. They are absolutely gorgeous, and they move with utmost grace and in perfect sync. Oh, how I loathe them, Then Emma comes out,  doing that awkward dance I'd read about, and she is just adorable. And they announce her partner, and the fans blow the roof off of the place. They are so happy to see Santino! 

In perfect juxtaposition with the grace and timing of Fandango and Summer Rae, Emma and Santino cannot sync up their entrances at all, at first, and then when they finally do hit their stride it is just ridiculous enough to be cute. They even struggle (charmingly) to get into the ring, and by the time the match has started I am all the way into seeing these two lovable goofs taking it to their beautiful and arrogant opponents. 

I love when there is synergy between a wrestler's look, gimmick, and style.  Consider Rick Rude. The too-handsome face with the lush mullet and mustache, the unrealistically ripped abs, the arrogant body language, the hip-swivel taunt... He looked like a guy who would make you look bad in front of your girlfriend just for laughs... and he absolutely acted that way and wrestled that way, as well. Everything worked together. The whole was greater than the sum of its parts.

This match is a modern master-class in that type of thinking. Fandango is sexy enough and moves well enough to justify his arrogance... but he is also just goofy and over-the-top enough that it doesn't seem impossible that Santino could get the upper hand on him. Santino looks like enough of a regular awkward guy to serve as an audience surrogate, but he looks just muscular and fit enough that it is somewhat believable to see him competing in a pro wrestling ring. Summer Rae and Emma are both beautiful fit blondes... but Emma is just goofy and charming enough to seem approachable and likable. Summer Rae carries herself as the exact opposite of approachable and likable. 

And right from the beginning...  from before the beginning, right from the introductions, everything they do is based around the juxtaposition of these easily-understandable characters. Fandango smoothly ascends to the top turnbuckle to taunt the crowd. Santino almost falls over. and so on. It's lovely. I had a big grin on my face the whole time watching this.

Another thing I love in pro wrestling is when something patently absurd is treated with such po-faced seriousness that they are able to get the crowd to totally suspend their disbelief. (examples: The Heart Punch, The Undertaker, Hurricane Helms, Mr. Socko) and obviously The Cobra takes its inspiration from the last of those. And while damn near everything in this match is played for laughs, The Cobra is treated as an important thing and a real threat throughout. That also works to get laughs, but it simultaneously sets up the finish, which pops the crowd and brings them to their feet.

They did a fine job avoiding any of the potential unpleasantness that comes with a mixed tag match. Summer Rae hit Santino with a couple of nice sneak attacks, but there was no "turn about is fair play" payback spot or anything that might have taken the fun out of things for me.

I kind of have the feeling that if they ran this match today we'd be expected to cheer for Fandango and Summer for being so beautiful and talented, and to boo Santino and Emma for being less than perfect and cool. (I get this feeling because of reading about things like face Lacey and heel Bayley). I feel like WWE have possibly lost the thread there. The "Revenge of the Nerds" dynamic of this match was really enjoyable. It's very nice to see the weirdos come out on top once in a while. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, gordi said:

I kind of have the feeling that if they ran this match today we'd be expected to cheer for Fandango and Summer for being so beautiful and talented, and to boo Santino and Emma for being less than perfect and cool. (I get this feeling because of reading about things like face Lacey and heel Bayley).

You have been reading the wrong things then. 

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57 minutes ago, Eivion said:

You have been reading the wrong things then. 

That's certainly possible

 

Les Kellett vs Johnny South

This is my second Les Kellett match. The first was Les Kellett vs Johnny Czeslaw, which I think Jetlag recommended to me in a discussion about comedy matches. I loved that one and came away thinking that I needed to see more Les Kellett. But then, in researching Kellett matches, I came across a quote from ohtani's jacket (another guy whose opinions I respect) where he said something along the lines of "if you've seen one Les Kellett match, you've pretty much seen them all." So, it's taken me this long to get to number two.

Certainly, there were similarities between the Czeslaw and South matches. In both, Kellett gets huge reactions from the crowd out of the timing of his slightly-delayed reactions and comical body language and facial expressions. In both, Kent Walton's dulcet tones and relaxed amusement give an air of class to the action in the ring and make the comedy seem that much more genteel and sophisticated. In both, Kellett gets a lot of mileage from his interactions with the referee. In fact, the interactions in the South match reminded me of the chemistry and timing that Ebessan has with Yukinori Matsui. I have to assume that backing up the comedy with nasty-looking stiff strikes and bursts of smooth technical wrestling was Kellett's trademark. 

There were some pretty significant differences between the South and the Czeslaw matches, though. The main thing is that South is quite a bit bigger than Kellett and so the comedy bits have a clear purpose here: Kellett is trying to goad the bigger man into losing his cool and making a mistake.

Some of the best spots involve little more than Kellett adjusting his posture to make South look foolish when he goes to lock up. Those spots got legit out loud laughs from me.

There are several points during the first couple of rounds where South sneaks in an illegal punch when the ref can't see it. That is paid off magnificently later in the match when Kellett cheap shots South with a closed fist, but immediately sells it as though he has been punched. The ref is completely fooled, and even goes so far as to give South a public warning when Kellett pulls the trick a second time. I get the sense that it's possible that Eddie and Chavo, and also the Florida Brothers, got some ideas from watching Kellett work this match!

Nigel McGuinness and Jon Moxlex may have also been inspired by watching the finish to this match. There's a certain move that both guys use that Kellett does beautifully here. Kellett was truly ahead of his time.

 

 

Edited by gordi
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1 hour ago, gordi said:

That's certainly possible

I'm not sure what you have read about the dynamics of face Lacey and heel Bayley, but none of it is related at all to their looks or coolness. Bayley is an arrogant asshole shitting on the division regularly. Lacey tries to stand up for the division and gets worked up whenever Bayley or Sasha make unkind comments towards her daughter.

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Ospreay vs Shingo: BOSJ finals:

See, in my mind, this means that the side effect of all of this is working. While Gordi and I were tripping over each other in making picks for one another, since we've been on PWO together for a decade, @Six String Orchestra and I don't know each other well at all. That led to this, and I'm totally ok with it. We'll all know each other a little better afterwards, which is great, because we're stuck with each other in isolation for the next couple of months it seems.

Note that I sort of liveblogged this one, and my notes, which are generally readable, are spoiled below. They'll probably be more entertaining than my review.

I consider myself fortunate, in watching this match, that I'm not at all familiar with modern NJPW. I don't think I've seen any at all for the last few years. Maybe a Suzuki match at some point? It means that some of the things that might have frustrated me (and I've seen criticisms elsewhere, some very specific, like how the build to the match hadn't earned all of the fighting outside the ring relative to other matches in this period), didn't bother me much at all. Also, some spots, like the wild abandon flip off the ropes that let Ospreay come back into it mid match, was better for me having never seen it before and probably never seeing it again. There's definitely some issue with it being contrived, but you know the deal: if you only ever see someone try to powerbomb Kidman once, it's pretty novel and you go for it. After the thirtieth time...

The length was an issue. Junior matches, because of their explosiveness and rush to hit big spots, should go closer to 15 than 30 as a general rule. It's a well. You can continue to tap it and get water, but every time you do, you have to go a bit deeper, the water becomes harder to find, and eventually, you might get stuck. They were pretty deep by the end. What generally held it together was the fact that they managed escalation pretty well, all things considered; not perfectly, but pretty well. 

Really though, it was Shingo that made this work. He had a great sense of negative space, of when to just back off and bask in the crowd, in showing his reaction or attitude, in disengaging. That's so necessary in any match that goes this long, but it's also extremely rare in a juniors match. Ospreay had his dead-eyed selling and over the top seriousness, and you believed that he was feeling it in the moment, sure, but it was Shingo's swagger that let you believe the match should still keep going. Their late match selling on the strikes was way better than two guys just grunting and standing up to one another. They held their own athleticism in check at key moments to let things breathe (except for of course, except for when they didn't:)

Some definite structural issues. The match tried to have its cake and eat it too, and while I'm impressed at that sort of ambition (since a match like this would more generally try to have cake, and more cake, and some more cake on top of that), it means that the bad stuff stands out more. Most striking was the exchange between the death valley driver off the top and the sit out liger bomb. I'm going to lose this in my griping, but I really enjoyed the struggle to hit moves. Everything always matters more if it's built up. The problem is this: once you make something matter, if you blow it off, you've done twice the damage to the match. Shingo fought hard out of the fireman's carry so when he hit that top rope death valley driver, it should have been something Ospreay couldn't just instinctively come back from. I think the end point, the flip over to the power bomb, was fine, and within the context believable. In the meantime, however, he'd done a whole "dodge, kick, dodge, twist" exchange, the sort that they opened the match with successfully, but that was absurd during this period. 

Honestly, I get the sense that if it was Ospreay vs someone OTHER than Shingo, the whole match would have been peppered with that stuff. Not to the point where I want to watch more Ospreay to be absolutely sure. 

I hated the leaping spanish fly as a last cut off/transition to set up the finish. Shingo's hitting these huge clotheslines and Ospreay lands something so obviously collaborative, self-bumping, and ridiculous. I get that it's one of his moves and has symbolic value so within the context, it's fine, but it's a stupid context. The rest of the finish worked. Having multiple finishers and escalating finishers means that you can get away with stuff like this, and frankly, other than the super death valley driver, I thought both guys did a decent job protecting big moves (like how Osprey's first cutter was on the apron so he couldn't capitalize, etc). 

So, all in all, I am not offended that this match got the praise it did. I'm sure I'd take some LA Park brawl over it, or even the Makabe vs Gresham (which my impression is that it's not a major 2019 match for either guy) anyday, but I get why people liked this, and frankly, I bet there's a lot that happened in this match that a lot of people rating it so highly probably slept on. 

So long as I don't see another Ospreay match this year, I will be left with relatively warm feelings towards it. A little of a lot goes a long way, but isn't necessarily too much of it. Thanks for making me take my medicine.

NOTES (probably more fun than the review):

 

-I like Shingo's dragon mask thing, sure. He's a Junior 1995 Meng. That's not a bad wrestling look. I liked his little look at the camera before they switched to Ospreay coming.
-I'm from the Tiger Jeet Singh school on this (and this alone): If you come down to the ring with a sword, you better be stabbing someone with it. I guess it fits in with the dragonslayer motif.
-Shingo's got swagger. He seems a lot more relaxed than Ospreay, who kind of seems constipated by his own seriousness.
-Ok, announcer. It's not a clean break if Osprey threatens to forearm him, even if he doesn't. That's a jerk break. -These lockups are good, though. Definitely intense. I'm happy with the early chain wrestling. Lots of little shots to get openings especially by Shingo, but I like Ospreay's expressiveness too (though I have some doubts about it in the stretch). Sense of struggle.
-They're easing into things, the sword sate, the forearm tease, the space given after the first kip up. They let it breathe for a second before they went crazy. 
-Obviously they did go crazy with that rope running and high speed spots, and I feel now that if this was heading towards twenty minutes instead of 30, this all might work. What worked the best here, past how clean and crisp it all was, was that they MISSED all the big stuff, the German, the cutter, even the kick. They hit a few trips and armdrags but it was a tease of all of this stuff for later. And then they gave it space after. We'll see how I feel when they start hitting things and if the keep giving them weight then.
-I like that they went back to a lock up, and the big wind up to Shingo hitting the chop in the corner, then him paying for it as Ospreay countered the cravate and hit his chops, rana, dropkick. They did a dive tease and let things settle in again. I'm expecting this thing to lose me hard and sharply when it does, but it hasn't yet.
-We're still in escalation mode, Shingo tries to fight back in, but gets fought off and we get the first dive, a nice and simple plancha. The brawling on the floor has some weird stuff, the camera man getting in the way of some of the action, and Ospreay, using a chair to steady himself on the guardrail, and it makes it all feel JUST a little more organic.
-The catch, face-on-apron flapjack, DDT feels like a real momentum shift/transition, as Ospreay had an advantage before that. I'd like to see them lean into this a bit and not just immediately go back and forth again. Let's see.
-Instead, Shingo overstretches, the tease whatever fireman's carry thing he'd do on the apron a couple of times, Ospreay kicks out, Shingo dodges, and hits a huge flip dive of his own, major escalation. He killed himself on it. It's pretty much what you'd expect in a BOSJ final. He limps afterwards, but I imagine that goes away soon? Or he can IMMEDIATELY do a springboard stomp in. He keeps selling afterwards, but that's not the best life choice. 
-Again, they're working towards a really good twenty minute match (maybe even 15) and a very, very worrying thirty one.
-Shingo has style. He really punctuates his stuff. Puts space in between one thing and the other, plays to the crowd, happy to do pokey punches in the corner instead of going right to the next spot. Ospreay is an all time bumper. No question there. Shingo's sizzling over pressing the advantage, and that's giving Ospreay openings but he's cutting them off, or shrugging them off, or both. The comeback moment with the flip off the ropes (I feel like this won't pare things down later), was both ridiculous and amazing. If I saw it ten times in ten matches, I'd hate it. Knowing I'll likely never see it again in my life, it totally worked for me.  
-Okay, I've turned hard on Ospreay's expressions. Him laying on the ground dead was terrible. Shingo escaping to the outside was good. I especially liked how he ended up in position for the dive (the space fire thunder flip sault thing) by GRABBING FOR THE LEG and then just being exhausted and staying there. I'd never quite seen that sort of a thing before and it was way better than the dive itself.
-So we're about 15 minutes in, Ospreay just hit a top rope inner forearm/clothesline in and went for a double underhook only for Shingo to come back with a bunch of stuff and a clothesline it really feels like we should be heading for the end. They both hit multiple dives (well just one for Shingo so far, but it was huge). Lots of bombs otherwise. They're selling exhaustion. And yeah, Shingo just flipped Ospreay six times in mid air.
-Case in point, Shingo went for his goofy back unprettier thing, and Ospreay went for the double underhook again. That might have been a good time for it? I will say this, they keep cylcing things well. There is still an upwards escalation. The burst that ended with the flip out stunner thing brought them back to the well, but they replenished the water, you know? You can only do that so many times and you have to do it through measured escalation but it's not run dry yet. 
-The stuff in and around the top rope feels incredibly dramatic and pretty much believable, down to Shingo even hyping the crowd for a moment. I'd buy he'd do that. It ended with a death valley driver that should have probably finished this. You can only escalate so far from here.
-Ok, I pretty much actively hate Osprey's come back burst here. The flip into the torture rack position was amazing but everything after that just annoyed me. He just got hit by a death valley driver off the top. You can do SOME stuff after that. You can't do that much. 
-In the time that I was griping, he flipped over and hit a crazy sit out powerbomb. I would have liked it a lot more if he had JUST done that and not missed all the kicks and done all the other stuff in that burst. One flip over into a power bomb (after the super death valley driver) that'd let him get back into it is fine. Sixteen things before that, not so much. Yes, more is more in these matches, but more that is still less can still be more!
-Shingo's wheelbarrow suplex into into the corner felt like a cut off. Then they did more apron things and Osprey finally hit the cutter, but couldn't immediately capitalize since it's on the apron. Again, this is a good little tease/point of escalation because it means they don't have to waste a kick out, weaken the move. It was a comeback spot and also on the floor so it's all protected and the escalation can continue apace. Now we're waiting for the moment where he hits it in the ring. They get to work the count dramatically AND set up the visual of the corner-to-corner dropkick on the way in.
-The endless flip senton to a kneeling opponent is just dumb because you could do half a rotation less, hurt yourself less, hurt your opponent more. Opsreay adding an extra flip to everything only makes sense if it makes sense from a cost-benefit perspective and it only does half the time since he bumps himself so much because of it.
-He hit the cutter, it was a two. Again, I'm probably okay with this so long as they're going into the stretch NOW. Ospreay got to kick out of a super death valley driver after all. Everyone should get one in a situation like this. Also, I mean, these guys probably have six finishers? We haven't seen the double underhook pay off yet.
-So they're cycling again. Things have slowed down. Is there water still in the well? I will say that while the first ten minutes felt a lot longer than it was, though not necessarily in a bad way, this hasn't felt a hundred minutes long.
-A mean Shingo headbutt with subsequent selling is a good way to find some water. I like the selling on this late match exchange. Nothing stoic at first. Every shot is hurting both guys, and Shingo is even selling his arm from the hitting. Fighting spirit is there but the body is not willing.
-For all the stuff they teased, that Shingo crazy cradle driver thing (made in japan?) should have been teased earlier. I guess I buy it's a two because of the way his leg seemed to be under Ospreay so he wasn't fully pinned? I actually really like Shingo's late match selling here. He's hitting stuff but just reeling big. 
-I get the sense these guys could go for another twenty minutes and hit a poison rana clean 95% of the time, so the fact they barely hit it, again was a nice messy touch. You don't want stuff to look too clean at this point of the match. 
-Wow, I did not like that standing Spanish fly. Opsreay would be so much better if half the stuff he did was just normal and not ridiculous. It'd make all the rest stand out. 
-I liked the rest of the finish fine. He didn't go for the pin again after the cutter but went for the big move he'd been trying to hit all mathc instead. Shame the Spanish Fly counter was the big turning point right at the end there. I mean, obviously, it worked symbolically, from a narrative perspective, but that's only half the game.
-Ok, people in the crowd are crying and I'm done. I'll sit on this a bit and give my thoughts later.

Edited by Matt D
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So, we're not waiting a week to review things this time, just going straight in? And my match goes 45 minutes?

I'll try and get it watched tonight. Might have to relax my 'Watch one to enjoy, then again to review' policy.

If we keep this thing going for a while, might it be an interesting experiment if one week everyone draws themselves, and they have to pick a match that's on their personal 'Do watch' list but they haven't actually seen?

Edited by AxB
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21 minutes ago, AxB said:

So, we're not waiting a week to review things this time, just going straight in? And my match goes 45 minutes?

I'll try and get it watched tonight. Might have to relax my 'Watch one to enjoy, then again to review' policy.

If we keep this thing going for a while, might it be an interesting experiment if one week everyone draws themselves, and they have to pick a match that's on their personal 'Do watch' list but they haven't actually seen?

You have UNTIL Saturday to watch your stuff. I think a lot of us were stuck inside yesterday and didn't have a lot to do, though. Don't feel rushed. Just post your review whenever you've got it ready. 

As for the self-pick, that's an interesting one. Maybe if we make it to Week 5. 

My idea of running this just for a week or two was blown up by the fact I think everyone could use a project like this right now and how well everyone did, so I intend to keep going as long as people are enjoying it.

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3 minutes ago, Super Ape said:

I haven’t heard yet from @NikoBaltimore re: a recommendation. Do you have something in place in case he can’t make it?

Man, I don't know. We're on the honor system here.

Anyone that doesn't get a match gets to watch ICW Randy Savage vs Ron Garvin in a cage?

Nick will probably come through though.

Edited by Matt D
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On 3/15/2020 at 11:43 AM, Super Ape said:

@NikoBaltimore; since you said old puro is a blind spot, I thought I’d recommend you this Showa-era gem; Rikidozan vs. the Destroyer from 1963, for the International Heavyweight Championship. Mainly because Destroyer fucking rules, and his heel work here is an incredible foil for the national hero in Rikidozan.

Thank you for that.  Work has been insane with shittons of people trying to work remotely for the first time.  I'll get my pick in later tonight.

Also, @Matt D I definitely didn't forget.  I just haven't had the chance to pick unfortunately.  I'm hoping to pick soon.

EDIT 2:  This is from Youtube hence the way this is presented to avoid legal issues.  But unless it gets taken down I'd recommend Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak which I think the world of.  If this works then awesome but if not then I'll search again in a bit.

 
Edited by NikoBaltimore
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Dude THANK YOU. I did a search for that myself but if I'd only known to look for the least likely place...

EDIT: That clicking started to drive me batty so I found it elsewhere from a simple Google search. PM me if you want the site.

That was quite literally a bruiser. They decided to have a Regal match and just brought it to each other. No doing signature stuff for its sake, no overkill, just grinding each other into a fine paste and trying to win. The audience probably hasn't seen anything that hard-nosed in quite awhile either, and surprisingly they were counting along from the very start. Hopefully they can keep this going with Gulak because he deserves it, this was a performance that deserves a standing ovation. 

It really is not for the faint of heart though... there were multiple moments where you just cringe at how these guys are taking it. They must've felt like ten pounds of shit in a two ounce bag the next day. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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On 3/15/2020 at 1:07 PM, OctopusCinema said:

@Goodear, here’s your match. It was posted by the Segunda Caida crew recently so if you watched it already I can get you another one. 

Eddy Wiecz/Eddy Koparanian vs. Georges Gueret/Andre Bollet 2/23/56 (part 1&2)

I chose this one for you because in your AEW posts I remembered you liked Sammy Guerrera. So I was trying to think of fun arrogant heels. Gueret and Bollet play the heel roles really well here. Excited to read what you think.

So this was split into two videos stacked right on top of each other and about the same length. So in my diseased brain (don't worry, its only syphilis) I decided the best way to watch it was to watch them both at THE SAME TIME. And let me tell you, this is absolutely not the best way to watch something for a substantive review.  The being said, it actually times itself pretty well.  You actually get the finish to fall two first on video two but it doesn't really ruin the first video because you don't know if the first fall will be there or if they will blitz through the final two falls in the second video. The first fall actually finishes the first video with lots of time to go back to video two for the penultimate conclusion. It's really sort of mind bending so I would recommend something nicely mind-altering like booze or, again, syphilis to enhance the experience.

Watching super old footage actually kind of rocks if you like to see things done in an interesting fashion and wondering why those things fell out of fashion when they are super cool and interesting.  This is mostly holds and counters with bouts of forearm clubbering to punctuate the action. There's lots of 'guy one does this thing, tries to do the thing again and it gets countered' which is lovely for vacuum viewing when you don't know what the tropes and predilections of the wrestlers. I think what makes this work is that the heels aren't incompetent and the faces aren't passive suckers.  The bad guys will out wrestle the faces at times and the faces don't just just let them take advantage. The ending of the second fall is probably the most clever of the three but the finish is also suitably impressive for the time.  I think where this match falters is that there is a lot of stops and starts and doesn't flow like modern grappling tends to. This is a match for someone who can sit and watch it intently and is probably not served well by watching it like a lunatic with ADHD.

I would think this would be a good introduction match to this footage.  If you are interested in older stuff and like grappling akin to the Gulak, Biff, Thatcher matches from the indies a few years ago or Steven Regal during his initial TV Title run, this will be a good thing to spend your time on.

****

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15 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Young David vs. Jim Breaks was a lot of fun. Here you have a 16 year old Davey Boy Smith, very far from his inflated size as the British Bulldog, wrestling Jim Breaks in a handicap match. The rules are that Davey Boy has a one-fall advantage and if he wins, Breaks has to give up 100 pound to him for the loss. Davey, as said, is just a lanky kid who looks like he just got pulled out of his school wrestling program to fight who else -- Breaks, who now that I get a closer look at him has to be (IRL) a hard cunt that glassed more than one unlucky punter down the pub before. He's the kid that got picked on too much in school for his size and now he's gonna take it out on this teenager. Everything is mild at first without Breaks taking advantage which it seems like he doesn't have to considering the youth and inexperience of his opponent. He can't help himself though, and several times manages to bust out the Breaks Special which is just a disgusting arm submission; I'm surprised Marty Scurll didn't steal it instead of doing the finger-break stuff. However he does it you can hear a crack every time he puts it on and it really gives you the feeling that the man is a sadist. Anyway, Davey shows a lot of spunk but is beaten down and twisted mercilessly by Breaks who compels him in this evil growl "Tell me now. Just tell me." while he's making a braid out of his arm. It's really disturbing how Davey manages to make his arm look out of joint. Finally he snaps, fights back and manages to get a beautiful bridged pinfall on Breaks, who has to give up the money, which is counted out in front of all the fans. He of course kicks at the cash in the announcer's hand and throws a fit, then holds up the (really cool, small and garish) title belt he has, so the announcer announces HIM as the loser, which has to be a first in any match I've ever seen. A nice little peek into the World of Sport. 

Breaks is one of those guys who can go from menacing to comedic and back at a moment's notice. He's so fucking versatile as a heel

And yeah, the Breaks Special is #1 on my "why isn't someone using this as a fainisher on TV" wrestling moves list. The slingshot suplex is #2 on that list.

I am planning on getting to the Volk Han match tomorrow. I know DVDVR has general love for Volk Han, so I'm excited to see it. 

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11 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Breaks is one of those guys who can go from menacing to comedic and back at a moment's notice. He's so fucking versatile as a heel

And yeah, the Breaks Special is #1 on my "why isn't someone using this as a fainisher on TV" wrestling moves list. The slingshot suplex is #2 on that list.

I am planning on getting to the Volk Han match tomorrow. I know DVDVR has general love for Volk Han, so I'm excited to see it. 

Amusingly, while Han is very very good, and probably imo the best pure mat worker arguably in the history of wrestling, I think Tamura is the best overall shoot stylist. If you wanted to make the argument he was the best wrestler in Japan in the 90’s, I’d listen to the argument.

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2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

EDIT: That clicking started to drive me batty so I found it elsewhere from a simple Google search. PM me if you want the site.

Since I have the Network I'm good, but thanks though.  If Super Ape wants to review that match then the link may be best for him as I was doing a super quick search in while dealing with work.

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Kenta Kobashi/Jun Akiyama vs Akira Taue/Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan January 7th, 1999)

So in the General thread supremebve gave me another AJ tag but LoneWolf&Subs gave me this one too and after clicking on it and seeing Vader mauling someone there is an obvious choice of which to watch first. Sleazy Ogawa or rampaging Vader? Vader wins every time.

Anyway, Vader is in the business of beating the hell out of Kobashi from a previous semi-final between Kobashi/Akiyama and Vader/Hansen, I presume. Kobashi is wearing the lovely half-Crimson Mask and everyone is trying to separate the two guys. Akiyama runs in to beat on Leon and he pops him with a beautiful punch that looks to just about floor him. They show orderlies sweeping up glass from a broken door window so maybe this was a post-match brawl in the back that escalated to ringside. Because of the fight Kobashi's eye is now wrapped up for the match at hand. We open in progress (!) with Akiyama having Kawada in a Sharpshooter which is about the weirdest way to have an All Japan tag start. They work on Kawada's knee for awhile but eventually Kobashi's eye becomes the focus of the Holy Demon Army's attacks. He gets pummeled with double teams until Akiyama gets in and has the same treatment. Kawada and Taue have a wonderful double big boot that they use to smash both guys. BTW, both seem really fired up here, even the typically super stoic Taue who is Nodowa'ing fools all over the place. It finally boils down to Kobashi working through the pain to beat down Taue while Akiyama tries to restrain a desperate Kawada from breaking the pin. While this could have used blood due to the obvious injury angle the crowd was super hot and the old AJ announcer was creaming his pants the whole time, so they obviously got the job done. 

This reminds me that I have seen way less Vader in All Japan than I need to. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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14 hours ago, Ace said:

Legally blind. I watched the most recent Stardom show, and I've seen a few matches. You did mention that you didn't see much 2010-2015 NJPW.

 

OK, this is the match I think should be the starting point for Joshi.  I watched a few matches before this and thought, I guess this is kind of cool.  Then I watched this, and let me tell you, I didn't have to do any guessing about whether or not I liked it.

By the way, the first NJPW match I remember going out of my way to watch after about 2000 was Nakamura vs. Sakuraba from 1/4/2013.  I'm pretty much completely out of the loop for any Japanese wrestling from the decade before that match.  I remember some of the early Noah stuff, but I kind of just skipped an entire decade of Japanese wrestling.  

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@Goodear, you’re crazy! Haha, I’m gonna have to try the same time viewing. Good observation about the faces not being overt suckers. Anyone stand out for you, performer wise? I fell in love with the heels in this. The sneaky sucker punches in the corner got me. 

Min excited to watch your rec. My work is going to limited hours so I’ll potentially have a lot of time off for the next week or so. If I don’t get to it tonight than for sure tomorrow. 

Also, I may need more Hashimoto madness from @Curt McGirt

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Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Masanobu Fuchi & Yoshinari Ogawa (July 5, 1992)

Kobashi and Kikuchi are holding the belts in this one. The temperature of this is immediately taken as that skinny punk Ogawa pushes our boy Tsuyoshi who throws his towel at him and their respective partners restrain them. Then we clip forward (dammit) to Kikuchi getting beaten on, of course. They bend him backwards over the corner buckles in one of the nastier stretchings you're likely to see. A grinning Fuchi comes in to step on his head and you gotta see the faces Kikuchi pulls. He looks like Fuchi insulted his momma. Fuchi cares not, proceeding to punch him directly in the face and crotch him on the top rope. He manages to get the hot tag to Kobashi who comes in and just mauls Fuchi in super stiff manner, vicious chops, shaking the shit out of him in a sleeper, but Fuchi and then Ogawa go after his already injured knee. This becomes key as he ends up moonsaulting Ogawa and hurts himself even further. This of course does not stop him from busting out not one but two of his preposterous Rolling Cradles. However it isn't him but Kikuchi that pulls off the win with a rollup on Fuchi! Now that's something you don't see too often in All Japan. I'd like to see an unclipped version of this, seemed like a big chunk was missing. What is there is pretty good though. Do I think it's better than the Can-Ams match? I haven't seen that in awhile but due to the clipping I'd say no, and also because that one is so iconic in the careers of Furnas and Kroffat. 

As far as Hash goes, try this on for size: 

 

A younger, slimmer Hash was just as surly. The Zangiev match is particularly good for its relatively short length. Guess how Street Fighter 2 got it's character Zangief? 

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