Eivion Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, supremebve said: Ok, for what it's worth I didn't include job guys in my original post, because those guys are kind of there because they're limited. I was looking at the roster, and thought about adding Curt Hawkins and then decided that he didn't count. I'd watch 39043980938i493 Erick Rowan matches before I watched The Singh Brothers or Curtis Axel, but that's not really what we're talking about. Erick Rowan is a perfectly fine wrestler who you can trust to be on television for 10 minutes without embarrassing himself if you don't script out every spot for him. I don't think he's very good, but the kind of micromanaging we're talking about seems like overkill for a roster full of guys who at the very least are competent. For the record, I think Riddick Moss is probably better than you're giving him credit for being. He's not the next Daniel Bryan, but that's a really big, really athletic guy who just happens to have the charisma of a block of cheese. I'm not talking about parmigiano reggiano or something like that, I'm talking about American cheese that probably has to legally be called "cheese like product." I actually like Moss fine, but I would rather watch Rowan than him. I agree that that micromanaging runs too far. Its not something we are likely to see gone until Vince dies unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Since this whole conversation started with DDP, does anyone know the reason he is so consistently shit on by old Attitude Era guys? Seriously, anyone who worked in WWE at the time, who weren't WCW castoffs seem to have nothing good to say about him. On the other hand, you don't really find many WCW guys who have anything bad to say about him at all. It's really strange. Guys like Foley and Austin seem to love him, but HHH, The Undertaker, etc. seem to have an issue with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, supremebve said: For the record, I think Riddick Moss is probably better than you're giving him credit for being. He's not the next Daniel Bryan, but that's a really big, really athletic guy who just happens to have the charisma of a block of cheese. I'm not talking about parmigiano reggiano or something like that, I'm talking about American cheese that probably has to legally be called "cheese like product." Moss seems to me like one of the many exhibits for the change of NXT from "developmental promotion" to "WWE's in-house super indie" being the problem. He's in that "he's green, but he'd likely be better with some experience" level a lot of the homegrowns in WWE are at. The only problem is, as NXT moved from "let's give these homegrowns who are TV-ready to TV and give them the reps they need so they can become polished stars on the main roster" becomes "shiny indy worker! Shiny shiny shiny...aww, not shiny anymore. NEW SHINY! Shiny shiny shiny..." , that suddenly turned it to "they're one of the best PC students and ready to start getting match time...but they're not better than this new indie signing we got who is one of the top 1% of best wrestlers in the world today. If they're not better than one of the best wrestlers on the planet today, back in the Performance Center for more seasoning. What? No, of course people don't get better from having matches and learning what works and what doesn't work to an audience. That's silly talk. More lifting weights until they become as good as one of the world's greatest by osmosis!" When the smoke clears, you end up with guys like Riddick Moss, where it's "you've been in the PC for five years, you're too good to let walk away, you're not good enough for NXT and you're never going to be good enough for NXT because the bar will keep rising just higher than your head is at...fuck it. Go to the main roster, sink or swim." Quote Since this whole conversation started with DDP, does anyone know the reason he is so consistently shit on by old Attitude Era guys? Seriously, anyone who worked in WWE at the time, who weren't WCW castoffs seem to have nothing good to say about him. On the other hand, you don't really find many WCW guys who have anything bad to say about him at all. It's really strange. Guys like Foley and Austin seem to love him, but HHH, The Undertaker, etc. seem to have an issue with him. I'm pretty sure the reason he was shit on was because of that "call it in the ring" vs. "script out the matches" thing, possibly combined with the "I was a top star in WCW, you were a top star in the WWE, we're basically equals so it's okay if I give you my script and try calling the matches" thing. So, likely mostly just pettiness. Edited March 5, 2020 by SorceressKnight 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Craig H said: Titus has the clumsiest footwork I've ever seen in a ring. Out of the ring too EDIT: Goddamn, I never noticed it, but he is inches away from going face first into the ring support. That would have suuuuuuucked. Edited March 5, 2020 by Curt McGirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: As I understand it, the agents lay out matches move for move now, at least for the undercard guys. It seems like its another way to keep talent from moving forward in the WWE Caste system of getting over the way TJ Perkins talked about it. If your at his experience level, you should have more leeway over your match than someone who fresh from developmental system new to the main roster. With all these indy darlings and international talent even at the mid card and below alot of these guys shouldn't be so handcuffed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Titus was the best house-of-fire in the 2nd Primetime Players run. And yeah, NXT used to be this charming place where green guys with potential got better and you watched it through that lens. Now it's a super indy and I borderline hate it to be quite honest. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonzombie Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 The nWo to appear on a moment of bliss this friday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterCopperpot Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: Out of the ring too EDIT: Goddamn, I never noticed it, but he is inches away from going face first into the ring support. That would have suuuuuuucked. Ted Beneke says hello 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, D.Z said: The nWo to appear on a moment of bliss this friday. Along with this, I didn't see it mentioned earlier but Austin will be on Monday's 3/16 Raw. They're really doing their best to keep me from getting excited about these shows. I'm sure both will do great numbers and the right lessons will be learned. Wake me up when they're finally running Hogan vs Flair in Saudi Arabia. Edited March 6, 2020 by West Newbury Bad Boy 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ComingToAmerica said: Titus was the best house-of-fire in the 2nd Primetime Players run. Ehhhhhh... All I can remember of Titus’s in ring career was that it would take him 30 seconds before he would start running on fumes. Edited March 6, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, ComingToAmerica said: And yeah, NXT used to be this charming place where green guys with potential got better and you watched it through that lens. Now it's a super indy and I borderline hate it to be quite honest. The NXT Retribution season was so fun to watch because it didn't seem overproduced like the other Shows at the time. The angles were easy to get in to almost like the were doing what they wanted having fun and you'd get some really good matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: Ehhhhhh... All I can remember of Titus’s in ring career was that it would take him 30 seconds before he would start running on fumes. I liked Titus' group with Apollo, Dana Brooke, and Tozawa. I think it had potential to be a kind of cool oddball pairing like the Ziggler/Big E/AJ Lee team a few years ago Edited March 6, 2020 by Zakk_Sabbath 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Chris Jericho is your 2019 WON wrestler of the year, so there's that. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) What the fuck. The man had TWELVE matches last year and beats Okada. Right. Edited March 6, 2020 by Ryan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) Quote Jericho was AEW’s first champion and carried the title in strong feuds and with good interviews. He was really the cornerstone of a new group that had a level of success in the U.S. that no company has had for 20 years. People saw his all-around performance as the face and headliner of the new company as the most valuable wrestler of the year, who also had the match quality. Makes sense to me. Also to be clear, the Flair/Thesz award is for draw, not most outstanding. Jericho was on TV for the last three months of the year and was the central figure of AEW's PPV & B/R Live shows. If he had a year like that in AEW's sophomore year, he wouldn't be winning. Cody finishing tied for 8th for most improved makes no sense to me at all however. He went from the 3 star savior to having a five star match and being the most captivating babyface in North American wrestling in some while. Much respect to what Lance did in 2019 but he was already going hard in the paint before his back surgery. Edited March 6, 2020 by Oyaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Cody was fucking great in 2018 as well, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said: Cody was fucking great in 2018 as well, though. Handsome Battle and Aldis match. Missing anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Oyaji said: Handsome Battle and Aldis match. Missing anything else? Both Aldis matches, the Omega matches, hell, even the rare pretty good three way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 We were probably sleeping on Cody for a while because he wrestles the way he does and he was doing it in a world where Kenny was sucking up all the oxygen. The three star thing was never really merited. Now that people have seen him at his best, some of those matches between WWE and AEW are going to age pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: Both Aldis matches, the Omega matches, hell, even the rare pretty good three way. I don't love the SF Omega match but I never went back to watch it on tape. I was so exhausted at that point of the night though so it would've had to been Kenny near his best to get me really invested. The ROH Mania weekend match fucking ruled, so defo agree on that. So that is fair. He had a better 2018 after you bring up those ones as well. @West Newbury Bad Boy, I liked the Okada IWGP challenge in the US and the bull rope match in ROH was good too. He could be anything from totally average to very good and great when given the right opponent and story. But his character work as a babyface really outdid anything he did as a heel. Too bad the tattoo makes him a heel by default now. Edited March 6, 2020 by Oyaji 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Oyaji said: I don't love the SF Omega match but I never went back to watch it on tape. I was so exhausted at that point of the night though so it would've had to been Kenny near his best to get me really invested. The ROH Mania weekend match fucking ruled, so defo agree on that. So that is fair. He had a better 2018 after you bring up those ones as well. @West Newbury Bad Boy, I liked the Okada IWGP challenge in the US and the bull rope match in ROH was good too. He could be anything from totally average to very good and great when given the right opponent and story. But his character work as a babyface really outdid anything he did as a heel. Too bad the tattoo makes him a heel by default now. You would have thought his tattoo artist would have told him it would have looked better on an arm or his chest. I think it would actually look really good opposite the Dream tattoo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, supremebve said: Since this whole conversation started with DDP, does anyone know the reason he is so consistently shit on by old Attitude Era guys? Seriously, anyone who worked in WWE at the time, who weren't WCW castoffs seem to have nothing good to say about him. On the other hand, you don't really find many WCW guys who have anything bad to say about him at all. It's really strange. Guys like Foley and Austin seem to love him, but HHH, The Undertaker, etc. seem to have an issue with him. What did Triple H say about him? There's a clip on Youtube where DDP has nothing but good things to say about Hunter. Don't know what's going the other way. Edited March 6, 2020 by West Newbury Bad Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) HHH and Taker are probably just following the WWE rhetoric of shitting on anything WCW. I liked early Taker obviously, but god he seems like the biggest ass kisser. The only thing I ever liked about HHH before NXT was having Ode To Joy as his theme during the blueblood days. Edited March 6, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: The only thing I ever liked about HHH before NXT was having Ode To Joy as his theme during the blueblood days. That was boss. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: Out of the ring too EDIT: Goddamn, I never noticed it, but he is inches away from going face first into the ring support. That would have suuuuuuucked. That's what put YOSHI-HASHI out for months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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