MAR 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 minutes ago, sabremike said:

I may be completely wrong but I swear that I remember hearing that there was a picture or video of the kid having clearly bladed in a prior match (which if true makes him asking Jack to do it even more bizarre and crazy).

It's crazy indeed but some wrestlers on the way up may think that's some badge of honor.

[Casey]

So, we're assuming Mass Transit was trained by Killer Kowalski because... he lived in the region? What? 

[Curt McGirt]

Jack said on the Forever Hardcore doc that the kid asked him to get color because he didn't know how to do it, and that when the time came "I cut the shit out of him." He said you could see how his skull was mended together from the depth of the cut. 

Believe me, he is very unrepentant about this.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[ReiseReise]

1 hour ago, SorceressKnight said:

Basically from what it was: Mike Levy was some kid claiming to be a wrestler making cringey Youtube promos. Ian booked the kid for a women's deathmatch tournament- he apparently made a stiff shot on Mickie Knuckles, then Ian and a bunch of people ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him. (Considering this was also a "the guy's being booked in a women's deathmatch tournament before intergender became normal", that should have at least been a red flag that at the very least Levy wasn't being taken seriously and it wouldn't have been the big break he thought it was, if not a red flag that Ian planned this beatdown out all along.)

My memory is very fuzzy, but from what I recall, Knuckles headbutted Levy, pretty much stiffing herself.

A billion people including little kids hit the guy with weapons (Levy continued to sell everything), nobody trying to be safe with him and Ian berated him on the microphone how worthless he was, how Mickie would be on national TV and now had a lump on her forehead etc. It looked horrible on video, and despite him coming accross like an idiot, I felt real sympathy for Levy. 

He seemed to think "Just let me get out of this as healthy as possible", he definetly and understandably looked scared. Basically it was assault and battery camouflaged as a Death Match. 

[sabremike]

Weird completely random idea for someone to do a long form post/article/dissertation on: The Christopher Street Connection in ROH and the evolving attitude of fans towards wrestlers with a gay gimmick. People always forget (and I can't blame Sinclair for wanting people to forget) that the very first segment on the very first ROH show was essentially The Hit Squad literally committing an act of gay bashing and destroying the CSC (Who were heels merely for being gay). When I went to my first ever ROH show (Road to the Title) they did another gay baiting skit, but even though they were being portrayed as heels quite a few people gave them a babyface reaction when they said they intended to turn the promotion into "Ring of Homosexuality". Shortly thereafter they had clearly become babyfaces to the fans and it was being reflected in the booking. There was a match being taped for TV with them when that disgusting mutant Stanley (If you went to Philly area shows in the 90's and 00's you know who he is. If you don't consider yourself lucky) started a chant with a word beginning with "F" and rhyming with "Maggot" (which come to think of it that second part of it is a fitting description of him) and the fans responded by shouting him down with a chant of "Homophobe". They ended up out of the promotion for a few months after (IIRC) Buff E retired but they made a spectacular return on the first ever NYC show that tore the house down. Sadly I think shortly thereafter the pair had a real bitter falling out and vanished from the indy scene for good. But I contend that their ROH run, in showing that the idea that being gay or having a gay gimmick instantly made you a heel was obsolete thinking with a changing audience was a small yet notable example of a paradigm shift in both society and wrestling fandom. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by sabremike

[Brian Fowler]

10 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

I know they filmed a bunch of stuff for that show. Some of it aired as a short special later that year.

The WrestleMania 19 doc was included with the original DVD release of WrestleMania 20, as well.

[Sky Blue Sam]

I think the line from the Mike Levy incident was that the lump he gave Mickie on the head might affect her new role in TNA. Which ended a week or so later when she broke her leg at an IWA MS show 

[nate]

47 minutes ago, Sky Blue Sam said:

I think the line from the Mike Levy incident was that the lump he gave Mickie on the head might affect her new role in TNA. Which ended a week or so later when she broke her leg at an IWA MS show 

Because karma.

[paintedbynumbers]

Also the kid who came into the ring with a weapon was Ian's son if I remember correctly. His son now wrestles for IWA-MS. 

[AxB]

1 hour ago, Sky Blue Sam said:

I think the line from the Mike Levy incident was that the lump he gave Mickie on the head might affect her new role in TNA. Which ended a week or so later when she broke her leg at an IWA MS show 

Vince Russo found out her name was Mickie Knuckles, and immediately changed her first name to Moose. But Tenay and West no sold that she was supposed to be Moose Knuckles and made her a 'one word name' Wrestler while she was there.

[The Natural]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:23 AM, MORELOCK said:

So he missed the joke because there wasn't a funny part.

"Hogan didn't get squashed by Brock quickly enough" is the kind of revisionism that you could definitely expect from some in the IWC - if they ever talked about this match. But of course, the reason no one talks about this match is because Hogan did the right thing and it made Brock look like a million dollars. Can't be giving Hogan any credit for literally anything without Natural coming and spamming threads. IIRC, people thought it was a great way to get Brock over, but even then no one was willing to praise Hogan too loudly.

 

On 3/24/2020 at 12:24 PM, supremebve said:

This is right up there with the, "Michael Jackson was vastly underrated as a vocalist," twitter thread I saw earlier.  Who is underrating Michael Jackson as a vocalist?  Name all zero of them.

Hulk Hogan is fucking Hulk Hogan.  Sure there is plenty of completely and totally valid criticism of Hulk Hogan, but at the end of the day no one is minimizing his importance as a wrestler.  Whent @The Natural says, "I have strong opinions about former WWF/WCW/WWE Champion Terry Bollea which you should PM me about. But I wanted to express them here too because I can't help myself" it's because he's proved to be an irredeemable asshole over and over again.  He's probably the most important wrestler in American history, almost anything you say about him as a wrestler comes second to that fact.  Everything that is said about him as a man is pretty much 100% valid.  Claiming that Hulk Hogan of all people doesn't get enough credit, is absurd.  There is pretty much no one in history who has gotten more real, tangible, over the top credit.

Thank you, @supremebve. Needed to read a post like this as I'm having a horrible day. No need to take personal shots, @MORELOCK. I knew that word filter was coming. I don't like Hulk Hogan: one of the most selfish top liners ever, not putting over Bret Hart for the WWF Title at King of the Ring 1993, what he and Eric Bischoff did to Sting at WCW Starrcade 1997 and worst of all, he's a fucking racist. I make no apologies for feeling that way.

[J.T.]

You learn something new every day.

Was talking to the staff here at New Horizons training center and one of them is a pro wrasslin' scholar.  

I discovered that at one point in time, Russ Meyer big boobs movie siren, Raven De La Croix, was engaged to Greg "The Hammer" Valentine in 1986, but they broke it off for reasons undisclosed.

Edited March 26, 2020 by J.T.

[CSC]

Every time you mention working at New Horizons I can't help but think of you as some shirtless Animal Crossing character scaring all the villagers who come knock on your door and it cracks me up every time.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by CSC

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, CSC said:

Every time you mention working at New Horizons I can't help but think of you as some shirtless Animal Crossing character scaring all the villagers who come knock on your door and it cracks me up every time.  

Ha.  I'm taking a class at New Horizons and our instructor is pretty awesome.  I try to read the board as fast as I can during breaks.

VMWare concepts is kicking my ass.  Takes all of my geek acumen just to keep pace.

Edited March 26, 2020 by J.T.

[Log]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

But I contend that their ROH run, in showing that the idea that being gay or having a gay gimmick instantly made you a heel was obsolete thinking with a changing audience was a small yet notable example of a paradigm shift in both society and wrestling fandom. 

I attended an OVW show when I first moved to Louisville in 2005. I was shocked to see a tag team doing an “effeminate” gimmick being hugely over as faces with the Kentucky crowd. It was The Heartbreakers. I think they had a very short run on Raw around that time (like every OVW guy/gal in that period) as the Heart Throbs. 

[Technico Support]

On 3/24/2020 at 8:48 PM, SorceressKnight said:

But that's related to a similar problem that also ties to why people like Hogan get a bad rap for the "he didn't cause [x] to win the World Title!".

On the first side- wrestling is not even just a zero-sum game where for one to win, another must fail- but goes further to that: No one can succeed unless another person agrees to fail in order to let them succeed. You can't hold someone saying "I don't want to fail for this person's benefit" against anyone, because there's reason to believe that the promotion themselves will punish the people who agree to fail (with claims made companies will take people's losses and use it to say "well, you're worth less money to us because you lost to this person.") 

On the other side- ultimately, the problem with saying "he didn't cause [x] to win the World Title!" is subjective. Sometimes, the spot was them agreeing to fail, sometimes there were other aspects otherwise, and many times it's down to "they're good. This person is BETTER". 

I agree with all this but I'm still salty over Honky Tonk Man refusing to drop the IC belt, creating a chain reaction that caused DiBiase to not get the WWF title.

21 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Man...watching Starrcade 83 where you get so many blade jobs and a couple hard ways (the ABSOLUTELY absurd one with Kevin Sullivan on Scott McGhee, Angelo Mosca blading his own arm, the insanity with Colon/Abdullah where they leave giants puddles still pristine and visible the entire night, the insanity of Piper and Valentine, and then Race/Flair), it's insane that some of these shows just didn't get shut down midway.

Crockett promotions was so blade happy.  I can't remember what show it was, maybe one of the Bash VHS tapes, that featured a Tully/Dusty first blood match where JJ Dillon bladed off a Dusty elbow before the bell and spent the whole bout watching from ringside with blood all over his face.  I mean the psychology was sound: get over the elbow as a weapon that will definitely bust Tully open if he hits it.  But still, a manager blading and casually hanging out looking like steak tartare the rest of the  match was pretty wild.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Technico Support

[OSJ]

5 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

Also the kid who came into the ring with a weapon was Ian's son if I remember correctly. His son now wrestles for IWA-MS. 

"Wrestles"? It that what it is that he's doing in there? I must say, the wormy apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

[paintedbynumbers]

5 minutes ago, OSJ said:

"Wrestles"? It that what it is that he's doing in there? I must say, the wormy apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

Here is a topic I would love to hear debated.  Who was the bigger influencer  Heyman or Ian Rotten?  Both got a decent talent pool to essentially kill themselves for very low money.  Both also owe talent a decent ammt of $$$ too.   Ian had guys like Hero, Punk, and Colt working for him regularly while Paul had guys like Dreamer, Raven, and Shane.  

[OSJ]

6 hours ago, Sky Blue Sam said:

I think the line from the Mike Levy incident was that the lump he gave Mickie on the head might affect her new role in TNA. Which ended a week or so later when she broke her leg at an IWA MS show 

Which begs the question, "What sort of idiot do you have to be to jeopardize a TV deal by wrestling in front of the forty or so glue-sniffers that show up for an IWA MS show?"

[Curt McGirt]

5 hours ago, AxB said:

Vince Russo found out her name was Mickie Knuckles, and immediately changed her first name to Moose. But Tenay and West no sold that she was supposed to be Moose Knuckles and made her a 'one word name' Wrestler while she was there.

[Matt D]

I'm sure someone will be interested in this:

 

[paintedbynumbers]

4 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Which begs the question, "What sort of idiot do you have to be to jeopardize a TV deal by wrestling in front of the forty or so glue-sniffers that show up for an IWA MS show?"

this I have to disagree with. Wrestling in front of those "40 glue sniffers" got Punk, Colt, Hero, Jimmy Jacobs, Alex Shelly, Chris Sabin, Nate Webb, and others noticed by companies like TNA and ROH.  Danny Daniels is another one. He now runs AAW.   I do however see the point of "why would someone already on TV work for Ian"  but you have to remember  they had a weird relationship. Mickie was living with the Rottens and someone can probably confirm they had more than a father-daughter type relationship.  

[nate]

12 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

this I have to disagree with. Wrestling in front of those "40 glue sniffers" got Punk, Colt, Hero, Jimmy Jacobs, Alex Shelly, Chris Sabin, Nate Webb, and others noticed by companies like TNA and ROH.  Danny Daniels is another one. He now runs AAW.   I do however see the point of "why would someone already on TV work for Ian"  but you have to remember  they had a weird relationship. Mickie was living with the Rottens and someone can probably confirm they had more than a father-daughter type relationship.  

There's a YouTube vid floating around where Ian is on a radio show and Mickie is confronting him about all sorts of shitty things, all the while Ian sits there merely saying, "Nope.  Didn't happen.  You're wrong."  And if half of what she's saying is true ... ugh.

[odessasteps]

2 hours ago, CSC said:

Every time you mention working at New Horizons I can't help but think of you as some shirtless Animal Crossing character scaring all the villagers who come knock on your door and it cracks me up every time.  

Did he come to the door just wearing jean shorts? 
 

#deeepdive

[J.T.]

26 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Did he come to the door just wearing jean shorts? 
#deeepdive

No one will get that joke other than Melraz and Stout.