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FEB 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


RIPPA

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Regarding the Post-Mania RAW thing - I am doing a scan to see if I can find what y'all are talking about

One thing I immediately noticed was that last year they were still doing the Superstar Shakeup the 2nd week after Mania. So those first weeks shows were basically placeholders because they were moving everyone around the 2nd week. So there are hints that since the Post-Mania RAW would always do good numbers that they don't have to load them as much because the focus would be the Shakeup Shows the following week.

Again - I am trying to pull better quotes but some of it could have been from them doing the Shakeup. Which who the fuck knows what they are doing this year?

Certainly not them.

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17 minutes ago, Infinit said:

HE SPOKE ABOUT THE NEW BREED WHEN HE WAS COVERING JCP ON HIS PODCAST AND DID NOT CONDEMN THE GIMMICK AS "BUSINESS EXPOSING" OR EVER PEARL CLUTCHED ABOUT IT AS HE DOES OVER KRIS STATLANDER'S ALIEN GIMMICK.

Hope that cleared that up for you, pal


It didn't. I asked what he said, not what he didn't say.

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If our conversation is frustrating you, you don't have to answer my question. I'm pretty sure I already know what the answer is, just wanted to give you an opportunity to correct me if I'm wrong.

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4 hours ago, Zartan said:

I’m not going to defend Tampa but considering WrestleMania is attended by ALOT of people not from the city it is taking place in I think their may be other factors. Perhaps all these people who go for the spectacle from out of town are still going but the die hards who actually pay attention to the shows are turned off by the shitty booking and lack of direction leading up to this particular WrestleMania. 

I am genuinely curious if the increase in "wrestling tourism" attendance for Wrestle Kingdom and AEW basically establishing May Las Vegas and September Chicago shows as "destination" wrestling shows has eaten away into the numbers for Wrestlemania this year as well. I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility to estimate that there are maybe up to 5,000 fans that normally would have traveled to Mania in previous years that spent the money to go to WK or the two big AEW shows last year that are skipping a Mania trip this year.

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I dunno what this convo morphed into, but it's extremely easy to discuss things that happened a few decades ago in hindsight. Either way, none of that has any bearing on the landscape of wrestling now.

Where are Cornette's ideas (or at least something he contributed to) within the last 1-2 years that have been applied to WWE or AEW or even ROH or Impact? If you're supposedly limiting people, you have to be in those rooms and those spaces. He is not exactly to wrestling what Paul Finebaum is to SEC football. He is part of this current wrestling movement of documentation where he gets to be a combo between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. Now instead of shoot interviews, it's wrestling podcasts. That's perfectly fine because he is a hell of an historian. However, we shouldn't act like it's more than that.

Moreover, speaking of Statlander....Meltzer brought up how Jim Ross is basically the voice of the "no silly shit" old school crowd for AEW in regards to the alien gimmick. So if any of Watts' proteges have influence, it would be Jim Ross and not Cornette. So are we arguing that Leroy McGuirk and Bill Watts are limiting Jordynne Grace from being a superstar wrestler because of what they passed down to Jim Ross? That's a hell of a reach. And you're going to get no bigger company man than Jim Ross no matter how big of cranky old fart he may be. When someone asked Conrad and JR about Cornette in Glasgow, he could have buried AEW's creative indirectly and he didn't. He may agree with Cornette about 90% of anything, but the reason why Jim Ross has a job with one of the big companies and Cornette doesn't is Jim Ross will do what he is fucking told to do. In exchange, Jim Cornette gets a loyal podcast following for his rebellious spirit. And what's funny is that I think Cornette kept saying the NXT commentary was better than AEW's commentary when he first started reviewing the Wednesday shows is cause his boys Schiavone and JR are a part of that. He never picked out individual elements as to why (at least before I stopped listening to him altogether including the Drive Thru) other than Excalibur wearing a mask which has absolutely no bearing on the commentary. And IMO it's not even about commentary as it is the management would probably listen to Schiavone (even though Tony has never had a desire to be in creative or upper management going back to his chance to get the EP spot for TV Bischoff eventually got) or Jim Ross if they had ideas whether it be on the creative or production end. I'm not saying that Cornette wants to work for AEW as much as that's a certain respect and deference and (probably most importantly) sincerity given to those guys that Cornette probably never got in TNA or running OVW or in creative with WWF or in ROH. For these guys who have paid their dues and been in pro wrestling for 30 and 40 plus years, that means a whole hell of alot.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

I guess I’ll dissent and say that regardless of how they get there, Goldberg/Reigns and Fiend/Cena (using the Cena/Umaga LMS format) sounds like a perfectly awesome pair of SD main events for WM and a big step up from Fiend/Reigns, to me. I’d actually find it really refreshing to get two big man sprints as the world title matches after so many NXT forced epics have me burnt out on the whole thing.

I don't care about any of that too much..   Reigns/Goldberg could be interesting but you sacrifice The Fiend for it,  why is The Fiend taking up so much TV time if he's going out on his back to a 53-year old part timer.  Then to make matters worse Goldberg wouldn't be sticking around so then they would have to go back to The Fiend in a prominent role after he's been jobbed 

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1 hour ago, Oyaji said:

He has defended himself in the past with The Mummy bullshit by saying it was Rick Rubin's idea, has he not?

It was Rubin’s idea (Gotta try and please the money man) and Cornette tried to make it make sense as best he could. 

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4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

It was Rubin’s idea (Gotta try and please the money man) and Cornette tried to make it make sense as best he could. 

Again I'm not sure how we got to the Prince Kharis thing or the New Breed

But wait wait....

So when he does it, it's pleasing the money man. When the Young Bucks and Omega or whomever do it, it's wasting Tony Khan's money and fiduciary irresponsibility. Yeah, he can miss me with that.

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2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Same with booking the Mummy in SMW. The announcers did not say it was a real mummy, they said it was a guy dressed as a mummy. 

They cut off his thumb, and sand poured out of the hole.

Just watched Prince Kharis' debut on YouTube. One of the announcers (Les Thatcher?) was very cynical about whether he was a real 35000 year old spirit or not, but Darryl Van Horne was really selling that it was.

Who was Prince Kharis anyway? Was it Kane? Because Unabom did turn up in SMW right after they shitcanned the Mummy gimmick, and he did spend the first few years of his career as a guy who gets repackaged constantly.

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3 minutes ago, AxB said:

They cut off his thumb, and sand poured out of the hole.

Just watched Prince Kharis' debut on YouTube. One of the announcers (Les Thatcher?) was very cynical about whether he was a real 35000 year old spirit or not, but Darryl Van Horne was really selling that it was.

Who was Prince Kharis anyway? Was it Kane? Because Unabom did turn up in SMW right after they shitcanned the Mummy gimmick, and he did spend the first few years of his career as a guy who gets repackaged constantly.

No, it was just some tall guy off the indies named Rob Mayze.

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14 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

So when he does it, it's pleasing the money man. When the Young Bucks and Omega or whomever do it, it's wasting Tony Khan's money and fiduciary irresponsibility. Yeah, he can miss me with that.

According to Jim Mitchell (note: someone not named Cornette), the Prince Kharis conversation went something like this.

Rubin: I want you to have a wrestling mummy.

Cornette: That's not going to work with these fans, with the type of wrestling that we're putting on.

Rubin: I'm footing the bills for this company and that's what I want!

Cornette: OK then.

 

Truthfully, do we really know exactly how much input Tony Khan has in things? All I've really heard is that he's been more hands-on in the last few weeks, which seems to coincide with the show having a pretty big improvement in quality. Things that didn't seem to be clicking with the fans, like the whole Nightmare Collective angle, and the Janela/Sabian feud seem to have gone by the wayside. Marko Stunt hasn't been wrestling. MJF gets regular promo time.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Campbell said:

According to Jim Mitchell (note: someone not named Cornette), the Prince Kharis conversation went something like this.

Rubin: I want you to have a wrestling mummy.

Cornette: That's not going to work with these fans, with the type of wrestling that we're putting on.

Rubin: I'm footing the bills for this company and that's what I want!

Cornette: OK then.

 

Truthfully, do we really know exactly how much input Tony Khan has in things? All I've really heard is that he's been more hands-on in the last few weeks, which seems to coincide with the show having a pretty big improvement in quality. Things that didn't seem to be clicking with the fans, like the whole Nightmare Collective angle, and the Janela/Sabian feud seem to have gone by the wayside. Marko Stunt hasn't been wrestling. MJF gets regular promo time.

I think the Janela/Sabian not being featured has more to do with TV time availability. They were around not too long ago. However, if something needed to be axed for space, I'm pretty sure that would be the first to go especially now they have Britt Baker having her own segments or other people like Nyla cutting promos that usually just wrestle.

As for Tony Khan, I'm pretty sure he has always been around when he is available. Cornette made it sound like he was some rich, old invalid with Alzheimer's or sequestered away somewhere like Ted Turner. Whether he is the head guy or not, he knows what's going on with his company and likely even contributing his own ideas.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As for Janela and Sabian, they're facing each other in a street fight on Wednesday's Dark, so the feud hasn't gone to the wayside completely. I assume this is the blowoff for the feud.

Maybe this is our new DDP/Johnny B. Badd where they feud off and on for four years and curtain jerk AEW PPVs until one of them leaves and the other one becomes a big superstar a couple years after that.

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Sabian has a look, but I don’t think he has enough to set himself apart yet. He has the issue that AEW has another version of him in Sammy Guevara. And even though he was booked to go over him in the first match in company history, Sammy still came away from that match looking like he had more to him than just a look, unlike Sabian. I think Kip needs a refresh to set himself apart. Something that utilizes his good looks, but isn’t a retread of somebody else on the roster.

Janela... Boy, Janela. Janela does way too much in the ring. He can do things that other people do on the roster, but nowhere near as well. He’s like Jimmy Garvin, and I like Jimmy, but Jimmy was the lesser of everybody else when booked as a solo act. I’m glad they stopped booking him with other top guys for now. He had no business going over Rey Fenix awhile back ago, and he really shouldn’t be a face.

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No matter how much Cornette trashes AEW, he's helping them by giving them his attention. You think that any of the ELITE is bothered by Cornette giving them attention. I don't understand  why people so worked up by his opinions, I never understood that. This guy spends 90 minutes on a product he hates, that should be tourcher for him. They obviously get downloads and YouTube views other wise he wouldn't keep doing it. I find it entertaining sometimes but I wont listen every week. Him bashing AEW isn't going to make me not watch and I'm sure it's the same for alot of that audience. If anything it'll draw people to AEW. Alot of promotions would love for Cornette to spend an entire podcast  trashing their product to be honest 

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The thing about Cornette (whether he's working a gimmick or actually an angry loon) is he made a bunch of predictions about AEW and the Bucks, Omega, etc. which have all turned out to be really, really wrong. So instead of admitting that and moving on, he doubles down and just lashes out further. I took a look at his Twitter the other day and whoever above said he's like Trump is spot on.  

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With the form Alex Shelley's been in lately (and Kushida contracted to WWE) hopefully this means another run for the MCMGs. Maybe even in AEW, considering the only good bit of the Bucks' TNA run was their Motor City feud.

Edited by AxB
spelt Motor wrong somehow
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RE: Tony Khan's involvement with TV. From the newest WON

Quote

Regarding this week’s TV, Tony Khan wrote the Battle Royal along with input from The Young Bucks, BJ Whitmer and QT Marshall. Khan wrote it with Marshall and Whitmer as the assistants and the Bucks ran the point position on it and they explained it to the other 18 guys in detail and we’re told nobody missed a planned spot. Chris Jericho and Dean Malenko laid out the post-match of Jericho-Moxley. It was Khan’s decision to turn the lights out before Darby Allin came out. Kenny Omega was in charge of both the Kris Statlander match and his own tag match while Cody was in charge of his match

 

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2 hours ago, AxB said:

With the form Alex Shelley's been in lately (and Kushida contracted to WWE) hopefully this means another run for the MCMGs. Maybe even in AEW, considering the only good bit of the Bucks' TNA run was their Motor City feud.

I'm here for it. Shelley has been awesome since deciding not to retire and teaming with Sabin or not it would be great to see him in AEW. The only issue with that I could think of is the tag scene there getting kind of bloated (especially if The Revival show up) with none of the younger, more homegrown teams getting a chance to stand out.

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3 hours ago, AxB said:

With the form Alex Shelley's been in lately (and Kushida contracted to WWE) hopefully this means another run for the MCMGs. Maybe even in AEW, considering the only good bit of the Bucks' TNA run was their Motor City feud.

Give me the Motor City Machine Guns in AEW, bloated tag division or not. Any company could use another veteran team like the MCMG's. I've had a feeling that they would have been signed if Shelley hadn't briefly retired and Sabin hadn't been injured again.

Matt Sydal is another vet I would have loved to see in AEW. His run as the obnoxious yoga practitioner was one of the best runs of his career.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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6 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I believe the explanation for the New Breed is

"These two guys are claiming to be from the future. They may be goofs but they are good wrestlers."

Same with booking the Mummy in SMW. The announcers did not say it was a real mummy, they said it was a guy dressed as a mummy. 

But people that dont like Cornette are going to try and come up with anything to discredit any of his valid criticisms. 

Cornette also booked an angle where a Satanic dominatrix and her cult summoned a literal demon from Hell out of the Ohio River. It wasn't presented as someone pretending to be a demon--they aired video of the summoning. This happened in the year 2000. 

 

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