supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, AxB said: Well, Ladder matches predate Foley's career, and there was the Snuka cage dive spot that inspired him. So it's possible that if he never existed, the state of Wrestling would be the same except we'd all think of Sabu as a godlike genius of innovation, and The Undertaker as a guy who had plodding matches with Superheavyweights for a few years and retired young because he was bored of it. Oh, and Triple H would have never gotten over. Those things happened, but Foley made us expect those things from those matches. There was a long time between Snuka and Foley. After Snuka jumped off the cage you expected Snuka to jump of the cage. After Foley, almost every cage match ended with someone taking a big bump off the cage. You went from expecting something like that once every couple of years to twice on the same show, because of Foley. He is like Henry Ford, he didn't invent the car, but he is the reason everyone has a car. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, supremebve said: Those things happened, but Foley made us expect those things from those matches. There was a long time between Snuka and Foley. After Snuka jumped off the cage you expected Snuka to jump of the cage. After Foley, almost every cage match ended with someone taking a big bump off the cage. You went from expecting something like that once every couple of years to twice on the same show, because of Foley. He is like Henry Ford, he didn't invent the car, but he is the reason everyone has a car. I would argue that Michaels also helped a lot as much someone who was never in ECW unlike Funk, Sabu, and others who were there when they finally got on PPV. I have never watched IYH Badd Blood in full ever due to never feeling comfortable watching an event with the Pillman thing in the air. I just finally watched the Cell match some months back. Let me tell you something: Shawn Michaels literally allowed the Undertaker to beat the ever loving shit out of him and bumped from here to Toledo for Taker. Nevermind GIGGING while he is going up into the air off a slingshot. I'm still trying to figure where he got the blade from (his handwrap?). Funny thing is...you can probably attribute that to Foley as well cause thirteen months earlier, Shawn had a coming out party of sorts vs. Mankind at the Spectrum with the IYH Mind Games match. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I would argue that Michaels also helped a lot as much someone who was never in ECW unlike Funk, Sabu, and others who were there when they finally got on PPV. I have never watched IYH Badd Blood in full ever due to never feeling comfortable watching an event with the Pillman thing in the air. I just finally watched the Cell match some months back. Let me tell you something: Shawn Michaels literally allowed the Undertaker to beat the ever loving shit out of him and bumped from here to Toledo for Taker. Nevermind GIGGING while he is going up into the air off a slingshot. I'm still trying to figure where he got the blade from (his handwrap?). Funny thing is...you can probably attribute that to Foley as well cause thirteen months earlier, Shawn had a coming out party of sorts vs. Mankind at the Spectrum with the IYH Mind Games match. Shawn Michaels gets negative points because he bailed on the match ending top rope back drop to the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Hell of a segment, the Festival of Friendship. Cant believe it's turned three. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobholly138 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 9:44 PM, Cobra Commander said: actual headline from the Jackson Clarion-Ledger (behind their paywall): "Mississippi gave Ted Dibiase $2M in welfare money" (it involves the Brett Dibiase indicted for embezzlement story and Ted's ministry) We may have found a wrestling family crime story as good as the Windham family counterfeiting ring story. If what is rumored is true this embezzlement ring is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobholly138 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 23 hours ago, Cobra Commander said: yeah, I didn't pass the bar or anything, but I suspect that you don't just get $2M from the state without having some concept that this isn't normal. Also sorta concerning that $4.15M worth of embezzlement (for the entire case that Brett Dibiase and friends is caught up in) is only *one* of the biggest embezzlement cases in state history as opposed to the biggest. It seems like it should be difficult to steal $4M from Mississippi multiple times. A friend of mine's dad managed to embezzle close to 1 million from Jackson County MS back in the early 90s. MS is fairly corrupt. But stories about the corruption rarely make national news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Meant to post sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapRef41N93W Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) Interesting comment from Minoru Suzuki (from a recent interview on njpw1972.com). Quote Suzuki: So what should we do with these titles? Why is the US title called that? Why Intercontinental? They’re distinctions, right? So distinguish. Let’s all understand where we’re at. The IWGP Heavyweight Championship is the number one belt for everyone. Intercontinental, that should only be between wrestlers from different continents. Japanese guy versus a European guy. America vs Australia. Whatever. US, only defend it in America. NEVER, just heavyweights versus juniors. That gives us some clear distinctions. I completely agree with him, and I think this reasoning extends beyond NJPW (hence my posting it here rather than the Japan folder). It always bothers me when a lower-tier title has no clear reason to exist other than to provide another thing to build feuds around. I realize that is the actual reason titles exist (outside of kayfabe, anyway), but I appreciate it when some effort is made to draw clear lines between one title and another and/or establish where the title's prestige comes from. I've never followed ROH closely, but I've always thought the Pure title was a neat idea for this reason. Cool that that they're bringing it back. Edited February 15, 2020 by MapRef41N93W 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edwin Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Barnett's top 10. Hawk is such an odd addition to that list. He maybe the first person I've ever seen have him in their top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, Edwin said: Barnett's top 10. Hawk is such an odd addition to that list. He maybe the first person I've ever seen have him in their top 10. 1. Josh Barnett is a bit out there. 2. Hawk worked a ton in Japan. 3. Hawk had a rep as being a tough guy. 4. Coming out to "Iron Man" and Barnett being the age where that would have had a big impact on him growing up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 The thing some people forget about Foley: if you made a list of the 10 greatest promo guys in wrestling history he would definitely be on that list. I am still of the opinion that his anti-hardcore promos in ECW were the greatest promos in wrestling history. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka-to Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 27 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: 1. Josh Barnett is a bit out there. 2. Hawk worked a ton in Japan. 3. Hawk had a rep as being a tough guy. 4. Coming out to "Iron Man" and Barnett being the age where that would have had a big impact on him growing up. Super Vader, not NJ Big Van Vader or every where else Vader, just U-Inter.. Dean Malenko could do everything, going back to the thread somewhere here about versatile wrestlers like Norman Smiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Josh Barnett plays Magic: the Gathering. I like Josh Barnett. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1979- 82 Bob Backlund mixed with 90's heel Bob would be the monster champ in any promotion going today. Backlund was a working machine who did his best work with other talented guys. And he was the guy who destroyed Stan Hansen in a cage at MSG cause Skaaland told Bob that Vince Sr. said , "Eat him up." and Stan couldn't do a thing to stop it. Imagine wrestling machine Bob with the heel character, that'd be money nowadays. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 hours ago, supremebve said: Those things happened, but Foley made us expect those things from those matches. There was a long time between Snuka and Foley. After Snuka jumped off the cage you expected Snuka to jump of the cage. After Foley, almost every cage match ended with someone taking a big bump off the cage. You went from expecting something like that once every couple of years to twice on the same show, because of Foley. He is like Henry Ford, he didn't invent the car, but he is the reason everyone has a car. The only times I can recall Snuka jumping off the cage are against Backlund, Muraco, and in WCW when he concussed Jarrett. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I was sorta confused that during his interview on BATB 95, he was talking about being from the streets of Los Angeles. Clearly, Vader forgot he was from the Rocky Mountains. HE'S FROM THE ENTIRE ROCKY MOUNTAIN RANGE! ...given how often they talked about how he was from the Colorado Rockies on commentary, just assumed that sometime in 1995, they traded him to the Dodgers. 8 hours ago, Eivion said: Honestly I would probably go with Trish or Molly. Given the nature- it could be better or worse than possible with timing. Molly would be VERY good in 2020 (she'd likely project as Bayley if Bayley could cut a promo), but Trish would look far worse in 2020 than she was (there's no doubt in my mind- Trish would end up the same as Alexa Bliss in this era, for every benefit and weakness.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said: Molly would be VERY good in 2020 (she'd likely project as Bayley if Bayley could cut a promo), but Trish would look far worse in 2020 than she was (there's no doubt in my mind- Trish would end up the same as Alexa Bliss in this era, for every benefit and weakness.) Molly would at least have a nice run in NXT. This might be my memory playing tricks on me, but I think Trish is a better worker than Bliss along with being as good if not better as a character. She is also a bit more charismatic. I think she would see more success than Alexa, especially with women like the NXT Horsewomen to help lead her along. Of course the best thing would be Trish with the experience and athletic ability she had in her last match combined with the personality of her youth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Johnny Sorrow said: The only times I can recall Snuka jumping off the cage are against Backlund, Muraco, and in WCW when he concussed Jarrett. That whole week leading up to Souled Out was just absolutely wild. Bret and Jarrett as World and US champion both off the PPV, with Russo being fired because he wanted to put it on Tank Abbott man those were part of my formative IWC years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Nevermind GIGGING while he is going up into the air off a slingshot. I'm still trying to figure where he got the blade from (his handwrap?). The miracle blade job. Still never figured it out. Tangentially, I rewatched that Race v Funk match on the NWA YouTube channel t’other night and I’ve no had how or where Funk bladed to lead into the stoppage. I kinda want to say Race hardway’d him like the pro he was 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I gotta go with Randy Savage. His mic work could talk you into any building in any era. He brought the intensity and unpredictability needed to keep you guessing. Might be the ultimate in making you sympathetic to the cause whether he was a face or heel. His elbow drop is still iconic and would be just as massively over today. Randy Savage just might be the greatest performer in history. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Edwin said: Barnett's top 10. Hawk is such an odd addition to that list. He maybe the first person I've ever seen have him in their top 10. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 8 hours ago, The Natural said: Hell of a segment, the Festival of Friendship. Cant believe it's turned three. Had a similar feeling when I read that Joe has been in NXT / WWE for 5 years this summer. I have no idea where that time has went. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 8 hours ago, sabremike said: The thing some people forget about Foley: if you made a list of the 10 greatest promo guys in wrestling history he would definitely be on that list. I am still of the opinion that his anti-hardcore promos in ECW were the greatest promos in wrestling history. That makes for an interesting topic. I have this as Mick Foley's best promo: NSFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 18 hours ago, supremebve said: If you could take one wrestler, dead or alive, from any era, in their prime and drop them into today's WWE, who would you choose and why? Somebody I hate, I guess, because I certainly wouldn't want to condemn one of my faves to today's WWE. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edwin Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: 1. Josh Barnett is a bit out there. 2. Hawk worked a ton in Japan. 3. Hawk had a rep as being a tough guy. 4. Coming out to "Iron Man" and Barnett being the age where that would have had a big impact on him growing up. I get that, the addition of Hawk to his list was odd because Josh is a Catch guy who has a list full of mostly other guys with Catch backgrounds or who worked shoot style at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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