PetrolCB Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 hours ago, supremebve said: Vince would find out he's from Compton and this would be his entire gimmick. Which reminds me of doo-rag era Vince, as ECW champion. That was great, I don't care what anyone says otherwise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Just now, Zakk_Sabbath said: Eh yea maybe, but if he were in today's WWE, there would be doctors at ringside, and crash pads under everything, plus concussion protocol. The thing is, they do that for everyone else as well so how the fuck would he get over when he got originally got over without all that? Foley got over cause he was a legit madman. Nobody wants to see PG Cactus Jack. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, PetrolCB said: Which reminds me of doo-rag era Vince, as ECW champion. That was great, I don't care what anyone says otherwise. That was more hacky than Bania's material. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: That was more hacky than Bania's material. You're just jealous that you don't look this cool. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 It's Vince McMahon pissing on what little was left of ECW's maggot-infested reanimated corpse. If Eddie were endorsing it, I'd assume someone hacked into his account. Such a good angle. A shame it was done in service of the evergreen fool's errand of getting Bobby Lashley over as a top babyface. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontaneous Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I just remember that odd ppv of Lashley vs Vince in a street fight and Cena vs Great Khali. Oh 2007 WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: The thing is, they do that for everyone else as well so how the fuck would he get over when he got originally got over without all that? Foley got over cause he was a legit madman. Nobody wants to see PG Cactus Jack That's a really good point I was thinking from a safety perspective but the reality is the danger and the damage really is a huge part of his presentation, even as far back as Continental when he refers to doing the Nestea plunge in the first book. With that, I change my answer firmly to Bret. Edit: I do want to make the point that Foley was pretty damn good even without all that bullshit though, so even though I concede my original point, it's not a knock on him as a straight up worker necessarily. All things considered, if The Fiend can work today, I think the original Mankind character probably could too Edited February 15, 2020 by Zakk_Sabbath 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: I definitely want to make the argument for Bret, but I think Cactus Jack works in any era. People love a madman. Foley is a great answer. With that said, I don't know how much of the current style exists if Foley doesn't exist beforehand. There are so many matches that don't really work the same way without Foley being crazy enough to take some of these insane bumps. Don't get me wrong, they seem to have figured out how to make them safer since Foley broke his body, but I don't know if people even think of some of this stuff if it wasn't for him. What would a Shane McMahon match look like if it wasn't for Foley? What would a Hell in a Cell match look like? When was the last cage match of any kind where someone didn't take some sort of absurd bump? They put on multiple PPVs based on matches where we expect some sort of death defying bump,and I don't think that exists without Foley not being afraid to die for the fans. Without Foley modern day wrestling would be missing a chromosome. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: That's a really good point I was thinking from a safety perspective but the reality is the danger and the damage really is a huge part of his presentation, even as far back as Continental when he refers to doing the Nestea plunge in the first book. With that, I change my answer firmly to Bret. I don’t remember him in Continental. Memphis, World Class and Global, yes. Was that when Gilbert and Heyman were booking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, odessasteps said: I don’t remember him in Continental. Memphis, World Class and Global, yes. Was that when Gilbert and Heyman were booking? It's been 1000 years since I've read his first book so I may be misremembering but I really could've sworn there was a whole passage about him being there for a time and staying at Ron Fuller's house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I totally don’t remember that. Might have to do some research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: That's a really good point I was thinking from a safety perspective but the reality is the danger and the damage really is a huge part of his presentation, even as far back as Continental when he refers to doing the Nestea plunge in the first book. With that, I change my answer firmly to Bret. Edit: I do want to make the point that Foley was pretty damn good even without all that bullshit though, so even though I concede my original point, it's not a knock on him as a straight up worker necessarily. All things considered, if The Fiend can work today, I think the original Mankind character probably could too One of my top 5 moments from the Monday Night Wars: Now imagine if Jack was this one dimensional goofy, silly fake micromanaged character in 2020 and without Jim Ross talking about all the crazy shit he did in Japan (""For a man who has wrestled on nails and barbed wire and set himself on fire, this will be a day at Central Park"). It would have never gotten this over. Edited February 15, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: One of my top 5 moments from the Monday Night Wars: Now imagine if Jack was this one dimension goofy, silly fake micromanaged character in 2020 and without Jim Ross talking about all the crazy shit he did in Japan (""For a man who has wrestled on nails and barbed wire and set himself on fire, this will be a day at Central Park"). It would have never gotten this over. I honestly can't think of another wrestler who single handedly elevated another worker's work more than Foley did for HHH. I'm not a complete HHH hater, but he's nowhere close to a favorite of mine...unless he's wrestling Foley. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, supremebve said: If you could take one wrestler, dead or alive, from any era, in their prime and drop them into today's WWE, who would you choose and why? Flair is the easy choice, because he's Flair. He can talk, he can work, and he was always willing to put his body on the line. He's not fair. Steve Austin and The Rock are too recent, they are still the two wrestlers that the WWE wishes were young/desperate enough to come back. Austin and Rock, especially if you’re talking prime, were over 20 years ago at this point. Edited February 15, 2020 by JonnyLaw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) I think I missed how the conversation over wrestlers from generations past faring in the modern product, but the one I keep thinking about lately is how Bob Backlund circa 1978-1982 would fare in 2020. I think athletic freak/strongman grappler Bob Backlund would be a major cult draw in today's indie scene, seeing him grapple with folks like Thatcher and participating on shows like Bloodsport and WxW Ambition, and being strong enough to pull off strongman spots against folks like Walter and Jeff Cobb, and being the guy that grounds flippy dudes and forces them to adapt to him, I think he would be a buzzworthy guy now. Maybe not a draw/main eventer in modern WWE, but maybe as a hired gun assassin in AEW, or the designated shooter in an NJPW stable, and definitely someone that would shine at BOLA weekend and other indie showcase type events, etc. Hell, the dude still seems like he's in good enough shape that I could see him pulling off a 10-minute exhibition-style grapping-oriented match at Bloodsport in 2020 Barnett booked him. EDIT: ah shit, I now saw the original post saying "today's WWE" but fuck it I'll still be fantasy booking 1981 Bob Backlund on Bloodsport 2020. Edited February 15, 2020 by clintthecrippler 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, supremebve said: I honestly can't think of another wrestler who single handedly elevated another worker's work more than Foley did for HHH. I'm not a complete HHH hater, but he's nowhere close to a favorite of mine...unless he's wrestling Foley. He legitimized him because the blue blood thing was way too New Generation, and also, he wasn't exactly having these wonderful matches. He was just a guy with a great look and great body. Getting Chyna to start 1997 helped, but feuding with Foley later that year put him over the top. It would have been bizarre if he was out there during the surreal shoot comment back-and-forth between Bret and Shawn if he was still the same guy that was in the dog house for the Curtain Call. He would have been just Shawn's mid card lackey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said: Austin and Rock, especially if you’re talking prime, were over 20 years ago at this point. Yep, and if either of them decided to come back and wrestle full time, Vince would push them over everyone currently on the roster. And he'd be 100% justified. John Cena had a good run, but there was not a single moment in Cena's run that could compare to the average Raw during Austin and The Rock's peak. Saying they'd be welcome in the current WWE is like saying that Michael Jordan would be welcome in the NBA. Sure, you'd be right, but it wouldn't be an interesting conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 By the way, I'm catching up on NXT and I just heard Mauro call Donovan Dijokovic "Heavy Double D," that is not something you should call a man...or a woman for that matter. Maybe you shouldn't call anyone that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Foley is a great answer. With that said, I don't know how much of the current style exists if Foley doesn't exist beforehand. There are so many matches that don't really work the same way without Foley being crazy enough to take some of these insane bumps. Don't get me wrong, they seem to have figured out how to make them safer since Foley broke his body, but I don't know if people even think of some of this stuff if it wasn't for him. What would a Shane McMahon match look like if it wasn't for Foley? What would a Hell in a Cell match look like? When was the last cage match of any kind where someone didn't take some sort of absurd bump? They put on multiple PPVs based on matches where we expect some sort of death defying bump,and I don't think that exists without Foley not being afraid to die for the fans. Without Foley modern day wrestling would be missing a chromosome. Well, Ladder matches predate Foley's career, and there was the Snuka cage dive spot that inspired him. So it's possible that if he never existed, the state of Wrestling would be the same except we'd all think of Sabu as a godlike genius of innovation, and The Undertaker as a guy who had plodding matches with Superheavyweights for a few years and retired young because he was bored of it. Oh, and Triple H would have never gotten over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I have just been rereading Foleys book and forgot about the part where Vince brought him in and Foley turned him down (or was planning to) because Vince didn’t want to bring him in as Cactus Jack. And I’m wondering does Jack get over in the feud with Undertaker as much as Mankind does? Does Vince get behind him as much if it’s not his creation (A year or so later, Foley proposed a match with Vader playing off their history and Vince balked because he didn’t want to build off non-WWF history and instead teamed them up, writing new history as he said)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: It's Vince McMahon pissing on what little was left of ECW's maggot-infested reanimated corpse. If Eddie were endorsing it, I'd assume someone hacked into his account. Such a good angle. A shame it was done in service of the evergreen fool's errand of getting Bobby Lashley over as a top babyface. The original ECW was near and dear to my heart, so you're damn right I hated its bastard offspring. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, supremebve said: By the way, I'm catching up on NXT and I just heard Mauro call Donovan Dijokovic "Heavy Double D," that is not something you should call a man...or a woman for that matter. Maybe you shouldn't call anyone that. He might have been making a Heavy D reference if he's into the Old School Hip Hop. And Dijak is a big guy - although he's not the heavier guy in a feud with Keith Lee, plus he's lean, so it's not like him weighing a lot is his featured physical attribute. Mauro likes to say things. Lots and lots of things, he likes to say. His mind tends to runs away with itself and his mouth rushes to keep up. It's bad because when you know he's a guy who doesn't take criticism well, you feel like you should just be supportive. But his WWE commentary does make the show less enjoyable than if you're watching on mute. So hopefully he keeps his vanity searches (if he does them) to social media and stays off of message boards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coletti Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 The correct answer to who you'd have from another era here and now is always going to be Eddie Guerrero. Fuck, even just a timeline where he doesn't pass so young, let alone Eddie in his prime. 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, caley said: I have just been rereading Foleys book and forgot about the part where Vince brought him in and Foley turned him down (or was planning to) because Vince didn’t want to bring him in as Cactus Jack. And I’m wondering does Jack get over in the feud with Undertaker as much as Mankind does? Does Vince get behind him as much if it’s not his creation (A year or so later, Foley proposed a match with Vader playing off their history and Vince balked because he didn’t want to build off non-WWF history and instead teamed them up, writing new history as he said)? If they're working in the Northeast a lot, it definitely would but we also wouldn't have the three faces of Foley. I think Vince and the stupidity of Kevin Dunn thinking no one would know who Cactus Jack was worked out in his favor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, christopher.annino said: The correct answer to who you'd have from another era here and now is always going to be Eddie Guerrero. Fuck, even just a timeline where he doesn't pass so young, let alone Eddie in his prime. There is the six man where he tagged with the Steiners in ECW in 1995 (against Scorpio, Jack, and Malenko IIRC) where he fucked up a Hurricanrana during a triple team spot. He was moving SO FUCKING FAST he didn't give the crowd a one single solitary chance to say YOU FUCKED UP. I never seen something like that. He was working for the other five guys in the match. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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